New Mamiya 645 may influence DSLR prices

Bryan Olson wrote:

Stacey wrote:
Bryan Olson wrote:
Stacey wrote:
Maybe this will shut up some of the morons posting the "Dslr's
are taking over medformat" garbage that get's posted almost
daily now in the film newsgroups.

This new Mamiya *is* a digital SLR, so I expect it will re-enforce
the position.

Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging
about.

Well now, the base of the issue is what the people you call
"morons" meant. Are they really claiming, "almost daily now"
that "the APS size digital rebel" cameras "are taking over
medium format"? I had not seen that.

Nor have I. But the quotient of morons making blanket statements remains
high.

--

John McWilliams

Bryan Olson wrote:

Stacey wrote:
Bryan Olson wrote:
Stacey wrote:
Maybe this will shut up some of the morons posting the "Dslr's
are taking over medformat" garbage that get's posted almost
daily now in the film newsgroups.

This new Mamiya *is* a digital SLR, so I expect it will re-enforce
the position.

Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging
about.

Well now, the base of the issue is what the people you call
"morons" meant. Are they really claiming, "almost daily now"
that "the APS size digital rebel" cameras "are taking over
medium format"? I had not seen that.

Nor have I. But the quotient of morons making blanket statements remains
high.

--

John McWilliams

~Darrell Larose~ wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

deryck lant wrote:


The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured
to sell
at around 10K US Dollars:



http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html

If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe
influence
Nikon as well.


Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any.


Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in
volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the
prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have
to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works
like that...

The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price
point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different
class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens
systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera
is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all
at the chip level.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

~Darrell Larose~ wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

deryck lant wrote:


The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured
to sell
at around 10K US Dollars:



http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html

If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe
influence
Nikon as well.


Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any.


Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in
volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the
prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have
to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works
like that...

The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price
point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different
class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens
systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera
is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all
at the chip level.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Stacey wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:





http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html

If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe
influence
Nikon as well.


I wish you would be careful with your snipping. I did NOT write the above, and
my opinion is actually the contrary.


As well as making the images taken with those DSLR's look as pathetic as
35mm images do compared to MF film cameras. Maybe this will shut up some of
the morons posting the "Dslr's are taking over medformat" garbage that
get's posted almost daily now in the film newsgroups. Somehow I doubt it
will.

Afraid not. While the MF's with 22 MP backs enjoy both more detail and better
SNR, the gap is narrower with each passing season. A lot of work that is
currently done on MF can be done just as well on the better 35mm frame digtital
cameras. Not all, but a lot. See the "encroachment" / 1Ds MkII threads.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Stacey wrote:

Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging
about.

Time you though more about the 1Ds Mk II (full frame, 18 Mpix).


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Stacey wrote:

Like DUH, I meant the APS size digtial rebel ones people keep bragging
about.

Time you though more about the 1Ds Mk II (full frame, 18 Mpix).


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne wrote:
~Darrell Larose~ wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

deryck lant wrote:


The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured
to sell
at around 10K US Dollars:



http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html

If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe
influence
Nikon as well.


Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any.


Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in
volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the
prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have
to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works
like that...

The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price
point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different
class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens
systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera
is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all
at the chip level.

Cheers,
Alan

I'm not so sure about the effect of pix density. Doesn't it
depend on what you want to do with the image.

Let us say that one wants to print an 8x10. Then a 4x5
image only has to be enlarged by a linear factor of two.
The resulting pix density (assuming one could print it)
would be the original divided by 4.

On the other hand the long dimension of a 35mm shot is
about 1.25 inches. If that is to be enlarged to 10 inches
that's a linear expansion of 8 times. The resulting final
pix density will be the original divided by 64.

Clearly the 4x5 image will end up giving the 8x10 the greater
pix density -- even with a somewhat less pixel density in
the sensor.

For other uses the calculation might well be quite different.

I do not know the actual sensor dimensions a 4x5 camera might
have. So my "calculations" above are only suggestive. But
the point remains, it is the final use to which the image will
be put that counts.

---- Paul J. Gans

In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne wrote:
~Darrell Larose~ wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

deryck lant wrote:


The new 22 Meg Mamiya ZD 645 format DSLR with 36x48mm imager is rumoured
to sell
at around 10K US Dollars:



http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/ev...iya/ZD_en.html

If so it will dampen down the price of the new 1DsMkII Canon and maybe
influence
Nikon as well.


Not sure about the effect on prices for "35mm" format DSLR's, if any.


Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in
volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the
prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have
to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works
like that...

The notion is that if a high end camera such as the 645 is at a certain price
point, then it will have downward pressure on the price point in a different
class of camera. Since they are different classes of camera and different lens
systems, etc., there will be 0 effect. Further the pix density of the MF camera
is less than that of the 'best' 35mm digital ... so really no comparison at all
at the chip level.

Cheers,
Alan

I'm not so sure about the effect of pix density. Doesn't it
depend on what you want to do with the image.

Let us say that one wants to print an 8x10. Then a 4x5
image only has to be enlarged by a linear factor of two.
The resulting pix density (assuming one could print it)
would be the original divided by 4.

On the other hand the long dimension of a 35mm shot is
about 1.25 inches. If that is to be enlarged to 10 inches
that's a linear expansion of 8 times. The resulting final
pix density will be the original divided by 64.

Clearly the 4x5 image will end up giving the 8x10 the greater
pix density -- even with a somewhat less pixel density in
the sensor.

For other uses the calculation might well be quite different.

I do not know the actual sensor dimensions a 4x5 camera might
have. So my "calculations" above are only suggestive. But
the point remains, it is the final use to which the image will
be put that counts.

---- Paul J. Gans

In rec.photo.equipment.35mm ~Darrell Larose~ wrote:

Sensor prices rely on the economy of scale, if the Mamiya sensor sells in
volume, whether in a Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, the end result is the
prices will come down. If this sensor was split in half we would then have
to 24x36mm sensors. This is a simplistic view, but silicon sort of works
like that...


By and far, sensor price depends on sensor size and not demand. At least
until you get the volume well into 100s of thousands.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++