PQ Stain

Patrick,
I did some prints with the new PQ staining developer last night and
everything you said was correct. The prints print more contrasty than
they appear by eye. It's also very, very active (10% Q and 0.25gms Pheni
in 100mls of Propylene Glycol) develops in Borax Carbonate in about
5mins for normal contrast with APx 100. Anyway the thing I am writing
about is the amazing tones you get with this stuff! The grain is ok (not
as fine as in the p-Aminophenol/Vit C Propylene Glycol) but I cant get
over those tones, a 12x16in print from 35mm looks like medium format
quality~!
Thanks again,
Nicholas

nicholas wrote:

Patrick,
I did some prints with the new PQ staining developer last night and
everything you said was correct. The prints print more contrasty than
they appear by eye. It's also very, very active (10% Q and 0.25gms Pheni
in 100mls of Propylene Glycol) develops in Borax Carbonate in about
5mins for normal contrast with APx 100. Anyway the thing I am writing
about is the amazing tones you get with this stuff! The grain is ok (not
as fine as in the p-Aminophenol/Vit C Propylene Glycol) but I cant get
over those tones, a 12x16in print from 35mm looks like medium format
quality~!
Thanks again,
Nicholas
Woops, that was supposed to be a private email! Dooh! Never mind at
least it went to the right group - Ha.

Mr. Nicholas

The FBI, CIA, Mossad and KGB all together are very much interested in
your covert activities.

Would you pls explain (under oath) why Pglicol and not alcohol?



nicholas wrote in
:

nicholas wrote:

Patrick,
I did some prints with the new PQ staining developer last night and
everything you said was correct. The prints print more contrasty than
they appear by eye. It's also very, very active (10% Q and 0.25gms
Pheni in 100mls of Propylene Glycol) develops in Borax Carbonate in
about 5mins for normal contrast with APx 100. Anyway the thing I am
writing about is the amazing tones you get with this stuff! The grain
is ok (not as fine as in the p-Aminophenol/Vit C Propylene Glycol)
but I cant get over those tones, a 12x16in print from 35mm looks like
medium format quality~!
Thanks again,
Nicholas
Woops, that was supposed to be a private email! Dooh! Never mind at
least it went to the right group - Ha.

Thanks, Nicholas

Jorge

"poozled(nospamthankyoumaam)(" "poozled(nospamthankyoumaam)
wrote in :


Using Propylene Glycol assures me that the developing agents will not
ionise. The PQ staining developer mixes clear. Iso is easier to prepare
but AFAIK does ionise developing agents eventually, perhaps because it
is hydroscopic(?). Glycerine shouldn't ionise, but have you ever tried
using that gloopy stuff? I have, and its a PIA to deal with. Obviously
because there are no traditional "preservatives" in these developers it
is important to factor in the longevity of the mixture in.

Jorge Omar wrote:
Mr. Nicholas

The FBI, CIA, Mossad and KGB all together are very much interested in
your covert activities.

Would you pls explain (under oath) why Pglicol and not alcohol?



nicholas wrote in
:


nicholas wrote:


Patrick,
I did some prints with the new PQ staining developer last night and
everything you said was correct. The prints print more contrasty than
they appear by eye. It's also very, very active (10% Q and 0.25gms
Pheni in 100mls of Propylene Glycol) develops in Borax Carbonate in
about 5mins for normal contrast with APx 100. Anyway the thing I am
writing about is the amazing tones you get with this stuff! The grain
is ok (not as fine as in the p-Aminophenol/Vit C Propylene Glycol)
but I cant get over those tones, a 12x16in print from 35mm looks like
medium format quality~!
Thanks again,
Nicholas

Woops, that was supposed to be a private email! Dooh! Never mind at
least it went to the right group - Ha.



Using Propylene Glycol assures me that the developing agents will not
ionise. The PQ staining developer mixes clear. Iso is easier to prepare
but AFAIK does ionise developing agents eventually, perhaps because it
is hydroscopic(?). Glycerine shouldn't ionise, but have you ever tried
using that gloopy stuff? I have, and its a PIA to deal with. Obviously
because there are no traditional "preservatives" in these developers it
is important to factor in the longevity of the mixture in.

nicholas wrote:

Patrick,
I did some prints with the new PQ staining developer last night and
everything you said was correct. The prints print more contrasty than
they appear by eye. It's also very, very active (10% Q and 0.25gms Pheni
in 100mls of Propylene Glycol) develops in Borax Carbonate in about
5mins for normal contrast with APx 100. Anyway the thing I am writing
about is the amazing tones you get with this stuff! The grain is ok (not
as fine as in the p-Aminophenol/Vit C Propylene Glycol) but I cant get
over those tones, a 12x16in print from 35mm looks like medium format
quality~!
Thanks again,

Nicholas,

You may as well tell everyone what dilution and amounts of borax and
carbonate you used. I just got and signed the contract for the article
in Photo Techniques next issue, but I didn't describe the use of
borax-carbonate. Makes me feel good that you like the results.

We have been keeping the wrong thing away from developer in our efforts
to preserve stock solutions. We worry about air, when we should be
worrying about water. Keep the water away until the last minute.
Dissolve hydroquinone or ascorbic acid or catechol or pyrogallol and/or
phenidone in propylene glycol for the stock. I find it necessary to heat
the mixture in order to dissolve the dry chemicals and to drive out
water that may be in the glycol. This won't work with most alcohols
which would boil away before the water. There is a method of dehydrating
alcohol with anhydrous copper sulphate, but who wants to take a chance
on having traces of copper in the developer?

Patrick Gainer wrote:

Nicholas,

You may as well tell everyone what dilution and amounts of borax and
carbonate you used. I just got and signed the contract for the article
in Photo Techniques next issue, but I didn't describe the use of
borax-carbonate. Makes me feel good that you like the results.


Really, it is an outstanding developer in those terms I described
before, even the grain is very fine! Compared to the p-Aminophenol
version it's difficult to say, Apx 100 is so grain-free in that brew
it's hard to see any grain @ 12x16in (the largest size my enlarger
normally allows).

_Stock_ _Developer_:
10gms (1TBS + 1/4tsp) of Hydroquinone
..25gms (1/8tsp) of Phenidone
Heated to dissolve in 100mls Propylene Glycol (use a water bath)

Dilute 1:50 to make working solution with
4gms of Borax (1tsp) &
5gms of Sodium Carbonate (1tsp)
per litre of working solution.

5 1/2 minutes with Apx 100 gave soft-ish looking but contrasty printing
negatives. 1min initial agitation, 5 inversions every minute thereafter.

I was thinking about the water in the developer issue before when Jorge
asked that question why not use another alcohol and remembering that
Isopropyl Alc takes on water in the atmosphere is probably one reason
that Phenidone dissolved in it goes "off" eventually...

Patrick

I have easy access to 98%~99% pure ethanol (I believe it's not purified
through copper - CaO looks more like it if I remember right).

How would that compare to Pglicol in your opinion?

Besides, I would mix a stock alkali solution also.

Thanks,

Jorge


Patrick Gainer wrote in
:


Nicholas,

You may as well tell everyone what dilution and amounts of borax and
carbonate you used. I just got and signed the contract for the article
in Photo Techniques next issue, but I didn't describe the use of
borax-carbonate. Makes me feel good that you like the results.

We have been keeping the wrong thing away from developer in our
efforts to preserve stock solutions. We worry about air, when we
should be worrying about water. Keep the water away until the last
minute. Dissolve hydroquinone or ascorbic acid or catechol or
pyrogallol and/or phenidone in propylene glycol for the stock. I find
it necessary to heat the mixture in order to dissolve the dry
chemicals and to drive out water that may be in the glycol. This won't
work with most alcohols which would boil away before the water. There
is a method of dehydrating alcohol with anhydrous copper sulphate, but
who wants to take a chance on having traces of copper in the
developer?

I did read Patrick's item a few weeks ago with some skepticism, but
this really does sound interesting. I suppose I've been mixing with
water for so long that this concept seemed strange.

Since your negs look not very contrasty but print with greater than
expected contrast, I assume that they are stained like a pyro neg.
What is the colour of the neg image?

Did you use VC paper?

The reason for my asking is as follows: It used to be said the pyro
negs gave smooth prints because the stain added to the silver grain
(and gaps between grains), leading to good density with minimal
development which of course leads to minimal grain. This was with
graded papers. Nowadays with VC papers it is being said that pyro
gives a built-in soft filter to control highlights, but the effect is
not always desirable, since with VC paper the highlights can look flat
with some subjects.

Have you used PMK? If so, how would you compare PMK with this new
formulation?

Did you do a measurement of film speed?

I'm no chemist, but the formula of propyl glycol looks like an
alcohol. Does it absorb water from the atmosphere? I note that its
boiling point is 150degC, well above that of water and other common
alcohols. So heating it could drive off water as long as it didn't
decompose. The developing agents could also get cooked. How hot can
you make it before any such troubles occur?

Just what I wanted. Yet another developer to obsess over, just when I
thought I had narrowed it down to two.

I've used Patrick's vit C Pglicol, some comments:
One should heath Pglicol to above 100C - Patrick recommends microwave, to
expell all the water.
When it cools to 80C, then add the chemicals.

My personal feeling re speed is that it shall be good (ISO rating or
close) due to phenidone/carbonate+borax alkali (pH equivalent to
metaborate).

No idea re staining - neve used staining devs.

Jorge

(John Stockdale) wrote in
m:

I did read Patrick's item a few weeks ago with some skepticism, but
this really does sound interesting. I suppose I've been mixing with
water for so long that this concept seemed strange.

Since your negs look not very contrasty but print with greater than
expected contrast, I assume that they are stained like a pyro neg.
What is the colour of the neg image?

Did you use VC paper?

The reason for my asking is as follows: It used to be said the pyro
negs gave smooth prints because the stain added to the silver grain
(and gaps between grains), leading to good density with minimal
development which of course leads to minimal grain. This was with
graded papers. Nowadays with VC papers it is being said that pyro
gives a built-in soft filter to control highlights, but the effect is
not always desirable, since with VC paper the highlights can look flat
with some subjects.

Have you used PMK? If so, how would you compare PMK with this new
formulation?

Did you do a measurement of film speed?

I'm no chemist, but the formula of propyl glycol looks like an
alcohol. Does it absorb water from the atmosphere? I note that its
boiling point is 150degC, well above that of water and other common
alcohols. So heating it could drive off water as long as it didn't
decompose. The developing agents could also get cooked. How hot can
you make it before any such troubles occur?

Just what I wanted. Yet another developer to obsess over, just when I
thought I had narrowed it down to two.