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#1
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
My developing and printing sessions have become short. Very short.
But short is better than nothing, and short is all I have time for. I'll develop a couple rolls of 120 and be done, or I'll develop a couple batches of 4x5s and be done, or I'll print one or two negatives and be done and use only a few sheets of paper. Then I'm often not in the darkroom for weeks. By the time I'm back, the fix is past due, according to the label (I think Ilford says one week after dilution). I've been using Ilford rapid, because I'm too rushed to mix my own like I used to. Rather than take a chance I just dump it in my holding bottles for taking to the photo lab for silver removal, and mix new fix. If I test the old film fix with a snip of film and it still clears OK, can I feel safe that no other chemical breakdowns have happened that might adversely impact my film? Is there any way to know if the paper fix (different dilution) is still good and safe? I just hate this wasted capacity and wasted expense. |
#2
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
Joe wrote:
If I test the old film fix with a snip of film and it still clears OK, can I feel safe that no other chemical breakdowns have happened that might adversely impact my film? Is there any way to know if the paper fix (different dilution) is still good and safe? I just hate this wasted capacity and wasted expense. You can do the old film test with paper fixer too. Change the time to match the dilution, e.g. if you dilute film fixer 1:5 and paper fixer 1:10, it should take twice as long to clear film in it. Edwal and others used to make a fixer test solution, I don't know if anyone still does. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 "Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician." (sent to me by a friend) |
#3
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Edwal and others used to make a fixer test solution, I don't know if anyone still does. It's amazing what you can find with google. It's called Edwal Hypo-Check and it's still sold. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 "Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician." (sent to me by a friend) |
#4
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
On Dec 26, 10:39*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote: Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: Edwal and others used to make a fixer test solution, I don't know if anyone still does. It's amazing what you can find with google. It's called Edwal Hypo-Check and it's still sold. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 "Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician." (sent to me by a friend) But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever silver reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for other reasons that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach capacity.... |
#5
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
Joe wrote:
But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever silver reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for other reasons that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach capacity.... It never did when I was developing film. Fixers are acid and therefore do not mold or turn rancid. They do decompose slighlty so you find a percipitate at the bottom of the bottle and some of it sticks. What I used to do was keep a box of cheap coffee filters in the darkroom and when I wanted to develop something, I put one in a funnel, stuck the funnel in a graduated cylinder (or a bottle), shook the fixer well to dislodge anything on the bottom and filtered it before use. I doubt that you have to do it with paper,you could just let any sediment stay in the bottle, but I would not do it with film because I would (probably unjustifiably) that something would stick to the film and not be removed in the wash. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 "Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician." (sent to me by a friend) |
#6
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... Joe wrote: But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever silver reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for other reasons that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach capacity.... It never did when I was developing film. Fixers are acid and therefore do not mold or turn rancid. They do decompose slighlty so you find a percipitate at the bottom of the bottle and some of it sticks. What I used to do was keep a box of cheap coffee filters in the darkroom and when I wanted to develop something, I put one in a funnel, stuck the funnel in a graduated cylinder (or a bottle), shook the fixer well to dislodge anything on the bottom and filtered it before use. I doubt that you have to do it with paper,you could just let any sediment stay in the bottle, but I would not do it with film because I would (probably unjustifiably) that something would stick to the film and not be removed in the wash. Geoff. Edwal fixer checker is a solution of potassium iodide. When there is more than a certain amount of silver complex in the fixer it is caused to precipitate as a white cloud. If the cloud goes back into solution in a second of two the fixer is supposed to be OK but if its permanent the fixer should be tossed. The problem is that the amount of residual silver that can be in fixer that tests good is too much. Also, with time fixer begins to sulfurize. That is the sodium thiosulfate begins to decompose. The acid in acid fixer is the primary cause of this decomposition. The sodium sulfite in the fixer help to protect the thiosulfate from the acid but also performs other duties. Kodak gave the life of standard fixer as about 2 months. I would not stretch it for much more. I don't think Edwal Hypo-Check will test for partially decomposed fixer. However, usually you can smell it because there is usually an odor of sulfur dioxide (sharp smell) and often hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). Also, decomposing hypo tends to be cloudy and some times has a white or yellowish precipitate in the container. This is also true for "rapid" or ammonium thiosulfate fixers. If you work rarely its a good precaution to mix the hypo fresh each time. The best test of a fixer is to fix out a sample of paper or film and treat it in sodium sulfide (not sulfite) tester. A drop or two is placed on a clear area of the film or a white area of the print and allowed to stand a couple of minutes, then rinse off. If the material is completely fixed there will be no stain. The sulfide tones silver halide as readily as metallic silver so will show up anything left by the fixer. The formulas for fixer tester, residual silver tester, and residual hypo tester can all be found in any edition of the _Kodak Black-and-White Darkroom Dataguide_ This is no longer published by Kodak but I think should not be too difficult to obtain used. -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL |
#7
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this ghost
town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-) On Jan 2, 2:15*am, "Richard Knoppow" wrote: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in ... Joe wrote: But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever silver reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for other reasons that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach capacity.... It never did when I was developing film. Fixers are acid and therefore do not mold or turn rancid. They do decompose slighlty so you find a percipitate at the bottom of the bottle and some of it sticks. What I used to do was keep a box of cheap coffee filters in the darkroom and when I wanted to develop something, I put one in a funnel, stuck the funnel in a graduated cylinder (or a bottle), shook the fixer well to dislodge anything on the bottom and filtered it before use. I doubt that you have to do it with paper,you could just let any sediment stay in the bottle, but I would not do it with film because I would (probably unjustifiably) that something would stick to the film and not be removed in the wash. Geoff. * * Edwal fixer checker is a solution of potassium iodide. When there is more than a certain amount of silver complex in the fixer it is caused to precipitate as a white cloud. If the cloud goes back into solution in a second of two the fixer is supposed to be OK but if its permanent the fixer should be tossed. *The problem is that the amount of residual silver that can be in fixer that tests good is too much. * * Also, with time fixer begins to sulfurize. That is the sodium thiosulfate begins to decompose. *The acid in acid fixer is the primary cause of this decomposition. The sodium sulfite in the fixer help to protect the thiosulfate from the acid but also performs other duties. Kodak gave the life of standard fixer as about 2 months. I would not stretch it for much more. *I don't think Edwal Hypo-Check will test for partially decomposed fixer. *However, usually you can smell it because there is usually an odor of sulfur dioxide (sharp smell) and often hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). *Also, decomposing hypo tends to be cloudy and some times has a white or yellowish precipitate in the container. *This is also true for "rapid" or ammonium thiosulfate fixers. * * If you work rarely its a good precaution to mix the hypo fresh each time. * * The best test of a fixer is to fix out a sample of paper or film and treat it in sodium sulfide (not sulfite) tester. A drop or two is placed on a clear area of the film or a white area of the print and allowed to stand a couple of minutes, then rinse off. If the material is completely fixed there will be no stain. *The sulfide tones silver halide as readily as metallic silver so will show up anything left by the fixer. *The formulas for fixer tester, residual silver tester, and residual hypo tester can all be found in any edition of the _Kodak Black-and-White Darkroom Dataguide_ This is no longer published by Kodak but I think should not be too difficult to obtain used. -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL |
#8
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
"Joe" wrote in message ... Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this ghost town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-) Down the drain to the recycler. I still check this and the large-format group. Digital has killed off most of the photo groups and the ISP's are trying to kill off Usenet. I find the web-based groups too scattered. A not quite ghost (yet)... -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL |
#9
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
On Jan 11, 1:27*am, "Richard Knoppow" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message ... Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this ghost town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-) * * Down the drain to the recycler. *I still check this and the large-format group. Digital has killed off most of the photo groups and the ISP's are trying to kill off Usenet. *I find the web-based groups too scattered. * * A not quite ghost (yet)... -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL I was wondering why you don't visit the web groups. I prefer the old plain text format myself because I'm on dialup, but there are ways to narrow the focus on some web forums. At the Large Format Photography Forum (which uses V Bulletin) you can create a search that only includes new posts from the subforums you select, and you can get similar results through a different approach at APUG. I find them hard to keep up with just due to sheer volume. I probably need to narrow my searches down to even fewer sub-fora. |
#10
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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste
"Joe" wrote in message ... On Jan 11, 1:27 am, "Richard Knoppow" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message ... Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this ghost town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-) Down the drain to the recycler. I still check this and the large-format group. Digital has killed off most of the photo groups and the ISP's are trying to kill off Usenet. I find the web-based groups too scattered. A not quite ghost (yet)... -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL I was wondering why you don't visit the web groups. I prefer the old plain text format myself because I'm on dialup, but there are ways to narrow the focus on some web forums. At the Large Format Photography Forum (which uses V Bulletin) you can create a search that only includes new posts from the subforums you select, and you can get similar results through a different approach at APUG. I find them hard to keep up with just due to sheer volume. I probably need to narrow my searches down to even fewer sub-fora. I may try the web forums again. I am also on a dial-up, high speed just was not available for a long time and I got used to it. I also don't have cable TV and don't want it and many high speed services come bundled. I still like film and chemical photography. I have a cheap digital camera which I used mostly for note taking when working on old electronic equipment. I suppose there are some old friends on APUG, etc and I am registered there (I think). -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL |
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