[SI] Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!

otter wrote:
On Sep 19, 8:58 am, Stuffed wrote:
In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Paul wrote:

Stuffed Crust wrote:
and my favorite was technically awful.

Didn't stop me ;-)

Okay, okay...

http://www.peachyphotos.com/po/photo/155305:214508

I know what I was trying to accomplish, but it just didn't work....

- Solomon

You captured the moment!
Brought back memories.

But you need someone handing you a hot cup of coffee!

On 2011-09-19 00:08:59 +0100, Paul Furman said:

Pete A wrote:
I've left my biggest obsession until last: "rendering intent." While
writing my comments on SI submissions I have no idea as to the intended
rendering of each image. I wonder, is its purpose: to look good as
displayed on the Web page with a black background; to be the front cover
of a magazine; to be a double-page spread in a prestigious journal; to
be framed and offered for sale at a high price; or to be a giant poster
on display in a shop or on billboard?

My sax player should be framed at 8x10 in a local dimly lit cafe g.

If you had a series of B&W images, taken with that lens, there is no
reason why you couldn't get commissioned to supply pictures for a cafe
or restaurant. It may not sound very prestigious, but if it's an
establishment that attracts business clients, there's no better
advertising than to have your name on every photo adorning the walls of
their favourite eating house.

The only reason that the lens is still in production is because it
sells its own images, when used knowledgeably. You have that knowledge,
take advantage of it.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:23:24 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

tony cooper wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:03:33 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
tony cooper wrote:
I think it's a little different when you have member-to-member
critiques on a face-to-face basis. Members tend to be more
complimentary and more gentle in critiquing in that situation.


Obviously the members don't want to upset fellow members and risk
receiving adverse comments about their own work. It is mutual
admiration only, perhaps with a slight hint of 'damning with faint
praise'. It is just like actors' praise of each other, which quickly
achieves ridiculous heights, all because of the fear of what might be
said in return, perhaps at a later date.
Of course this can never be called 'critique'. It is about as far
from honest and objective critique as it could get. And this is
precisely where the SI finds itself.

Our critiques are by judges only, and the judges don't know whose
photo it is.

If the judges are truly independent, that's the best (or least worst)
way, but are the judges also members of the club? If so, their
comments will be bound by the same constraints as I described above,
and the whole exercise becomes pointless.

Three judges each competition night x 10 competition nights per year =
finding 30 judges. One of the three is always an outsider, and they
the club tries to get two outsiders if they can.


Probably the same outsiders, drawn from a very small pool?

No, not at all. I can't remember one appearing twice in the same 12
months. I can only remember one who appeared twice in 24 months.



The remaining judges are members who are either professional
photographers or very experienced amateurs.


In the UK it is very unusual to have club members who are or were
professional photographers. Pro shooters have very little time for
camera clubs which tend to be more like social clubs for older people
where photography is something that the members have in common. There
are very, very few camera clubs with members who aren't old, and they
tend to be places where film is still popular.


The grading is done prior to the meeting without knowing the name of
the person submitting the image. The name of the submitter, and the
points scored for the image, is given at the time the image is
projected on the large screen. The critique is given at that time.

A member judge might soften his critique once he knows the name of the
member, but point count cannot be changed.

The usual critique starts out "We liked this image (or some other pat
on the back for the photographer) but we took points off for ...".


Judges who do it regularly will no doubt have a pretty good idea who
shot what.

Somewhat true in that the member judges know who travels where, so if
a shot taken in Marrakesh shows up they'll know who took it. Also,
the nature photographers have a distinctive style.

But, this isn't National Geographic. It's a local camera club where
best-in-catagory gets a blue ribbon and a $25 gift card from a
sponsor. Second place gets nada.

We have a regular customer who is a retired landscape painter and, to
a lesser extent, a landscape photographer. He supplements his pension
with a modest income from judging at camera clubs. It's a declining
market as clubs close and aren't replaced by new ones.

Our judges get a $20 gift card from Home Depot. The cards are donated
by Home Depot because a member is an executive there.


I asked him if he enjoyed judging, and what advice he would give
anyone considering taking it up (we get many requests from camera
clubs). He said he hated it, because few, if any camera club members
had even a slight grasp of the basics of photography despite many
having spent a lot of money on their photo outfits.

Bruce, I don't think you'd give Henri Cartier-Bresson credit for being
a good photographer, and you probably think that Ansel Adams just got
lucky a few times.

For some reason, you are incapable of appreciating anyone else's
output.


His advice to anyone considering judging was not to upset anyone by
being honest. Instead, a judge should always to try to be positive,
even in the face of provocation represented by some truly atrocious
shots. He was finding judging increasingly difficult as he returned
to the same clubs year after year and saw exactly the same mistakes
repeated over and over again, with individuals getting worse, not
better.

You might look at http://www.orlandocameraclub.com/ and see some of
our truly atrocious shots and read the section on "Round of Applause".


His most telling comment was that, whenever he came across anyone with
any sign of real talent, he would strongly advise them to leave the
camera club and never return. ;-)

He's your kind of guy.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 9/18/2011 8:51 PM, Paul Furman wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:

As always, thanks to all for playing.

I've got one more I shot with the mandate in mind, after the deadline:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...n/photostream/

Great composition. I particularly like like the rock stacking in the
first Muir Beach. You have captured the mood. Too bad some of the dark
area seems a bit blocked. But, maybe it's the screen.

Thanks, I actually dropped the exposure almost a stop in post so it
looked like dawn, not a white sky, and a little more saturated.
At full size, you will see some crazy orange and purple star fish I
hadn't noticed in real life g
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...60580/sizes/o/

Ah! I see now why you dropped the exposure. The building in the
background is distracting. Could some cloning help?

--
Peter

On 9/19/2011 1:56 PM, Paul Furman wrote:
otter wrote:
On Sep 19, 8:58 am, Stuffed wrote:
In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Paul wrote:

Stuffed Crust wrote:
and my favorite was technically awful.

Didn't stop me ;-)

Okay, okay...

http://www.peachyphotos.com/po/photo/155305:214508

I know what I was trying to accomplish, but it just didn't work....

- Solomon

You captured the moment!
Brought back memories.

But you need someone handing you a hot cup of coffee!

Better a hut toddy, served by a companion with a hot body.



--
Peter
Getting ready to snuggle.

PeterN wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:

As always, thanks to all for playing.

I've got one more I shot with the mandate in mind, after the deadline:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...n/photostream/

Great composition. I particularly like like the rock stacking in the
first Muir Beach. You have captured the mood. Too bad some of the dark
area seems a bit blocked. But, maybe it's the screen.

Thanks, I actually dropped the exposure almost a stop in post so it
looked like dawn, not a white sky, and a little more saturated.
At full size, you will see some crazy orange and purple star fish I
hadn't noticed in real life g
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...60580/sizes/o/

Ah! I see now why you dropped the exposure. The building in the
background is distracting. Could some cloning help?

There aren't any buildings big enough to see; between the large rocks is
Point Bonita headlands 4 miles away and Mt Davidson or Twin Peaks in San
Francisco 10 miles away with a radio tower - lights from the Sunset
District / Ocean Beach SF to the right of the rocks. Maybe San Bruno Mt
15 miles away.

On 2011-09-19 14:44:36 -0700, tony cooper said:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:23:24 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Le Snip



Judges who do it regularly will no doubt have a pretty good idea who
shot what.

Somewhat true in that the member judges know who travels where, so if
a shot taken in Marrakesh shows up they'll know who took it. Also,
the nature photographers have a distinctive style.

But, this isn't National Geographic. It's a local camera club where
best-in-catagory gets a blue ribbon and a $25 gift card from a
sponsor. Second place gets nada.

We have a regular customer who is a retired landscape painter and, to
a lesser extent, a landscape photographer. He supplements his pension
with a modest income from judging at camera clubs. It's a declining
market as clubs close and aren't replaced by new ones.

Our judges get a $20 gift card from Home Depot. The cards are donated
by Home Depot because a member is an executive there.


I asked him if he enjoyed judging, and what advice he would give
anyone considering taking it up (we get many requests from camera
clubs). He said he hated it, because few, if any camera club members
had even a slight grasp of the basics of photography despite many
having spent a lot of money on their photo outfits.

Bruce, I don't think you'd give Henri Cartier-Bresson credit for being
a good photographer, and you probably think that Ansel Adams just got
lucky a few times.

For some reason, you are incapable of appreciating anyone else's
output.

…and absolutely nobody has been given the opportunity to appreciate
Bruce's finest output, in competition, SI submission, mutual admiration
society, or conversational posting of a URL directing our eyes to a
demonstration of his superior skills.




His advice to anyone considering judging was not to upset anyone by
being honest. Instead, a judge should always to try to be positive,
even in the face of provocation represented by some truly atrocious
shots. He was finding judging increasingly difficult as he returned
to the same clubs year after year and saw exactly the same mistakes
repeated over and over again, with individuals getting worse, not
better.

You might look at http://www.orlandocameraclub.com/ and see some of
our truly atrocious shots and read the section on "Round of Applause".


His most telling comment was that, whenever he came across anyone with
any sign of real talent, he would strongly advise them to leave the
camera club and never return. ;-)

He's your kind of guy.

However he (the judge of Bruce's tale) will at least voice his opinion
to those who will hear. Bruce does not even make the effort to comment
on the work he is most critical of, the SI submissions. He just issues
a blanket condemnation of SI submissions along with his thin reasons
for refusal to participate.
Methinks there is a lack of confidence in the quality of Bruce's work
and any exposure of an example to the World might reveal his posturing
to be without substance.

I only have memories of some grainy images of trains posted by one Tony
Polson some years ago. I believe this is one such example;
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000d.jpg


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 9/19/2011 8:18 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-09-19 14:44:36 -0700, tony cooper
said:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:23:24 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Le Snip



Judges who do it regularly will no doubt have a pretty good idea who
shot what.

Somewhat true in that the member judges know who travels where, so if
a shot taken in Marrakesh shows up they'll know who took it. Also,
the nature photographers have a distinctive style.

But, this isn't National Geographic. It's a local camera club where
best-in-catagory gets a blue ribbon and a $25 gift card from a
sponsor. Second place gets nada.

We have a regular customer who is a retired landscape painter and, to
a lesser extent, a landscape photographer. He supplements his pension
with a modest income from judging at camera clubs. It's a declining
market as clubs close and aren't replaced by new ones.

Our judges get a $20 gift card from Home Depot. The cards are donated
by Home Depot because a member is an executive there.


I asked him if he enjoyed judging, and what advice he would give
anyone considering taking it up (we get many requests from camera
clubs). He said he hated it, because few, if any camera club members
had even a slight grasp of the basics of photography despite many
having spent a lot of money on their photo outfits.

Bruce, I don't think you'd give Henri Cartier-Bresson credit for being
a good photographer, and you probably think that Ansel Adams just got
lucky a few times.

For some reason, you are incapable of appreciating anyone else's
output.

…and absolutely nobody has been given the opportunity to appreciate
Bruce's finest output, in competition, SI submission, mutual admiration
society, or conversational posting of a URL directing our eyes to a
demonstration of his superior skills.




His advice to anyone considering judging was not to upset anyone by
being honest. Instead, a judge should always to try to be positive,
even in the face of provocation represented by some truly atrocious
shots. He was finding judging increasingly difficult as he returned
to the same clubs year after year and saw exactly the same mistakes
repeated over and over again, with individuals getting worse, not
better.

You might look at http://www.orlandocameraclub.com/ and see some of
our truly atrocious shots and read the section on "Round of Applause".


His most telling comment was that, whenever he came across anyone with
any sign of real talent, he would strongly advise them to leave the
camera club and never return. ;-)

He's your kind of guy.

However he (the judge of Bruce's tale) will at least voice his opinion
to those who will hear. Bruce does not even make the effort to comment
on the work he is most critical of, the SI submissions. He just issues a
blanket condemnation of SI submissions along with his thin reasons for
refusal to participate.
Methinks there is a lack of confidence in the quality of Bruce's work
and any exposure of an example to the World might reveal his posturing
to be without substance.

I only have memories of some grainy images of trains posted by one Tony
Polson some years ago. I believe this is one such example;
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000d.jpg


All that means is that Polson's knee is well trained to jerk on certain
occasions.

--
Peter

otter wrote:
On Sep 19, 7:15 pm, Paul wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:

As always, thanks to all for playing.

I've got one more I shot with the mandate in mind, after the deadline:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...n/photostream/

Great composition. I particularly like like the rock stacking in the
first Muir Beach. You have captured the mood. Too bad some of the dark
area seems a bit blocked. But, maybe it's the screen.

Thanks, I actually dropped the exposure almost a stop in post so it
looked like dawn, not a white sky, and a little more saturated.
At full size, you will see some crazy orange and purple star fish I
hadn't noticed in real lifeg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...60580/sizes/o/

Ah! I see now why you dropped the exposure. The building in the
background is distracting. Could some cloning help?

There aren't any buildings big enough to see; between the large rocks is
Point Bonita headlands 4 miles away and Mt Davidson or Twin Peaks in San
Francisco 10 miles away with a radio tower - lights from the Sunset
District / Ocean Beach SF to the right of the rocks. Maybe San Bruno Mt
15 miles away.

Paul, I take it you live near there? One of my favorite areas. I had
a friend who lived in Mill Valley that I used to visit some 40 years
ago. I remember going to an arts fair in Sausalito. I think the
admission was free or a couple bucks at most. There was a girl band
playing. Not bad, but not great. Turns out they were the girl
friends of the guys in Quicksilver Messenger Service. The guys got up
on stage and did a 20-30 minute instrumental set that just blew me
away.

I lived in Boulder Creek in the Santa Cruz Mountains for about 5
years. Sure do miss the Bay Area, except for the costs.


Been in the city since 88. I was up near Muir Beach all last week... so
peaceful.

Bruce wrote,on my timestamp of 20/09/2011 8:51 PM:


So from its original lofty aspirations, the SI has descended into a
morass of low quality snapshots taken by people of near-zero ability,
but with lots of mutual back-slapping and faint praise for each
other's execrable efforts.

Hey, it's a backwater club. What else do you expect?