Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing

On 1/22/08 11:09 AM, in article ,
"John Navas" wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:01:00 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote in :

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:30:40 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote in :

John Navas wrote:

Neither my TV nor my radio is affected by my GSM cell phone.
Don't know about the TV as I never get my cell phone that close to one
of them, but my radio next to my bed certainly IS. I suspect that the
average clock radio is rather poor at rejecting strong signals in close
proximity. Try setting your cell phone right in front of your CRT
monitor, and see what happens when it rings, or 'identifies'.

No effect, but then I have a high-grade monitor.

Of course you do, John. I would not have expected anything else. But
some of us are old, retired, and on what is laughingly called a 'fixed
income'. ...

Used/reconditioned high-end monitors are readily available at dirt cheap
prices.
And you should know.

Since Ron is retired, I am sure that you are going to go pick up a 75 -90
pound CRT for him an deliver it to his home.

What a prince.

On 1/22/08 3:56 PM, in article ,
"John Navas" wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:42:25 -0500, tony cooper
wrote in
:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:36:20 GMT, John Navas
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:26:49 +1300, "Podge" wrote in
:

This is off topic, but the issue of personal attacks on other people is as
old as the hills. There are dozens of references on internet that could be
given to support the view that you should always comment on content and not
attack the personal qualities of the person whose work you disagree with.

Been there; did that. You refused to listen and learn, much less take
the time to inform yourself, instead continuing to spout dangerous
nonsense. My comment on you being "hopeless" was a factual reference to
that, not a personal attack.

You, John, are an arrogant, bellicose person who seems unable to
accept that your own swollen opinions are not always accepted as True
Gospel, and seemingly unable to couch a useful reply in
non-confrontational terms devoid of insult.

Please do not consider this a personal attack. It's a factual
reference to your style.

I'm pleased to inform you that you're earned a coveted place in my twit
filter. It's a difficult honor -- your posts have to be pretty much
devoid of any real content -- but you passed easily.
Me too! Please! Me
toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:20:47 GMT, Craig Welch
wrote in :

John Navas said:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:42:25 -0500, tony cooper

Please do not consider this a personal attack. It's a factual
reference to your style.

I'm pleased to inform you that you're earned a coveted place in my twit
filter. It's a difficult honor -- your posts have to be pretty much
devoid of any real content -- but you passed easily.

Why do you have a valid-html40 image on your web page when the page
doesn't actually validate?

Please do not consider this a personal attack. It's a factual
reference to your web page..

Thanks for the heads up. The page did pass way back when.
The validator was probably updated. I've tweaked the page to pass.

Now tell me how that's relevant here.
Just doing your best to dredge up something to nit pick?

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)

George Kerby wrote:
On 1/22/08 11:09 AM, in article
, "John Navas"
[]
Used/reconditioned high-end monitors are readily available at dirt
cheap prices.
And you should know.

Since Ron is retired, I am sure that you are going to go pick up a 75
-90 pound CRT for him an deliver it to his home.

What a prince.

I have a spare 19-inch Dell monitor I used to run at 1152 x 864 pixels if
any want to take it away....

David

"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...

I am sure that aircraft systems could be 'hardened' to resist PED
interference, but at what cost to a troubled industry?

It seems that there are increasing pressures to allow wireless devices on
aircraft:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...number=2247 3

The RTCA has issued aircraft design and certification recommendations which,
when implemented in an aircraft design, would reduce the need for
restricting the use of PEDs.

http://aero-defense.ihs.com/news/rtc...-documents.htm

To move forward, I agree that cost is a factor, but it's good to see that
passengers' wishes are being taken seriously by the industry.

With regard to photography on aircraft, some people have suggested (quite
reasonably) that if you are really interested in photography, then you
should hire your own plane and that, when on a commercial flight, you should
give away the idea of photography and just relax and stop annoying your
fellow passengers! But on some commercial flights, getting photographs is a
highlight of the trip.

For example, the question: "Can we take photographs and videos?" is
answered on this web site about flights to Antarctica:

http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/faqs.html#Q11

The answer is:

"Absolutely! All cameras are welcome. All the photos you see on this web
site have been taken straight out the window of the plane. We are always
getting feedback from passengers who are delighted with their photographic
results - and these are amateur photographers."

So some airlines do encourage amateur photographers to take photographs on
commercial flights. OK, you wouldn't be able to take photos during take-offs
and landings, but at least the amateur photographer has been considered (and
encouraged) by the airline.

Podge

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:43:56 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote:

snip
It is certainly possible, but not really feasible. In particular, cell
phones only transmit periodically when not in use, and those intervals
are minutes long. Try setting your cell phone in front of your monitor
for a few minutes. You will see some interference with the image (on a

When in her in the evening...or wee morning hours, my cell phone
almost always lays on the desk under the front edge of the monitor
screen. I've never seen it flicker. Actually its under the right hand
edge of this monitor (Samsung 226BW) and 3 inches from the left hand
corner of the monitor (Samsung 204B) for the computer to my right. I
just called my land line with the phone laying in that position ... no
flicker, lines, or specs. I tried the same with the phone against the
front of the computer. Same results and it lays there for hours at a
time without ever being turned off. The last time it was turned off
was when I went to my doctor's office which was a week ago Tuesday.

CRT monitor, at least), every few minutes, and just before the phone
rings for a call. I don't know if all cell phones do this, but my
Motorola GSM phone certainly does. I can't leave it on my night table
because the radio makes strange noises every few minutes all night.

Sounds like a problem. Mine too is a Motorola and there is an HF ham
rig setting within 4 feet of it at present. It's also within 2 feet of
a 144/440 MHz dual band HT with no noticeable interference.

Roger (K8RI)

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:32:42 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote:

George Kerby wrote:
On 1/22/08 11:09 AM, in article
, "John Navas"
[]
Used/reconditioned high-end monitors are readily available at dirt
cheap prices.
And you should know.

Since Ron is retired, I am sure that you are going to go pick up a 75
-90 pound CRT for him an deliver it to his home.

Depends on the individual. I've been retired 11 years, weigh about
160# and still can lift a 4 X 8 foot sheet of 3/4" plywood over my
head and I still work at the 100 foot level on my tower in the back
yard. http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower29.htm It takes me
longer to get up there and I only stay a couple of hours instead of
all day. That is climbing and working with over 40# of climbing gear
and safety equipment too. OTOH I no longer do full squats at 5 sets of
10 reps with 205# of free weights like I did in my mid 50's. That and
my wife put her foot down and said no more climbing towers for the
young guys. It's their turn now. :-)) OTOH I have a climb coming up
within the next week and the temperatures are only in the teens.

My ex fatherinlaw was still roofing 40 foot hip roofed barns well into
his 80's and probably didn't run much more than 140 to 150# if that. I
couldn't hold a candle to him and although I climb towers and fly
airplanes there's no way you'd get me up on one of those barns.

Currently my wife is on a 3 week (bout 350 to 400 mile bike tour
wherer the weather is much warmer. She rides about 3000 miles a year
(all 4'10" of her)

So, being retired or even a "senior citizen" doesn't mean every one is
unable to keep up. OTOH age does come with a price and there are many
who are not in as good a shape, but that is applicable to virtually
all age groups.


What a prince.

I have a spare 19-inch Dell monitor I used to run at 1152 x 864 pixels if
any want to take it away....

I gave away three 20" CRTs last year and a single 19" the previous
year. I don't have a monitor here that cost me more than those 20"
CRTs. OTOH they were big and they were heavy.

Roger (K8RI)

David

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:32:21 GMT, matt weber
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:30:40 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote:

John Navas wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:49:32 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote in :

John Navas wrote:

Blame your carrier: GSM is normally configured for much less frequent
re-registration by mobile devices.

Blame your radio: Much too sensitive to cell phone radiation.

IF amplifiers in radios are often very sensitive to signals that close
(1 foot). It will also cause disruption on CRT screens.
The phone seems to contact the tower about every 10 minutes or so.

Neither my TV nor my radio is affected by my GSM cell phone.


Don't know about the TV as I never get my cell phone that close to one
of them, but my radio next to my bed certainly IS. I suspect that the
average clock radio is rather poor at rejecting strong signals in close
proximity. Try setting your cell phone right in front of your CRT
monitor, and see what happens when it rings, or 'identifies'.

Unless you happen to live North America where FCC 'B' or it's Canadian
counterpart rule the residential world, you are likely to hear the
217Hz (transmission rate for a GSM phone is 217 times per second) on
all sorts of devices.

In North America, the Class B standard is sufficient rigorous that
compliance has to be designed in, and the same technology that so
effectively contains emission, also keeps most external interference
out. My GSM phone in the US doesn't appear to bother computers,
radios, or TV sets. In North America these are all class 'B' devices,
and as result, have extensive rfi/emi protection designed into them.

In theory the same could be done for Aircraft, however presumably
there would be a weight penalty nobody would want to pay.

The aircraft electronics are most likely as well designed and shielded
as the other devices, BUT if you check the class B does not come with
any guarantee that it won't cause interference or be susceptible to
interference. It simply states that if the device causes interference
it must be shut down and you are stuck with any you receive.

Roger (K8RI)

In message ,
Roger (K8RI) Proclaimed from the tallest tower:

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:43:56 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote:

snip
It is certainly possible, but not really feasible. In particular,
cell phones only transmit periodically when not in use, and those
intervals are minutes long. Try setting your cell phone in front of
your monitor for a few minutes. You will see some interference with
the image (on a

When in her in the evening...or wee morning hours, my cell phone
almost always lays on the desk under the front edge of the monitor
screen. I've never seen it flicker. Actually its under the right hand
edge of this monitor (Samsung 226BW) and 3 inches from the left hand
corner of the monitor (Samsung 204B) for the computer to my right. I
just called my land line with the phone laying in that position ... no
flicker, lines, or specs. I tried the same with the phone against the
front of the computer. Same results and it lays there for hours at a
time without ever being turned off. The last time it was turned off
was when I went to my doctor's office which was a week ago Tuesday.

CRT monitor, at least), every few minutes, and just before the phone
rings for a call. I don't know if all cell phones do this, but my
Motorola GSM phone certainly does. I can't leave it on my night
table because the radio makes strange noises every few minutes all
night.

Sounds like a problem. Mine too is a Motorola and there is an HF ham
rig setting within 4 feet of it at present. It's also within 2 feet of
a 144/440 MHz dual band HT with no noticeable interference.

Roger (K8RI)

It is not a problem (or at least not a fault with his phone). It's pretty
common for mobile phones to cause interference on the radio. It's happened
to me on numerous occasions, and I've heard it on broadcast radio too, (the
DJ apologised afterwards for leaving his mobile phone switched on).
It sounds like a kind of 'duddle-uh duddle-uh duddle-uh...' noise.

Don't know anything about ham radio, maybe the frequencies they use are
outside the range of a mobile?


--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:32:42 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote:

George Kerby wrote:
On 1/22/08 11:09 AM, in article
, "John Navas"
[]
Used/reconditioned high-end monitors are readily available at dirt
cheap prices.
And you should know.

Since Ron is retired, I am sure that you are going to go pick up a 75
-90 pound CRT for him an deliver it to his home.

Depends on the individual. I've been retired 11 years, weigh about
160# and still can lift a 4 X 8 foot sheet of 3/4" plywood over my
head and I still work at the 100 foot level on my tower in the back
yard. http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower29.htm It takes me
longer to get up there and I only stay a couple of hours instead of
all day. That is climbing and working with over 40# of climbing gear
and safety equipment too. OTOH I no longer do full squats at 5 sets of
10 reps with 205# of free weights like I did in my mid 50's. That and
my wife put her foot down and said no more climbing towers for the
young guys. It's their turn now. :-)) OTOH I have a climb coming up
within the next week and the temperatures are only in the teens.

When age started reducing my once excellent sense of balance to merely
good, with occasional spells of poor, I had to think seriously about
the hazards of continuing to climb up things. After a lot of serious
thought I decided that what I needed was more ropes and the
entertaining gadgets of modern rope access technology so that I could
fall off more safely and comfortably :-)

So, being retired or even a "senior citizen" doesn't mean every one is
unable to keep up. OTOH age does come with a price and there are many
who are not in as good a shape, but that is applicable to virtually
all age groups.

A lot of what is considered to be the inevitable physical
deterioration of age is actually the inevitable physical deterioration
of not using your muscles much.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]