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#31
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there aren't any 28mm hyperwide lenses covering 6x9cm (or even 6x7cm with more conservative limits and w/o center filter?), and even 35mm coverage (with an APO grandagon or biogon) is going to set you back kilobuck(s) ;-) the problem is likely you need to custom build or adapt a camera body to allow recessed shutter, and machine up lens mount adapter, all of which isn't cheap or easy for average person ;-( the second big attraction to me is from experiences with adapting nikon rear lens cap to bronica body cap. Suddenly, all my 35mm nikkors are closeup lenses, from wide angle perspective to telephotos far from skittish critters etc., including micronikkors ;-) So an adapter from nikkors for a panoramic nimslo 3D (or the plasticky version, easier to cut as I noted) would be a nifty item, possibly opening up use of rectilinear fisheyes (lots of excess coverage), my 12mm fisheye (covers a lot more than 35mm frame ;-), plus as Gordon noted, many telephotos have excess coverage. and as gordon noted, I do have the lens, and if an adapter would not harm the lens but let me use its full potential for panoramics too, then that would be a double reason to use it. ;-) but again, the big draw here for me is that there aren't any 35mm lenses for many 6x7cm etc. systems, so custom building a body to use a $200-ish 35mm PC nikkor would be the only way to get there other than the APO grandagon Rodenstock, and for the 28mm, not even that ;-) regards bobm -- ************************************************** ********************* * Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 * ********************Standard Disclaimers Apply************************* |
#32
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there aren't any 28mm hyperwide lenses covering 6x9cm (or even 6x7cm with more conservative limits and w/o center filter?), and even 35mm coverage (with an APO grandagon or biogon) is going to set you back kilobuck(s) ;-) the problem is likely you need to custom build or adapt a camera body to allow recessed shutter, and machine up lens mount adapter, all of which isn't cheap or easy for average person ;-( the second big attraction to me is from experiences with adapting nikon rear lens cap to bronica body cap. Suddenly, all my 35mm nikkors are closeup lenses, from wide angle perspective to telephotos far from skittish critters etc., including micronikkors ;-) So an adapter from nikkors for a panoramic nimslo 3D (or the plasticky version, easier to cut as I noted) would be a nifty item, possibly opening up use of rectilinear fisheyes (lots of excess coverage), my 12mm fisheye (covers a lot more than 35mm frame ;-), plus as Gordon noted, many telephotos have excess coverage. and as gordon noted, I do have the lens, and if an adapter would not harm the lens but let me use its full potential for panoramics too, then that would be a double reason to use it. ;-) but again, the big draw here for me is that there aren't any 35mm lenses for many 6x7cm etc. systems, so custom building a body to use a $200-ish 35mm PC nikkor would be the only way to get there other than the APO grandagon Rodenstock, and for the 28mm, not even that ;-) regards bobm -- ************************************************** ********************* * Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 * ********************Standard Disclaimers Apply************************* |
#33
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"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
... jjs wrote: [...] If you are really, really, really curious, I can upload some EPS files for you. Those are the mock-up files I am using in Adobe Illustrator to investigate spacing and dimensions. I could also e-mail them to you. Of course I am interested, and of course I have the Adobe suite. I'd like to see your work. I am john at stafford dot net |
#34
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"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
... jjs wrote: [...] If you are really, really, really curious, I can upload some EPS files for you. Those are the mock-up files I am using in Adobe Illustrator to investigate spacing and dimensions. I could also e-mail them to you. Of course I am interested, and of course I have the Adobe suite. I'd like to see your work. I am john at stafford dot net |
#35
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jjs wrote:
"Gordon Moat" wrote in message ... jjs wrote: [...] If you are really, really, really curious, I can upload some EPS files for you. Those are the mock-up files I am using in Adobe Illustrator to investigate spacing and dimensions. I could also e-mail them to you. Of course I am interested, and of course I have the Adobe suite. I'd like to see your work. I am john at stafford dot net Okay, you should have two EPS files in your e-mail soon. Let me know if you think of any different ideas, or directions to explore. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com Updated! |
#36
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jjs wrote:
"Gordon Moat" wrote in message ... jjs wrote: [...] If you are really, really, really curious, I can upload some EPS files for you. Those are the mock-up files I am using in Adobe Illustrator to investigate spacing and dimensions. I could also e-mail them to you. Of course I am interested, and of course I have the Adobe suite. I'd like to see your work. I am john at stafford dot net Okay, you should have two EPS files in your e-mail soon. Let me know if you think of any different ideas, or directions to explore. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com Updated! |
#37
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Bob Monaghan wrote:
there aren't any 28mm hyperwide lenses covering 6x9cm (or even 6x7cm with more conservative limits and w/o center filter?), and even 35mm coverage (with an APO grandagon or biogon) is going to set you back kilobuck(s) ;-) Okay, good points. I had not thought of comparing this to same focal length lenses. However, the Grandagon will cover a larger area, which allows for more movements. Whenever this device gets finished, I will go rent or borrow the PC-Nikkor 28 mm, and try that out. I have only rented one a couple times, and while the shift amounts are similar to the 35 mm, I don't know if the coverage will match. the problem is likely you need to custom build or adapt a camera body to allow recessed shutter, and machine up lens mount adapter, all of which isn't cheap or easy for average person ;-( The aluminium is actually very low cost, and very stable with T6 treatment (or similar grade). I have a couple mini lathe and a mini milling machine available any time I want to use them. These are left over tools from when I was making custom parts for road racing motorcycles. I would not consider myself a machinist, though when the design is simple enough, I have no trouble making something. My hope is for a very simple design that can be repeated. When that happens, it would allow more than just one to be built. Obviously, someone with a CNC could probably knock one off fairly quickly. There are many machine shops in my area, most near $50 to $70 an hour. It should take only one hour for a simple design, so I don't think that is expensive either. the second big attraction to me is from experiences with adapting nikon rear lens cap to bronica body cap. Suddenly, all my 35mm nikkors are closeup lenses, from wide angle perspective to telephotos far from skittish critters etc., including micronikkors ;-) Thanks for sharing that. It might make an easy comparison piece, or test rig. So an adapter from nikkors for a panoramic nimslo 3D (or the plasticky version, easier to cut as I noted) would be a nifty item, possibly opening up use of rectilinear fisheyes (lots of excess coverage), my 12mm fisheye (covers a lot more than 35mm frame ;-), plus as Gordon noted, many telephotos have excess coverage. I think a few of the Nikon telephoto lenses might cover 645 frame. However, many of those have a fairly large rear element. Another issue is that as you focus closer, many of those same telephoto lenses move the rear element quite a distance further from the film plane. It would seem that vignetting might be more of a trouble than coverage. This actually makes me think that an even larger shutter, like an Ilex #4 might be better. I don't have the body thickness measurement for an Ilex #4, so I don't know if it would fit. and as gordon noted, I do have the lens, and if an adapter would not harm the lens but let me use its full potential for panoramics too, then that would be a double reason to use it. ;-) Any other large shutters I should consider? I know a Copal #3 would do it, though it is much more expensive. Also, a Copal #3 is a very thick shutter body, meaning I would have to fabricate a custom body to hold the film, which I am trying to avoid. Maybe an Ilex #4, or something similar? but again, the big draw here for me is that there aren't any 35mm lenses for many 6x7cm etc. systems, so custom building a body to use a $200-ish 35mm PC nikkor would be the only way to get there other than the APO grandagon Rodenstock, and for the 28mm, not even that ;-) Okay, let's say closer to $300 for the PC-Nikkor 35 mm f2.8 (the 28 mm version is much more). Those Ilex shutters seem to go for near $25 (or less), though might need some maintenance. The AGFA 6x9 folder is a $10 to $20 item. Blocks of aluminium, or even a little brass, and some fasteners, maybe another $30. A Nikon extension ring, or a broken Nikon body, needs to be scavenged for a lens mount bayonet, though should be under $25. Add in some misc. costs, or an hour of machine shop work, and everything should be possible for under $500. Obviously, I am not counting my time. Possible problems: too much light fall-off, limiting coverage area, or requiring a centre filter to compensate (centre filter would be more expense, though a film mask to smaller size would be another solution); large shutter might unbalance camera, making hand held shots tougher; adapter solution needs to easy allow access for shutter maintenance, or removal; viewfinder solution could be difficult, or only simple wire frame; external rangefinder needs to be used to set distance, with the hope that the markings on the Nikkor lens are close to accurate; single shutter plane might not block enough light between exposures, causing film fogging unless lens cap is quickly put back in place. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated! regards bobm -- ************************************************** ********************* * Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 * ********************Standard Disclaimers Apply************************* |
#38
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Bob Monaghan wrote:
there aren't any 28mm hyperwide lenses covering 6x9cm (or even 6x7cm with more conservative limits and w/o center filter?), and even 35mm coverage (with an APO grandagon or biogon) is going to set you back kilobuck(s) ;-) Okay, good points. I had not thought of comparing this to same focal length lenses. However, the Grandagon will cover a larger area, which allows for more movements. Whenever this device gets finished, I will go rent or borrow the PC-Nikkor 28 mm, and try that out. I have only rented one a couple times, and while the shift amounts are similar to the 35 mm, I don't know if the coverage will match. the problem is likely you need to custom build or adapt a camera body to allow recessed shutter, and machine up lens mount adapter, all of which isn't cheap or easy for average person ;-( The aluminium is actually very low cost, and very stable with T6 treatment (or similar grade). I have a couple mini lathe and a mini milling machine available any time I want to use them. These are left over tools from when I was making custom parts for road racing motorcycles. I would not consider myself a machinist, though when the design is simple enough, I have no trouble making something. My hope is for a very simple design that can be repeated. When that happens, it would allow more than just one to be built. Obviously, someone with a CNC could probably knock one off fairly quickly. There are many machine shops in my area, most near $50 to $70 an hour. It should take only one hour for a simple design, so I don't think that is expensive either. the second big attraction to me is from experiences with adapting nikon rear lens cap to bronica body cap. Suddenly, all my 35mm nikkors are closeup lenses, from wide angle perspective to telephotos far from skittish critters etc., including micronikkors ;-) Thanks for sharing that. It might make an easy comparison piece, or test rig. So an adapter from nikkors for a panoramic nimslo 3D (or the plasticky version, easier to cut as I noted) would be a nifty item, possibly opening up use of rectilinear fisheyes (lots of excess coverage), my 12mm fisheye (covers a lot more than 35mm frame ;-), plus as Gordon noted, many telephotos have excess coverage. I think a few of the Nikon telephoto lenses might cover 645 frame. However, many of those have a fairly large rear element. Another issue is that as you focus closer, many of those same telephoto lenses move the rear element quite a distance further from the film plane. It would seem that vignetting might be more of a trouble than coverage. This actually makes me think that an even larger shutter, like an Ilex #4 might be better. I don't have the body thickness measurement for an Ilex #4, so I don't know if it would fit. and as gordon noted, I do have the lens, and if an adapter would not harm the lens but let me use its full potential for panoramics too, then that would be a double reason to use it. ;-) Any other large shutters I should consider? I know a Copal #3 would do it, though it is much more expensive. Also, a Copal #3 is a very thick shutter body, meaning I would have to fabricate a custom body to hold the film, which I am trying to avoid. Maybe an Ilex #4, or something similar? but again, the big draw here for me is that there aren't any 35mm lenses for many 6x7cm etc. systems, so custom building a body to use a $200-ish 35mm PC nikkor would be the only way to get there other than the APO grandagon Rodenstock, and for the 28mm, not even that ;-) Okay, let's say closer to $300 for the PC-Nikkor 35 mm f2.8 (the 28 mm version is much more). Those Ilex shutters seem to go for near $25 (or less), though might need some maintenance. The AGFA 6x9 folder is a $10 to $20 item. Blocks of aluminium, or even a little brass, and some fasteners, maybe another $30. A Nikon extension ring, or a broken Nikon body, needs to be scavenged for a lens mount bayonet, though should be under $25. Add in some misc. costs, or an hour of machine shop work, and everything should be possible for under $500. Obviously, I am not counting my time. Possible problems: too much light fall-off, limiting coverage area, or requiring a centre filter to compensate (centre filter would be more expense, though a film mask to smaller size would be another solution); large shutter might unbalance camera, making hand held shots tougher; adapter solution needs to easy allow access for shutter maintenance, or removal; viewfinder solution could be difficult, or only simple wire frame; external rangefinder needs to be used to set distance, with the hope that the markings on the Nikkor lens are close to accurate; single shutter plane might not block enough light between exposures, causing film fogging unless lens cap is quickly put back in place. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated! regards bobm -- ************************************************** ********************* * Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 * ********************Standard Disclaimers Apply************************* |
#39
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Bob Monaghan wrote:
see http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/polaroidtest.html polaroid lens specs by models, hacking EE100s range and so on. there are some hacker's guides to the polaroid cameras (SX-70..) online. Most of them have very simple light meter controls, easy to rework, replacing CdS sensor with potentiometer of desired range, or ND filters over sensor, and so on (typically lighten-darken is a 2 1/2 stop range on many models). Okay, maybe the potentiometer idea, and a marked scale. The big benefit would be the 1/1200 fastest shutter. The downside is the shutter part of a 250 Automatic is almost as big as the AGFA 6x9 folder body, so it would look a little bulky. Fitting the battery could be tough as well, and add even more bulk, or unbalance the camera. I am still leaning more towards using a leaf shutter solution. I picked up a captiva awhile back to do some hacking, but turned up a bellows leak, so now a parts camera. But the idea of replacing the polaroid film holder with a MF back, creating a compact autofocus MF camera, was a passing interest ;-) Ditto, I keep thinking of adapting a polaroid 250 style camera to a 4x5" film holder, and ending up with an auto-exposure LF kit that folds up into a jacket pocket ;-) (mf/budgetlf.html ;-). You must wear a very large jacket. The 250 Automatic is a large camera body. While it is smaller than a 110 Pathfinder, it is actually somewhat heavy. Everyone will know when you are using one, since they are tough to miss. The pack film film area compared to the Polaroid 545 holder film area is not much of a difference, so I don't know if all that work would be of much benefit. The lenses on the various Pathfinder models are better, and perhaps why those more often become 4x5 conversions, like the Littmann 45, the Four Designs cameras, or a few others. So many ideas, so little time ;-) Pick one, and go with it until it is finished. It is easy to get too many ideas, or add too much complexity. While tilt or shift might seem to be nice additions to a project, the added complexity of construction could delay the final outcome. Complexity could also make a camera a pain to actually use, or simply add too much weight and bulk. An example is that I wanted a camera that I could easily carry, and use for hand held shots; those needs direct me to a simple and compact solution. I also considered that while I might use shift hand held, I doubt I would use tilt. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated! |
#40
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some good points again; try to avoid larger shutters, as they get both thicker, heavier, and much harder to find cheaply ;-( you might look into reverse -T mount adapters for nikon and others, this would make your setup universal, not just for Nikon, but canon and other oddball lenses (their tilt/shift comes instantly to mind..). the reverse T takes the nikon lens and ends in a T-mount thread, such that it can go onto T-mount bellows. That solves your nikon extension tube to X problem, but universally, for all 35mm kits where reverse T is available. Now you just need a ring threaded to take the T-mount to go to your shutter mounting threads. One non-trivial point here is the T-mount lenses are 54mm (as are my topcor UV) lens registration, IIRC. Not only would the short and longer telephotos also likely work to MF coverage, but you might get pretty good coverage from wider angle older Tmounts with excess coverage (lots cheaper than other shift lenses), yes, not as much as the shift lenses, but perhaps enough to cover 645 or ?? Ditto, the fisheyes might work? just a thought - ;-) bobm -- ************************************************** ********************* * Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 * ********************Standard Disclaimers Apply************************* |
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