With all this SPAM

Perhaps we should revive some moderated listservs. Someone would kill
the spam subscribers. I'd be one heck of a moderator - Mr. Intolerant!
But the mail would go through on time. The trains, too.

I have a retirement plan. I'm going to make a good old Battle Axe and go
about the world taking care of SPAMmers, up close and personal.

"John" wrote in message
...
Perhaps we should revive some moderated listservs. Someone would kill the
spam subscribers. I'd be one heck of a moderator - Mr. Intolerant! But the
mail would go through on time. The trains, too.

I have a retirement plan. I'm going to make a good old Battle Axe and go
about the world taking care of SPAMmers, up close and personal.

One thing you can do is complain to the pertinent folks. A
quick way using OE is as follows:

1. Select "Properties" from the "File" drop down menu of the post.

2. Click on the "Details" tab. That will yield the internet headers.

3. Using click and drag, copy all the internet headers.

4. Going back to the post, click the "Forward" icon.

5. Above the original post ("----- Original Message ----- ") paste those
internet headers.

6. Locate in the pasted internet headers the "Complaints To:" internet
address.

7. Copy and paste that internet address in the "To:" line of the forwarded
post.

8. Click the "Send" icon to send to this header information.

Looks long and involved, but doesn't take but a few seconds once you get
into the flow of things.

On 7/2/2008 10:07 AM Lawrence Akutagawa spake thus:

"John" wrote in message
...

Perhaps we should revive some moderated listservs. Someone would kill the
spam subscribers. I'd be one heck of a moderator - Mr. Intolerant! But the
mail would go through on time. The trains, too.

I have a retirement plan. I'm going to make a good old Battle Axe and go
about the world taking care of SPAMmers, up close and personal.

One thing you can do is complain to the pertinent folks. A
quick way using OE is as follows:

1. Select "Properties" from the "File" drop down menu of the post.

2. Click on the "Details" tab. That will yield the internet headers.

3. Using click and drag, copy all the internet headers.

4. Going back to the post, click the "Forward" icon.

5. Above the original post ("----- Original Message ----- ") paste those
internet headers.

6. Locate in the pasted internet headers the "Complaints To:" internet
address.

7. Copy and paste that internet address in the "To:" line of the forwarded
post.

8. Click the "Send" icon to send to this header information.

Looks long and involved, but doesn't take but a few seconds once you get
into the flow of things.

Yeah, and if you're really, really lucky, you might actually get what my
dear old dad used to call a "TS letter" from the ISP (but more likely,
you'll get no response whatsoever). Been there, done that.

The truth is that they (ISPs) just don't give a ****. So it (the spam)
is *not* going to go away.

Learn to live with it.


--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
It drags itself out of the dark abyss of pish, and crawls insanely up
the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and
doodle. It is balder and dash."

- With apologies to H. L. Mencken

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 7/2/2008 10:07 AM Lawrence Akutagawa spake thus:

"John" wrote in message
...

Perhaps we should revive some moderated listservs. Someone would kill
the spam subscribers. I'd be one heck of a moderator - Mr. Intolerant!
But the mail would go through on time. The trains, too.

I have a retirement plan. I'm going to make a good old Battle Axe and go
about the world taking care of SPAMmers, up close and personal.

One thing you can do is complain to the pertinent folks. A
quick way using OE is as follows:

1. Select "Properties" from the "File" drop down menu of the post.

2. Click on the "Details" tab. That will yield the internet headers.

3. Using click and drag, copy all the internet headers.

4. Going back to the post, click the "Forward" icon.

5. Above the original post ("----- Original Message ----- ") paste those
internet headers.

6. Locate in the pasted internet headers the "Complaints To:" internet
address.

7. Copy and paste that internet address in the "To:" line of the
forwarded
post.

8. Click the "Send" icon to send to this header information.

Looks long and involved, but doesn't take but a few seconds once you get
into the flow of things.

Yeah, and if you're really, really lucky, you might actually get what my
dear old dad used to call a "TS letter" from the ISP (but more likely,
you'll get no response whatsoever). Been there, done that.

The truth is that they (ISPs) just don't give a ****. So it (the spam) is
*not* going to go away.

Learn to live with it.

hmmm...what I get back is an empty email from Google Help with the subject
line of my forwarded post prefixed by " [#number]" for each set of
submissions across various newsgroups I frequent, as per:

[#302958735] Fw: For Sale: Premodded Consoles, Ori / Backup Games Plus
Retro Stuf

And my observation is that the level of spam does go down over time. My
guess - repeat, guess - is that the all those "cmsg cancel" posts are
related to these, as per

cmsg cancel


And yes, the spammers keep spamming. But I like to think that they have to
keep setting up new email addresses from which to spam given what I see.

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
Perhaps we should revive some moderated listservs. Someone would kill the
spam subscribers. I'd be one heck of a moderator - Mr. Intolerant! But the
mail would go through on time. The trains, too.

I have a retirement plan. I'm going to make a good old Battle Axe and go
about the world taking care of SPAMmers, up close and personal.

One thing you can do is complain to the pertinent folks. A
quick way using OE is as follows:

Thanks, but I do know that. Unfortunately these lowlifes change
addresses constantly.

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:

hmmm...what I get back is an empty email from Google Help with the subject
line of my forwarded post prefixed by " [#number]" for each set of
submissions across various newsgroups I frequent, as per:

I want to see blood flow. Enough of the virtual thing.

"John" wrote in message
m...
Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
Perhaps we should revive some moderated listservs.
Someone would kill the spam subscribers. I'd be one heck
of a moderator - Mr. Intolerant! But the mail would go
through on time. The trains, too.

I have a retirement plan. I'm going to make a good old
Battle Axe and go about the world taking care of
SPAMmers, up close and personal.

One thing you can do is complain to the pertinent folks.
A
quick way using OE is as follows:

Thanks, but I do know that. Unfortunately these lowlifes
change addresses constantly.

Whatever effectiveness or lack of it there is one
should file abuse complaints for each instance of spam. An
ISP is more likely to pay attention if it gets a lot of
complaints. One reason for the increased spamming of this
group is the lack of volume here.
Some spammers still work through open relays so it can
be difficult to find the actual originating ISP but there
are far fewer of these so more often the abuse address in
the header is the right one. Look in the path trace for
_mismatch!_, if you see that the post was made from an open
relay somewhere.
For the person who suggested a moderator: this group
was never moderated. When the rec.photo groups were
re-organized a number of years ago one moderated group was
created. It never had much use. I doubt if there is still an
active moderator.
It is interesting to me that while ISPs think no one
uses news groups any more the spammers evidently think
differently and are using increasingly as a free advertising
medium. I don't think this would be so if there was not a
pretty large "audience".
ISPs want to make money for nothing (like most
businesses). The ISP business is price competitive so there
is a tendency to increase effective price by cutting back
the services offered. They are working on the assumption
that most subscribers, especially new ones, are too naieve
about the internet to know about Usenet and alt news groups
so won't miss them. News group users should strongly protest
this.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Richard Knoppow wrote:

Whatever effectiveness or lack of it there is one
should file abuse complaints for each instance of spam. An
ISP is more likely to pay attention if it gets a lot of
complaints.

There is no single ISP. Each news server has the responsibility to
filter its own incoming traffic, and there are no smart enough SPAM
filters. They would have to use content heuristics. It would also slow
things for them, and there aren't enough humans in charge to pay much
attention to complaints. A news server can run unattended for months,
and they probably do.

FWIW, I used to manage a news server.

"John" wrote in message
...
Richard Knoppow wrote:

Whatever effectiveness or lack of it there is one
should file abuse complaints for each instance of spam.
An ISP is more likely to pay attention if it gets a lot
of complaints.

There is no single ISP. Each news server has the
responsibility to filter its own incoming traffic, and
there are no smart enough SPAM filters. They would have to
use content heuristics. It would also slow things for
them, and there aren't enough humans in charge to pay much
attention to complaints. A news server can run unattended
for months, and they probably do.

FWIW, I used to manage a news server.

So, do you mean that no one should ever complain?
Should we just like it and lump it?
A news server is a piece of machinery, it can't be
responsible for anything. All news servers are operated by
some entity, an ISP or a service. They are responsible for
enforcing what ever acceptable use conditions they specify
in their contracts with subscribers. They have the right to
refuse service to anyone who violates their rules. Some
operators of news servers may choose to ignore the rules but
not all are so irresponsible.
Did you just ignore spammers on the system you managed?
Filtering is not done by message but by subscriber.
Control of subscribers must be done by e-mail addresses but
that can be backed up by asking for actual snail mail
addresses or real telephone numbers to help control those
who resubscribe with different e-mail addresses.
Unfortunately, Google Groups seems to be particularly
irresponsible or, perhaps, they are just too large to
respond promptly. However, I have filed complaints with
Google about spammers and have seen those spammers disappear
after a relatively short time.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Richard Knoppow wrote:

So, do you mean that no one should ever complain?

No, Richard, that is not what I meant. I mean that you should not become
frustrated if you find no response from the servers' manager, or if the
SPAM continues under new names and addresses.

Should we just like it and lump it?

No.

A news server is a piece of machinery, it can't be
responsible for anything. All news servers are operated by
some entity, an ISP or a service. They are responsible for
enforcing what ever acceptable use conditions they specify
in their contracts with subscribers.

Acceptable use to whom? The reader or the poster? Note how many
providers have a conspicuous absence of terms regarding guaranteed
filtering of content. You see, it is best to have no terms to defend in
court when the filters fail than to state something because the truth is
that usenet has too much traffic to monitor.

They have the right to
refuse service to anyone who violates their rules.

First, there is no "anyone". The SPAMmers use false names and so-forth.
They have it all automated so they just peck and poke and pester with no
hands-on involvement.

Some
operators of news servers may choose to ignore the rules but
not all are so irresponsible.
Did you just ignore spammers on the system you managed?

It was impossible to manage all the posts. Since usernames are
automatically contrived and changed frequently, filtering one simply
made no difference and if I filtered the domain it would hinder
thousands of people who use the domain in a legitimate way.

Filtering is not done by message but by subscriber.
Control of subscribers must be done by e-mail addresses but
that can be backed up by asking for actual snail mail
addresses or real telephone numbers to help control those
who resubscribe with different e-mail addresses.

Usenet is largely free. Richard, you have been around since its
inception, no? It is one of the very last remnants of the old network
that existed in the spirit of sharing. It has gone the way of the
tragedy of the commons.

Unfortunately, Google Groups seems to be particularly
irresponsible or, perhaps, they are just too large to
respond promptly. However, I have filed complaints with
Google about spammers and have seen those spammers disappear
after a relatively short time.

Google is so very wealthy that it can put a dozen people on the task
whereas no one else can, and still the traffic is too great. You see
certain SPAMmers disappear because the usernames are changed
automatically, by a program, and not necessarily because Google filters
the name.