If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?

"Mike" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
...

Let's say, through the act of god, or whatever, that you've been
transported back through time for a few thousand years.

[SNIP]

Aspirin. And, in my case, ergotamine. The one modern thing I'd really hate
to be without. Otherwise, as a one time archaeologist, I'd be having a
ball.



Peter

"Jimmy Smith" wrote in message
...
If you brought any advanced technology you would have been killed for
witchcraft. No matter how hard you tried you would not be able to
convince
them otherwise.

Jimmy


Not in every culture, but in quite a few that's what I've always imagined
too, when day-dreaming about it.


Peter

"Big Bill" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:48:42 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Let's say, through the act of god, or whatever, that you've been
transported back through time for a few thousand years. Would
you've preferred that you have a digital camera? Or a film camera?

There are reasons that technological breakthroughs come when
they do; supporting technology must also be possible.

What would you do with any film you exposed? Did you also
backpack your chemicals? How would you *view* your pics?
Did you also pack in your papers? How about a darkroom?
With digital, how do you view the pics?

Even just getting *water* will be a problem; there's a reason
everyone drank beer & wine: the water was really bad.

I seriously doubt that film, if unprocessed would last to today,
*if* it were discoverd in some dig.

Best bet would be to stick it in a slow moving glacier.

A Compact flash card? It's
plastic; plastic lasts a long time, but not *that* long.


Some years back there was a debate about how to label high level radioactive
waste in ways that would appropriately warn people "Do not dig here or you
will die!" and would last the necessary 20,000 years. Language is not too
tricky: a skull and cross-bones suggests death to any human regardless of
cutural context - the problem is the material. Most things that really last
are also intrinsically valuable or useful. Gold - nah, people would
actively dig it up. Plastics wouldn't last long enough. Even glass makes
excellent flaked cutting tools, and who is to say that in 20 millenia man
won't be back to the stone age.

In the end someone had the sense to ask archaeologists, and the concensus
answer was pottery. Lasts easily for that length of time, and is not very
intrinsically useful: break it and there are no sharp edges, it can't really
be shaped in any worthwhile way. Make it rounded, so you can't build with
it. Bury enough at the site that they have no rarity value and that anyone
digging there will run into them, but not so many that they are worth
exploiting as a raw material (to ballast a boat, say, or to grind up to make
grog tempered earthenware.) I always thought this was a fascinating
exercise.

Then, as others have pointed out, technology, if sufficiently
advanced, is indistinguishable from magic.

However, let's say you could keep your magic private; digital,
with a laptop and a solar recharging unit, would be *far* easier to
use than film.
Film just requires too much technology that wouldn't be availabe
to you; as I said, even clean water will be a problem. A source of
reliable, white light would be another problem.

As for hoping that your pics will survive a thousand years or so
isn't, IMO, a reasonable hope.
Imagine: you've found some way to, say, package your film
(laptop) so that it actually survives. Can you imagine the howls
of laughter from other archeologists when someone announces
the find?


I once dug on a late mediaeval site where we had a student who thought he
knew everything. One day we got a football and painted half of it matt
black and burried it - black half up - in some loose soil (of course we
didn't disturb the real stratigraphy - we were all archaeologists, after
all...) in the area he was digging. Much excitement from him at uncovering
this 'cannon ball', followed by careful cleaning to reveal it, then
incredulity turning to fury as he got beyond the paint and found what it
really was, followed by the rest of us falling about laughing and him
throwing the ball at someone's head.



Peter

"skymuffins" wrote in message
...
[SNIP]
Use the history book to predict events here-and-there, so that
they know you're serious... Enjoy the world like a god!


Actually, all you need in most cultures and times would be an astronomical
almanac. Predicting eclipses and so on would get you all the respect you
needed.

Still, the history book could be handy - any wars coming up, it would be
nice to sure you were on the winning side...


Peter

Bandicoot wrote:

"skymuffins" wrote in message
...
[SNIP]

Use the history book to predict events here-and-there, so that
they know you're serious... Enjoy the world like a god!



Actually, all you need in most cultures and times would be an astronomical
almanac. Predicting eclipses and so on would get you all the respect you
needed.


Assuming you really knew the time and date.

Phil Wheeler wrote:



Bandicoot wrote:

"skymuffins" wrote in message
...
[SNIP]

Use the history book to predict events here-and-there, so that
they know you're serious... Enjoy the world like a god!



Actually, all you need in most cultures and times would be an
astronomical
almanac. Predicting eclipses and so on would get you all the respect you
needed.


Assuming you really knew the time and date.


The almanac idea might work. The history book might provide some
surprises. How well do we really know history that far back?

Phil

Bandicoot wrote:

"Big Bill" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:48:42 +0000 (UTC), wrote:


Let's say, through the act of god, or whatever, that you've been
transported back through time for a few thousand years. Would
you've preferred that you have a digital camera? Or a film camera?

There are reasons that technological breakthroughs come when
they do; supporting technology must also be possible.

What would you do with any film you exposed? Did you also
backpack your chemicals? How would you *view* your pics?
Did you also pack in your papers? How about a darkroom?
With digital, how do you view the pics?

Even just getting *water* will be a problem; there's a reason
everyone drank beer & wine: the water was really bad.

I seriously doubt that film, if unprocessed would last to today,
*if* it were discoverd in some dig.


Best bet would be to stick it in a slow moving glacier.


A Compact flash card? It's
plastic; plastic lasts a long time, but not *that* long.



Some years back there was a debate about how to label high level radioactive
waste in ways that would appropriately warn people "Do not dig here or you
will die!" and would last the necessary 20,000 years. Language is not too
tricky: a skull and cross-bones suggests death to any human regardless of
cutural context - the problem is the material. Most things that really last
are also intrinsically valuable or useful. Gold - nah, people would
actively dig it up. Plastics wouldn't last long enough. Even glass makes
excellent flaked cutting tools, and who is to say that in 20 millenia man
won't be back to the stone age.

In the end someone had the sense to ask archaeologists, and the concensus
answer was pottery. Lasts easily for that length of time, and is not very
intrinsically useful: break it and there are no sharp edges, it can't really
be shaped in any worthwhile way. Make it rounded, so you can't build with
it. Bury enough at the site that they have no rarity value and that anyone
digging there will run into them, but not so many that they are worth
exploiting as a raw material (to ballast a boat, say, or to grind up to make
grog tempered earthenware.) I always thought this was a fascinating
exercise.

I'm not sure at all if this can apply to all radioactive
materials, but one method is to encapsulate the radioactive
material in very small quantities into small glass beads. This
keeps the material seperated enough that fission will not occur
naturally regardless of the quantity at any given spot, and also
allows for the wide dispertion of the material (say underground
in stable strata or on the ocean floor) without any harm to the
environment (this last bit about the ocean is questionable, to be
sure). Would a subduction fault be a good place for the disposal
of these beads ... suck them down into the mantle where they can
decay over time?

Cheers,
Alan


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Bandicoot wrote:

[SNIP]



Some years back there was a debate about how to label high level
radioactive
waste in ways that would appropriately warn people "Do not dig here or
you
will die!" and would last the necessary 20,000 years. Language is not
too
tricky: a skull and cross-bones suggests death to any human regardless
of
cutural context - the problem is the material. Most things that really
last
are also intrinsically valuable or useful. Gold - nah, people would
actively dig it up. Plastics wouldn't last long enough. Even glass
makes
excellent flaked cutting tools, and who is to say that in 20 millenia
man
won't be back to the stone age.

In the end someone had the sense to ask archaeologists, and the
concensus
answer was pottery. Lasts easily for that length of time, and is not
very
intrinsically useful: break it and there are no sharp edges, it can't
really
be shaped in any worthwhile way. Make it rounded, so you can't build
with
it. Bury enough at the site that they have no rarity value and that
anyone
digging there will run into them, but not so many that they are worth
exploiting as a raw material (to ballast a boat, say, or to grind up to
make
grog tempered earthenware.) I always thought this was a fascinating
exercise.

I'm not sure at all if this can apply to all radioactive
materials, but one method is to encapsulate the radioactive
material in very small quantities into small glass beads. This
keeps the material seperated enough that fission will not occur
naturally regardless of the quantity at any given spot, and also
allows for the wide dispertion of the material (say underground
in stable strata or on the ocean floor) without any harm to the
environment (this last bit about the ocean is questionable, to be
sure). Would a subduction fault be a good place for the disposal
of these beads ... suck them down into the mantle where they can
decay over time?


The trouble with the beads is making sure no one finds them pretty and makes
them into jewellery. Remember Marie Curie and teh necklace she wore? Of
course they are only practical for low volume / high level waste (which is
just where they would be dangerous as trinkets). Ocean floor disposal deals
with that, but like you I wonder about its environmental impact.

The subduction zone idea ocurred to me as well - don't know if it has been
seriously considered but it does seem to be the ideal answer in so many
ways.



Peter

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:32:57 +0000, MarkH wrote:

wrote in :

Me, I think I'll take a DSLR that takes AA battery and a few GB of
compact flash, and a solar AA battery charger, and a GPS that writes
the tracklog to compact flash and virtually unlimited waypoint
storage, that also takes AA batteries

When you try to use the GPS you would introduce the word "DOH!" to the
ancient civilization.

When I read the OP, I had the best laugh for this day. thanks!