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DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 17th 07, 08:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
Troglodyte
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Posts: 5
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

Helmsman3 wrote:

The DSLR will have about the same fondness in 15 years as we do when looking
back on the flash-cube Instamatic from the late 60's with all its inherent
faults, drawbacks, and limitations. The phrase "I can't believe we put up with
those DSLRs back then," will be commonly heard.


I see you made no mention of the small sensor size of P&S cameras.
Otherwise I would agree with everything you said. I would rather have a
Nikon P&S with the swiveling LCD viewfinder than a DSLR any day but
first it has to match a DSLR image quality and due to the smaller sensor
it doesn't.
  #22  
Old November 17th 07, 08:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:44:42 +0900, "Wilba"
wrote in :

John Navas wrote:

Current EVF have gotten very good, and can now do things that can't be
done with an optical viewfinder, including 100% image, visible image in
very low light, and magnification while focusing, not to mention image
replay.


You left out the best one of all - histogram preview. :-)


True -- thanks!

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
  #23  
Old November 17th 07, 09:16 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
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Posts: 369
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

Troglodyte wrote:

I see you made no mention of the small sensor size of P&S cameras.
Otherwise I would agree with everything you said. I would rather have a
Nikon P&S with the swiveling LCD viewfinder than a DSLR any day but
first it has to match a DSLR image quality and due to the smaller sensor
it doesn't.


I love those swiveling LCDs like on the old Canon G series. Too bad
Canon dropped them on the G7 and G9, as well as worsening the lens and
not making it wide angle.

On my G2 I used some of those conversion lenses, with the adapter tube,
but the reality is that those adapter lenses are not good quality (they
vary from poor, to barely acceptable), plus it's a real pain to deal
with screwing on the adapter tube, removing and storing the ring that
has to come off the camera to install the tube, then screwing the
conversion lens onto the tube. Before I had a D-SLR, when I needed the
longer or wider zooms I simply used by film SLR (EOS-5 QD), as it's so
much more convenient to swap lenses on a bayonet mount. You can swap an
SLR lens in a few seconds, while the conversion lenses take a lot longer
to install and remove.

But you're right about the sensor size and the image quality, and
unfortunately you can count the number of large sensor point and shoots
on one hand, with several fingers left over.
  #24  
Old November 17th 07, 09:21 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
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Posts: 369
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

Neil Harrington wrote:
"GeraldG." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:43:11 -0500, "Neil Harrington"

wrote:

"Helmsman3" wrote in message
...


BTW, how many different names are you posting under?

Haven't hit on one you really like yet?


LOL, at least he keeps making everyone's kill-files longer and longer.
Hasn't been this much crap since "George Preddy" was around.

Here's my most current list:

























lid


















lid















lbo

































lid


















lid















lbo










  #25  
Old November 17th 07, 04:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
Doug McDonald
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Posts: 344
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

Wilba wrote:
John Navas wrote:
Current EVF have gotten very good, and can now do things that can't be
done with an optical viewfinder, including 100% image, visible image in
very low light, and magnification while focusing, not to mention image
replay.


You left out the best one of all - histogram preview. :-)



Oh my!!!

That's the killer, at least for some people. Does the 40D have it???

I would dearly love to have it.

Doug McDonald
  #26  
Old November 17th 07, 08:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:48:14 GMT, John Navas
wrote in
:

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:31:54 +0000, Tony Polson wrote in
:


Apparently the lenses were not designed by Leica, but by Panasonic.
Leica suggested some improvements to the designs and helped put in
place a quality control system that would ensure a consistent product,
but that is all.


Any proof of that? Industry people I respect tell me the lenses are in
fact designed by Leica, and that Leica monitors the quality control.

Moreover tests of these lenses confirm that they do measure up to Leica
standards; e.g., "everything you'd expect from Leica glass"
http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/4597/lens-test-panasonic-leica-d-summilux-25mm-f14-af.html


It seems you are right and my information was incorrect.
I've now found what would seem to be the definitive story.
The original page is missing (at the moment at least),
but is archived at
http://web.archive.org/web/20070624160310/http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/popup/behind_the_scenes/vol3.html
or http://tinyurl.com/3ble8x
In short:
* Lumix Leica lenses are designed by Panasonic
* Designs are reviewed and accepted or rejected by Leica
* Leica demands Leica level performance for acceptance
* Leica specifies manufacturing quality control
* Lumix Leica lenses exhibit Leica level performance
I personally think that makes them "real" Leica lenses,
but as always, YMMV.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
  #27  
Old November 17th 07, 08:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
Neil Harrington
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Posts: 2,001
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?


"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:31:54 +0000, Tony Polson wrote in
:

"Neil Harrington" wrote:

Well, "designed by Leica" is one thing and "built to Leica standards" is
another. You think E. Leitz has real Leitz employees scrupulously
inspecting
every "Leica" lens made somewhere in eastern or southeastern Asia?


These issues were discussed on a Leica forum about a year ago and
answers were obtained from Leica in Solms.

Apparently the lenses were not designed by Leica, but by Panasonic.
Leica suggested some improvements to the designs and helped put in
place a quality control system that would ensure a consistent product,
but that is all.


Any proof of that? Industry people I respect tell me the lenses are in
fact designed by Leica, and that Leica monitors the quality control.

Moreover tests of these lenses confirm that they do measure up to Leica
standards; e.g., "everything you'd expect from Leica glass"
http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/4597/lens-test-panasonic-leica-d-summilux-25mm-f14-af.html


That's "everything you'd expect from Leica glass" by Julia Silber, who in
the first paragraph uses "prime" when she means fixed focal length. I think
she's the only columnist in Pop Photo who does employ that popular but
ignorant misusage. (Herbert Keppler certainly never does.) Someone that
careless with language is not to be taken very seriously.

And she does not say that the lens was "designed by Leica" or that "Leica
monitors the quality control." She says, "Made in Japan by Panasonic to
Leica's specifications," which is all but meaningless.

Neil


  #28  
Old November 17th 07, 08:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
Neil Harrington
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Posts: 2,001
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?


"SMS ???. ?" wrote in message
...
Neil Harrington wrote:
"GeraldG." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:43:11 -0500, "Neil Harrington"

wrote:

"Helmsman3" wrote in message
...


BTW, how many different names are you posting under?

Haven't hit on one you really like yet?


LOL, at least he keeps making everyone's kill-files longer and longer.
Hasn't been this much crap since "George Preddy" was around.

Here's my most current list:

























lid


















lid















lbo

































lid


















lid















lbo











GOOD GRIEF!

He must have a lot of time on his hands, and nothing to do with it but
troll. How pathetic is that?

Neil


  #29  
Old November 17th 07, 08:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
Neil Harrington
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?


"SMS ???. ?" wrote in message
...
Troglodyte wrote:

I see you made no mention of the small sensor size of P&S cameras.
Otherwise I would agree with everything you said. I would rather have a
Nikon P&S with the swiveling LCD viewfinder than a DSLR any day but first
it has to match a DSLR image quality and due to the smaller sensor it
doesn't.


I love those swiveling LCDs like on the old Canon G series. Too bad Canon
dropped them on the G7 and G9, as well as worsening the lens and not
making it wide angle.


Yep, I love 'em on my Nikon Coolpix 8xxx cameras too. And Nikon no longer
makes cameras like those either, looks like they never will again.


On my G2 I used some of those conversion lenses, with the adapter tube,
but the reality is that those adapter lenses are not good quality (they
vary from poor, to barely acceptable), plus it's a real pain to deal with
screwing on the adapter tube, removing and storing the ring that has to
come off the camera to install the tube, then screwing the conversion lens
onto the tube. Before I had a D-SLR, when I needed the longer or wider
zooms I simply used by film SLR (EOS-5 QD), as it's so much more
convenient to swap lenses on a bayonet mount. You can swap an SLR lens in
a few seconds, while the conversion lenses take a lot longer to install
and remove.


Agreed. I only have a couple of Nikon's conversion lenses, haven't yet used
'em enough to really tell how good they are, though they seem okay on
quickie trials. But those screw-on adapter tubes sure are a nuisance just as
you say. That's really the chief reason I *haven't* used the lenses much,
though I've owned them for some time.

Neil


  #30  
Old November 17th 07, 09:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr,rec.photo.misc
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

Neil Harrington wrote:

snip

That's "everything you'd expect from Leica glass" by Julia Silber, who in
the first paragraph uses "prime" when she means fixed focal length. I think
she's the only columnist in Pop Photo who does employ that popular but
ignorant misusage. (Herbert Keppler certainly never does.) Someone that
careless with language is not to be taken very seriously.

And she does not say that the lens was "designed by Leica" or that "Leica
monitors the quality control." She says, "Made in Japan by Panasonic to
Leica's specifications," which is all but meaningless.


And of course you realize, given the poster's extremely long history of
complete fabrications, never with any citations, references, or names,
that "industry people I respect" does not mean that he actually knows,
or has talked to, anyone remotely connected to the industry in question.
 




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