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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 7th 13, 02:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lens by $1000

Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-03-05 14:35:32 -0800, Rob said:
On 6/03/2013 1:08 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Rob wrote:
The 70-300 is quarter the price. Half the weight 745gms/1570 gms

If that lens is satisfactory, then you have no need at
all for the new 80-400mm lens. But the 70-300mm is not
equal to the older 80-400mm AF-D lens, and is no where
near the same as the new lens.


I do have the 70-300 lens and find it light to carry
and stay mobile, running up and down a beach.


My old 80-400mm (bought in 2004 for $1400) has become a
dust collector and hasn't been a regular occupant of my
bag since 2009. The 70-300mm VR is a surprisingly good
value and performer, and the only areas in which the
70-300mm VR is not equal to the old 80-400mm is in the
80-400mm's unbelievably poor low light performance, slow
focus and the only performance benefit, the extra reach.
I certainly couldn't have made this capture with the 80-400mm.
http://db.tt/6SuM0WTp


Relatively what you say is true. The 80-400mm has the
advantage of a focal length range that extends to 400mm
vs 300mm and being about equal to the 70-300mm at 300mm.
For many purposes that has great significance, and of
course for many others it has none. The 80-400mm is not
exactly great in any way at 400mm focal length, but it
is nearly as good in the center of the frame at 400mm as
the 70-300mm is at 300mm.

The 80-400mm uses the built in focus motor, so the top
of the line models (such as the D2X, D3, and D4) would
see significantly less difference between the 80-400mm
and the 70-300mm compared to what would be experienced
by other bodies in terms of AF, particularly in low
light. That might color the experience of some users
compared to the experience of others.

Regardless of all of that, the new 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G
lens appears to be more significantly better than the
70-300mm in every way than that lens is over the older
80-400mm in any way.

The biggest thing to note in the MTF curves for the new
lens is the match between the sagittal curves and the
meridional curves. To compare lenses, the lower value
of the two curves is probably the most significant. For
example the 70-300mm at 15mm from the image center has
an S30 value of 0.74 and an M30 value of 0.55, while the
older 80-400mm has S30 at 0.80 and M30 at 0.47. The S30
value is higher for the 80-400mm, but *what counts* is
that it's M30 is lower by 0.07, which is significant but
not huge.

On the other hand the new 80-400mm G lens has S30 at
0.73 and M30 at 0.74. Not only is that a very large
jump above the 0.55 of the 70-300mm, the fact that the S
and M values are so close indicates virtually no
astigmatism with the 80-400mm G.

In fact the 80-400mm G lens, at 20mm from the center
(basically this is in the very diagonal corners of a
full frame image) has S30 at 0.65 and M30 at 0.67, still
showing no astigmatism and being sharper than the 70-300
is even at 10mm from the center (M30 is 0.55).

*To put it mildly, the new 80-400mm G is a much sharper*
*lens than the 70-300mm G.*

It doesn't mean everyone will value that sharpness higher
than the 70-300mm when also accounting for weight and
cost. But there is little doubt that those who
seriously shoot sports and wildlife are going to snap up
this lens immediately.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #12  
Old March 7th 13, 09:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug McDonald[_6_]
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Posts: 157
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 3/7/2013 7:13 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

On the other hand the new 80-400mm G lens has S30 at
0.73 and M30 at 0.74. Not only is that a very large
jump above the 0.55 of the 70-300mm, the fact that the S
and M values are so close indicates virtually no
astigmatism with the 80-400mm G.

In fact the 80-400mm G lens, at 20mm from the center
(basically this is in the very diagonal corners of a
full frame image) has S30 at 0.65 and M30 at 0.67, still
showing no astigmatism and being sharper than the 70-300
is even at 10mm from the center (M30 is 0.55).



Have the same S and M values does NOT imply that there is no
astigmatism!

That's because these are white light MTFs. Therefore they include
lateral chromatic aberration. A lens could have lateral chromatic
plus astigmatism adding up the the same blur in S and M.

Of course, having both small is better. Nevertheless, white light
MTF has the problem that if part is lateral chromatic, and it is small,
one can digitally fix it. What one needs is both white light MTF and
MTF in R, G, and B.

Doug McDonald
  #13  
Old March 9th 13, 03:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
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Posts: 703
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 3/5/2013 9:19 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
I agree with much of what you say, but:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, but only if
I use center focus. My Nikon TC extenders will not fit because of the
protrusion of the rear element. It does fit on the Kenko 1.4, but the
image is horribly soft.
I have no reservations about trying the new 80-400. but only if it will
work with a 1.4 extender, as I would like a 500mm.



On those very rare occasions I can use my 500mm f5.6 Mamiya MF lens -
used manually, attached with a Zork converter. ( Nobody wanted to give
me any money for the lens so I kept it)



I have an old 500 mirror that I try every so often. I have rarely been
happy with the results. For most birds, you cannot have too much lens.
Similarly, you can't have too much money.

--
PeterN
  #14  
Old March 9th 13, 03:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 703
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300,



Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor?

Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor.

I could manually focus, my 80-200 2.8, faster.



--
PeterN
  #15  
Old March 9th 13, 05:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 9/03/2013 1:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:19 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
I agree with much of what you say, but:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, but only if
I use center focus. My Nikon TC extenders will not fit because of the
protrusion of the rear element. It does fit on the Kenko 1.4, but the
image is horribly soft.
I have no reservations about trying the new 80-400. but only if it will
work with a 1.4 extender, as I would like a 500mm.



On those very rare occasions I can use my 500mm f5.6 Mamiya MF lens -
used manually, attached with a Zork converter. ( Nobody wanted to give
me any money for the lens so I kept it)



I have an old 500 mirror that I try every so often. I have rarely been
happy with the results. For most birds, you cannot have too much lens.
Similarly, you can't have too much money.



Tried mirror lenses, they lack DOF and a bit soft maybe the brand (sigma?)

My glass I can control DOF.
  #16  
Old March 9th 13, 07:07 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lens by $1000

PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300,



Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor?

Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor.


The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #17  
Old March 9th 13, 09:49 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 9/03/2013 7:07 p.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300,


Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor?

Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor.


The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery.


The D800 has the same battery as the D7000.
I tested D70/90/300/700 using a screw-driven macro lens from closest to
infinity, and the motor drive speed was identical (ie - not just
"close"), despite it being "common knowledge" that the more "pro" bodies
had stronger AF motors.
Sure, the D800 might have a faster AF drive motor, but TBH I doubt it,
as until now Nikon seem to reserve this for pro models with integrated grip.
  #18  
Old March 9th 13, 03:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 9/03/2013 7:49 PM, Me wrote:
On 9/03/2013 7:07 p.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300,


Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor?

Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor.


The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery.


The D800 has the same battery as the D7000.
I tested D70/90/300/700 using a screw-driven macro lens from closest to
infinity, and the motor drive speed was identical (ie - not just
"close"), despite it being "common knowledge" that the more "pro" bodies
had stronger AF motors.
Sure, the D800 might have a faster AF drive motor, but TBH I doubt it,
as until now Nikon seem to reserve this for pro models with integrated
grip.



batteries should have no effect. The only thing I notice is the
relationship between CCD and CMOS sensors - CMOS uses far less power.

The 800 has a bigger body and may fit a larger more powerful motor. The
D800 is getting very pro'ish

Ill have to check with an old lens to make that comparison with between
D90 D200 D800. the lens that I started to use regularly now is my old
18-35 but didn't take any notice of speed as it was bought back when I
was using a D100 for a wide angle lens.
  #19  
Old March 9th 13, 03:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 703
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000

On 3/8/2013 11:12 PM, Rob wrote:
On 9/03/2013 1:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:19 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
I agree with much of what you say, but:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, but only if
I use center focus. My Nikon TC extenders will not fit because of the
protrusion of the rear element. It does fit on the Kenko 1.4, but the
image is horribly soft.
I have no reservations about trying the new 80-400. but only if it will
work with a 1.4 extender, as I would like a 500mm.


On those very rare occasions I can use my 500mm f5.6 Mamiya MF lens -
used manually, attached with a Zork converter. ( Nobody wanted to give
me any money for the lens so I kept it)



I have an old 500 mirror that I try every so often. I have rarely been
happy with the results. For most birds, you cannot have too much lens.
Similarly, you can't have too much money.



Tried mirror lenses, they lack DOF and a bit soft maybe the brand (sigma?)

My glass I can control DOF.


Nikon circa 1979. I bought it used for about $100. Every o often I try
it, but have rarely been happy with the results.

--
PeterN
  #20  
Old March 9th 13, 05:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lens by $1000

Rob wrote:
On 9/03/2013 7:49 PM, Me wrote:
On 9/03/2013 7:07 p.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote:
my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300,


Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor?

Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor.

The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery.


The D800 has the same battery as the D7000.
I tested D70/90/300/700 using a screw-driven macro lens from closest to
infinity, and the motor drive speed was identical (ie - not just
"close"), despite it being "common knowledge" that the more "pro" bodies
had stronger AF motors.
Sure, the D800 might have a faster AF drive motor, but TBH I doubt it,
as until now Nikon seem to reserve this for pro models with integrated
grip.


batteries should have no effect.


The D800 can be fitted with a MB-D12 battery grip, which
allows use of AA cells or the same EN-EL18 battery used
by the D4. Because of that, the D800 can have a more
powerful built in focus motor, and it certainly can detect
which battery is in use. It may or may not have firmware
that controls use of full power to the AF motor depending
on the actual battery being used.

I use a D800 powered by EN-EL18 batteries, and while I
haven't made any attempt to measure auto focus timing
with AF-D lenses I do use three different AF-D lenses
with both a D800 and a D4 and have not noticed any
difference.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
 




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