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Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 27th 13, 03:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Robert Coe
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Posts: 4,901
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 04:33:28 -0900, (Floyd L. Davidson)
wrote:
: me wrote:
: On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 08:12:13 +0000, David Taylor
: wrote:
:
: O
: At the point where I was ready to buy a DSLR, I went into the camera
: store (the now-defunct Jessops, Edinburgh) and held both the Canon and
: Nikon equivalent cameras to see which I preferred. The Nikon won, so
: I've been Nikon ever since. I had no legacy lenses having sold off my
: film SLR stuff while I could still get some money for it. I have not
: been disappointed, and agree with some of the comments about Canon vs.
: Nikon in this thread. I think both companies are in it for the long
: term, although both will face competition from the newer mirrorless
: cameras.
:
: I wholeheartedly agree with the above. I would just also explicitly
: mention besides the look and feel of the outside camera controls, it
: might behoove one to delve into the menu system as well and see if its
: layout makes sense to you.
:
: If you actually use the camera, in six months or less
: the "look and feel" of virtually any DSLR will become
: comfortable. The same is true of the controls, both
: hardware and menu driven.

That's a perfectly valid personal opinion, but it's unsupported by any actual
evidence. And I think it's fair to say that not everyone in this group accepts
that it's true. One supposes that it represents your own experience, but it
would help us understand if you told us what that experience is. How, in fact,
did you choose the camera system you use (Nikon, IIRC), and how, if at all,
did "look and feel" (or any of the criteria you disparage in the following
paragraph) enter into your decision?

: I suspect that most of those who buy cameras based on
: the feel of the camera, the color of the lenses, the
: sound of the shutter, minor price variations, which one
: some other photog uses, what the Walmart salesman says,
: or for that matter what they read in forums such as this
: on the Internet... get what they deserve. That is,
: they'll really admire the camera sitting on the coffee
: table and enjoy the conversations about it.
:
: Other folks that chose their camera based on which one
: does the best job for their style of photography will
: have conversations about their photographs rather than
: about their camera.

And how, exactly, are those other folks supposed to figure out which camera
does the best job for their style of photography? Buy them all and then use
the one they like best? You've told the OP to ignore look and feel, his
observations of other photographers, the advice of salesmen, and our answers
to his questions. So how should he go about making his decision?

Bob
  #12  
Old January 27th 13, 05:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
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Posts: 703
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/26/2013 7:33 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
I come from a background of an old Pentax K mount SLR film camera and a
long period away from photography. A couple of years ago I bought a
cheap super-zoom digital fixed lens just to find out what the digital
revolution was about. I am now frustrated with its limitations and
looking to go DSLR. I don't have a lot of money but enough to get
started. I like to photograph the natural world: eagles, landscapes,
insects and flowers. I can see the budget will have to cover several
lenses eventually (sigh).

Given the price of lenses once you start with a system (eg Nikon or
Canon) you tend to stay with it, I don't see that many are going to jump
from one to the other although I suppose its possible. This explains
why people stick to a system but not why they selected it in the first
place. I know there are other systems but for the point of discussion
let's stick to those two. Why choose one over the other? A couple of
possibilities come to mind, no doubt there are plenty that I haven't
thought of.

One is that the buyer was attracted to a particular body at a point in
time and bought lenses to go with it. This suggests that at some other
point in time they could have gone with the opposition if they had a
body in their line-up that attracted the buyer more. This implies that
there is no intrinsic difference between the competitors but that over
time their systems leapfrog each other in appeal according to the models
in the catalog.

Another is that there is some intrinsic difference between the systems.
As neither seem to be fading into oblivion if such a difference exists
it seems to be one of style or approach not of basic suitability for
purpose. Is there such a difference? If so what is? What kind of
photographer is attracted to one or the other?

I suppose a third is that they were given a Nikon or that Daddy always
used Canon and that is what they learned on, that is the photographer
didn't really choose but fell into it. I have no such initial conditions.

There could be other reasons for choosing one system over another. What?

Is this issue covered on the WWW or in any literature? Where?

I am after such general advice that comes from experience and not from
sales brochures. If you recommend one or the other I am more interested
in the reason why than the recommendation itself, as I might have
different needs and abilities to yours. I am not trying to start a
flame war, I have no axe to grind nor (I hope) any preconceived ideas.


What Bob Coe said makes a lot of sense. I started out with Nikon, and
stuck with it because my lenses worked with my DSLR. That the Nikon
repair center is located a few minutes from where I live, was also a
factor in my decision.
Don't be mislead by those who will start a Nikon v Canon, war. Just tune
them out. Either Nikon or Canon will make a good choice. If you really
will use you Pentax lenses, go for compatibility. You decision really
depends on your planned use, and the depth of your wallet.


--
PeterN
  #13  
Old January 27th 13, 10:37 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Hare-Scott
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Posts: 89
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Other folks that chose their camera based on which one
does the best job for their style of photography will
have conversations about their photographs rather than
about their camera.


OK, then in what way do the major manufacturers suit different styles, or
are you saying it is always down to the individual model?

D

  #14  
Old January 27th 13, 10:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Hare-Scott
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Posts: 89
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical


What Bob Coe said makes a lot of sense. I started out with Nikon, and
stuck with it because my lenses worked with my DSLR. That the Nikon
repair center is located a few minutes from where I live, was also a
factor in my decision.
Don't be mislead by those who will start a Nikon v Canon, war. Just
tune them out. Either Nikon or Canon will make a good choice. If you
really will use you Pentax lenses, go for compatibility. You decision
really depends on your planned use, and the depth of your wallet.


I have to start from zero, my old Pentax lens are either gone or damaged.

D
  #15  
Old January 27th 13, 11:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
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Posts: 703
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/27/2013 4:40 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

What Bob Coe said makes a lot of sense. I started out with Nikon, and
stuck with it because my lenses worked with my DSLR. That the Nikon
repair center is located a few minutes from where I live, was also a
factor in my decision.
Don't be mislead by those who will start a Nikon v Canon, war. Just
tune them out. Either Nikon or Canon will make a good choice. If you
really will use you Pentax lenses, go for compatibility. You decision
really depends on your planned use, and the depth of your wallet.


I have to start from zero, my old Pentax lens are either gone or damaged.
D


Choosing a camera line is a highly personal thing. Most cameras will
take decent pictures, so it comes down to the bells and whistles. And
which system has the features that you will actually use.
e.g. Nikon will allow multiple exposures on one image. I use that
feature, others may not. I don't think Canon has that feature.
Most Canon cameras will allow 2 stop bracketing, in the Nikon line, I
think only the D4 has that feature. Most Nikons have only 1 stop
bracketing. The D800 is a ufll frame with 36 Megapixels, allowing very
high resolution. Just an hour ago I was talking with someone who thinks
that is too much information, and he disposed of his D800. I mentioned
only a few features that one has and the other does not. Only you can
sit down and compare which line has those features you will use.

Whichever decision you make will be the right one.

--
PeterN
  #16  
Old January 28th 13, 02:05 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

PeterN wrote:
Most Canon cameras will allow 2 stop bracketing, in the
Nikon line, I think only the D4 has that feature. Most
Nikons have only 1 stop bracketing.


Nikon cameras have various different bracketing options.
The entry level 3000 series does not have bracketing of
any kind. The 5000 series has 3 steps of up to 1/2 EV
per step. The D7000 also has 3 steps, but they can be
up to 2 EV per step too.

The high end models, from the D300 to the D800 and the
D4 all have 9 steps at up to 1 EV per step. That means
the camera can be set to high speed continuous with a
maximum of 9 frames, and with Auto Bracketing set to 9
steps 1 EV apart each press of the shutter will bracket
from -4 EV to +4 EV.

I would assume that various Canon models are just as
functional, but I don't know.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #17  
Old January 28th 13, 11:21 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Andrew Haley
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Posts: 141
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

David Hare-Scott wrote:

I am after such general advice that comes from experience and not
from sales brochures. If you recommend one or the other I am more
interested in the reason why than the recommendation itself, as I
might have different needs and abilities to yours. I am not trying
to start a flame war, I have no axe to grind nor (I hope) any
preconceived ideas.


What really matters is where the systems are going in the next few
years/decades. Today, you'll be fine with either Nikon or Canon.

It wasn't always so. Around 2005-2007, it seemed to me that Nikon had
lost the fight: Canon had the 1Ds Mark II and the 5D, both
high-performing full-frame (35mm) digital cameras, and Nikon had
nothing comparable. I was seriously worried that Nikon had given up
trying, and I'd have to abandon a bagful of Nikkors. Some
professionals were reported to have done exactly that.

Thankfully, it wasn't to last, and Nikon woke up. I now use a Nikon
D800.

Andrew.
  #18  
Old January 28th 13, 06:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug McDonald[_6_]
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Posts: 157
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/28/2013 4:21 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
What really matters is where the systems are going in the next few
years/decades. Today, you'll be fine with either Nikon or Canon.

It wasn't always so. Around 2005-2007, it seemed to me that Nikon had
lost the fight: Canon had the 1Ds Mark II and the 5D, both
high-performing full-frame (35mm) digital cameras, and Nikon had
nothing comparable. I was seriously worried that Nikon had given up
trying, and I'd have to abandon a bagful of Nikkors. Some
professionals were reported to have done exactly that.

Thankfully, it wasn't to last, and Nikon woke up. I now use a Nikon
D800.


so Nikon is ahead in that area at the moment. But ... it won't last.
Canon will come out with a competitive offering soon, and will beat
Nikon in some other area.

The obvious need now is a mirrorless and (mechanically) shutterless camera with a really really good
autofocus system that takes images continuously, say at 16 or 24 or 60 Hz,
and stores the exact one that happened when you pressed the button,
plus a few on each side. Zero shutter lag.

Doug McDonald



  #19  
Old January 29th 13, 12:55 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
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Posts: 703
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/27/2013 8:05 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Most Canon cameras will allow 2 stop bracketing, in the
Nikon line, I think only the D4 has that feature. Most
Nikons have only 1 stop bracketing.


Nikon cameras have various different bracketing options.
The entry level 3000 series does not have bracketing of
any kind. The 5000 series has 3 steps of up to 1/2 EV
per step. The D7000 also has 3 steps, but they can be
up to 2 EV per step too.

The high end models, from the D300 to the D800 and the
D4 all have 9 steps at up to 1 EV per step. That means
the camera can be set to high speed continuous with a
maximum of 9 frames, and with Auto Bracketing set to 9
steps 1 EV apart each press of the shutter will bracket
from -4 EV to +4 EV.

I would assume that various Canon models are just as
functional, but I don't know.


I am well aware of bracketing stops. The only Nikon that has 2EV per
stop, is the D4.

--
PeterN
  #20  
Old January 29th 13, 03:49 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

PeterN wrote:
On 1/27/2013 8:05 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Most Canon cameras will allow 2 stop bracketing, in the
Nikon line, I think only the D4 has that feature. Most
Nikons have only 1 stop bracketing.


Nikon cameras have various different bracketing options.
The entry level 3000 series does not have bracketing of
any kind. The 5000 series has 3 steps of up to 1/2 EV
per step. The D7000 also has 3 steps, but they can be
up to 2 EV per step too.

The high end models, from the D300 to the D800 and the
D4 all have 9 steps at up to 1 EV per step. That means
the camera can be set to high speed continuous with a
maximum of 9 frames, and with Auto Bracketing set to 9
steps 1 EV apart each press of the shutter will bracket
from -4 EV to +4 EV.

I would assume that various Canon models are just as
functional, but I don't know.


I am well aware of bracketing stops. The only Nikon that
has 2EV per stop, is the D4.


You don't seem to be too aware... The D4 does not have 2
EV bracket steps.

Read what I wrote, it's accurate.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
 




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