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Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 9th 07, 01:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Dave[_14_]
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Posts: 17
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?

i own the Canon 30D, and so far all Canon lenses.

thanks, dave

  #2  
Old August 9th 07, 02:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
frederick
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Posts: 1,525
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

Dave wrote:
i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?

i own the Canon 30D, and so far all Canon lenses.

thanks, dave


There's always arguments about filters. I tended to dismiss the
significance of image degradation from filters as exaggeration.
But I've got a couple of 77mm UV filters, one a Hoya Multicoated one,
the other an uncoated Kenco (supposed to be Hoya Glass?).
On a wide angle lens, I can't normally see any image quality difference
between the filters. If flare/ghosting is a problem with the uncoated
one, it's only reduced by using the multicoated one - not eliminated, in
which case results are much better with no filter at all.
At 200mm f2.8, I thought that my lens was faulty, as images were
significantly blurred. I was very surprised to see that when I changed
to using the MC filter, image quality was much better. It seems to me
that filter quality is much more critical as focal length increases.
I will buy only multicoated filters in future. But, as they are
expensive, I'm less inclined to want to clean them when working in
dusty/dirty/wet environments with the corner of a shirt or whatever
happens to be handy. For now, I leave the uncoated filter on my wide
angle lens, but remove it when ghosting is a potential problem. Because
the wide angle lens front element and filter is so exposed, it gets
dirty very quickly in outdoor environments, and using just a lens cap
and no filter would be very inconvenient having to remove and replace it
between shots.
YMMV
  #3  
Old August 9th 07, 05:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Pat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 517
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

On Aug 8, 8:32 pm, Dave wrote:
i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?

i own the Canon 30D, and so far all Canon lenses.

thanks, dave


Gee, I didn't think they make a truly uncoated filter anymore. But
anyway, if they do, don't buy it. When light crosses an angle, it
splits like a prism. So as the ligh passes through the lens elements,
it creates little prisms as it goes. That's why the image quality is
bad.

The purpose of the coatings are to keep all of the separate colors of
light reflecting evenly and thus enhancing the image quality.

Back in the day, Isaac Newton realized the problem but didn't discover
coatings, so instead he solved the problem by inventing the mirror
lens. The reflections didn't degrade.

  #4  
Old August 9th 07, 10:39 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Bob Salomon
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Posts: 175
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

In article . com,
Dave wrote:

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?


Not quite. neutral density filters are gray, not clear. A MC Protection
filter should be clear glass with no hint of a yellow, salmon, gray or
any other color or tone. An example of one is the Heliopan SH-PMC
Protection filter.

UV, Skylight, Haze and ND filters are not clear glass protection
filters. Although they can all be used as one.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
  #5  
Old August 9th 07, 05:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

Dave wrote:
i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.


Best to avoid contact with anything (dust) on the surface. Gently
remove that with a blower and if required a fine, gentle brush. Once
removed, then a microfibre cloth can be used to remove spots (skin oil,
moisture residue). And finally, Kodak lens cleaner (tiny amounts) to
get rid of any remaining residue.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?


ND is to reduce light allowing larger apertures at a given speed (or
slower speeds at a given aperture. (constant ISO of course).

For most digital cameras a "Neutral Color" filter can be used for
protection.

I recently bought a Nikon NC (multicoated) for this purpose (I don't use
"protection" filters unless needed, and for a 77mm lens with the front
element really exposed it was needed).

Cheers,
Alan

--
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  #6  
Old August 9th 07, 05:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

On Aug 8, 8:32 pm, Dave wrote:
i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?

i own the Canon 30D, and so far all Canon lenses.

thanks, dave


Camera owners are often clueless about how to treat lenses or
filters. "Cleaning cloths" should never be used. Cleaning tissues
used once. Never use circular strokes as this can drag abraisive dirt
around. The process should be: Blow with air, lens brush, then clean
with a NON-dry tissue. Always use lens cleaner.
If you don't care about the coatings on the filters, do what you
like. As for filter use, multicoated, single-coated or not coated, it
doesn't matter. Point into any light sources and you will likely get
flare. Other times filters (clean ones, untinted) should present no
problem unless they are really crappy. If you look through a filter
and tilt it back and forth and the image moves or distorts, throw the
filter out.

  #7  
Old August 9th 07, 07:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Toby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters


"frederick" wrote in message
news:1186622322.925846@ftpsrv1...
Dave wrote:
i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?

i own the Canon 30D, and so far all Canon lenses.

thanks, dave


There's always arguments about filters. I tended to dismiss the
significance of image degradation from filters as exaggeration.
But I've got a couple of 77mm UV filters, one a Hoya Multicoated one, the
other an uncoated Kenco (supposed to be Hoya Glass?).
On a wide angle lens, I can't normally see any image quality difference
between the filters. If flare/ghosting is a problem with the uncoated
one, it's only reduced by using the multicoated one - not eliminated, in
which case results are much better with no filter at all.
At 200mm f2.8, I thought that my lens was faulty, as images were
significantly blurred. I was very surprised to see that when I changed to
using the MC filter, image quality was much better. It seems to me that
filter quality is much more critical as focal length increases.
I will buy only multicoated filters in future. But, as they are
expensive, I'm less inclined to want to clean them when working in
dusty/dirty/wet environments with the corner of a shirt or whatever
happens to be handy. For now, I leave the uncoated filter on my wide
angle lens, but remove it when ghosting is a potential problem. Because
the wide angle lens front element and filter is so exposed, it gets dirty
very quickly in outdoor environments, and using just a lens cap and no
filter would be very inconvenient having to remove and replace it between
shots.
YMMV


It is absolutely true that as focal length increases filter quality becomes
more important. You can convince yourself of this by shooting first through
window glass and then in the open with a wide angle and then tele lens,
blowing up to 100% and comparing the results.

That being said, I recently did a series of tests with a normal MC lens
protector on a 17-70 zoom at 70 and compared pix with the filter on and off.
If there was a slight degradation it was almost invisible, and the slightest
focusing error masked it.

While a few small scratches on the front element of a lens are not really
critical, I personally keep filters on all my lenses, and no one has ever
complained about sharpness.

Toby


  #8  
Old August 9th 07, 10:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
frederick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,525
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

Toby wrote:
"frederick" wrote in message
news:1186622322.925846@ftpsrv1...
Dave wrote:
i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?

i own the Canon 30D, and so far all Canon lenses.

thanks, dave

There's always arguments about filters. I tended to dismiss the
significance of image degradation from filters as exaggeration.
But I've got a couple of 77mm UV filters, one a Hoya Multicoated one, the
other an uncoated Kenco (supposed to be Hoya Glass?).
On a wide angle lens, I can't normally see any image quality difference
between the filters. If flare/ghosting is a problem with the uncoated
one, it's only reduced by using the multicoated one - not eliminated, in
which case results are much better with no filter at all.
At 200mm f2.8, I thought that my lens was faulty, as images were
significantly blurred. I was very surprised to see that when I changed to
using the MC filter, image quality was much better. It seems to me that
filter quality is much more critical as focal length increases.
I will buy only multicoated filters in future. But, as they are
expensive, I'm less inclined to want to clean them when working in
dusty/dirty/wet environments with the corner of a shirt or whatever
happens to be handy. For now, I leave the uncoated filter on my wide
angle lens, but remove it when ghosting is a potential problem. Because
the wide angle lens front element and filter is so exposed, it gets dirty
very quickly in outdoor environments, and using just a lens cap and no
filter would be very inconvenient having to remove and replace it between
shots.
YMMV


It is absolutely true that as focal length increases filter quality becomes
more important. You can convince yourself of this by shooting first through
window glass and then in the open with a wide angle and then tele lens,
blowing up to 100% and comparing the results.

That being said, I recently did a series of tests with a normal MC lens
protector on a 17-70 zoom at 70 and compared pix with the filter on and off.
If there was a slight degradation it was almost invisible, and the slightest
focusing error masked it.

While a few small scratches on the front element of a lens are not really
critical, I personally keep filters on all my lenses, and no one has ever
complained about sharpness.

Toby


It seemed to also be affected by aperture. At f8 or so the shots at
200mm looked okay, but at F2.8 they were very bad.

I agree that a few minor scratches are often not critical - except when
it comes to selling the lens. But OTOH, using extreme wide angle (10mm)
with filter, small aperture for maximim DOF, and focusing on an object
only a meter or so away, then small smudges on a filter do become visible.
  #9  
Old August 10th 07, 04:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul Furman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,367
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

Alan Browne wrote:

Dave wrote:

i did a ton of travelling earlier this year and got my camera lenses
quite dirty at times. (did my best to keep them clean but i was in
crazy places...)

i wiped them gently with anti-static cloths but i didn't feel good
about it.


Best to avoid contact with anything (dust) on the surface. Gently
remove that with a blower and if required a fine, gentle brush. Once
removed, then a microfibre cloth can be used to remove spots (skin oil,
moisture residue). And finally, Kodak lens cleaner (tiny amounts) to
get rid of any remaining residue.

should i buy "Multicoated" lens covers (i believe a.k.a. Neutral
Density Glass Filters)? has anyone used them?


ND is to reduce light allowing larger apertures at a given speed (or
slower speeds at a given aperture. (constant ISO of course).

For most digital cameras a "Neutral Color" filter can be used for
protection.

I recently bought a Nikon NC (multicoated) for this purpose (I don't use
"protection" filters unless needed, and for a 77mm lens with the front
element really exposed it was needed).


I purchased an old 300mm f/2.8 with a flawless front element (looks
beautiful). The seller had gone out & bought a new NC filter for selling
it because his old one was trashed and that's how he worked, he assumed
the buyer would want one. So I use it because it seems so exposed & hard
to protect without the monsterous lens shade attached... though I wonder
if it effects image quality. That's the only lens I use one on. I got
another for my 45/2.8 because it was part of the factory package but
that has a lens shade I leave on which protects the front just fine so I
took the NC filter off. If anyone wants a Nikon 52mm NC filter, I got
one for ya.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com
  #10  
Old August 10th 07, 09:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Tony Polson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,194
Default Thoughts on "Multicoated" lens filters

Paul Furman wrote:

I purchased an old 300mm f/2.8 with a flawless front element (looks
beautiful). The seller had gone out & bought a new NC filter for selling
it because his old one was trashed and that's how he worked, he assumed
the buyer would want one. So I use it because it seems so exposed & hard
to protect without the monsterous lens shade attached... though I wonder
if it effects image quality.



No-one has ever produced comparison shots that showed any
deterioration in image quality when using a good quality filter. So
don't worry.

I have done my own careful comparisons with modern lenses and found no
discernible difference.

What I have seen is comparisons where older lenses (with poor coatings
by modern standards) were used with uncoated filters. The flare was
certainly significant.

Moral of the story: If you want to protect your investment in quality
modern lenses without having any discernible effect on your images,
always fit a top quality multicoated UV filter.

From a practical point of view, avoid Hoya HMC multicoated filters
because they are extremely difficult to keep clean. I strongly
recommend B+W, Heliopan and Nikon brand filters. They can all be
found discounted on eBay.


 




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