Sometimes stupid loses

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:13:47 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

And you think they don't? Read the "National Rifleman" for a few
months. They don't report many things because of what happened to
people like Bernie Goetz, and he was an exception because he
actually had to shoot a few people. In most instances just the mere
possession of the weapon is enough to thwart a crime. In my case,
just my attitude when carrying was enough in many instances to
prevent any potential trouble. Its the, "I know something that you
don't know" attitude I am speaking of.

Somehow I'm picturing a gun-owners version of letters to Penthouse.

Picture whatever you want. But the fact is, I am still alive.

This is one of the reasons I don't believe the figures in the Kleck
report. Bill has alluded to being able to fend off two muggers
because he carries. In some posts, the gun "saved his ass". Now he's
coming close to "the gun saved my life" while saying - at the same
time - his attitude discouraged his attackers. I think he mentioned
something about the gun saving him from getting beaten up in one post.
The story changes.

If enough people like Bill were the recipient of Kleck's 5,000 call
phone survey, there's little chance *real* facts were recorded. A
threatening looking person standing across the street without ever
approaching the respondent can go down as a DGU success story. The
real facts become confused with the "what I wudda done" and "what
cudda happened" memories.






--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...


This is one of the reasons I don't believe the figures in the Kleck
report. Bill has alluded to being able to fend off two muggers
because he carries. In some posts, the gun "saved his ass". Now he's
coming close to "the gun saved my life" while saying - at the same
time - his attitude discouraged his attackers. I think he mentioned
something about the gun saving him from getting beaten up in one post.
The story changes.

If enough people like Bill were the recipient of Kleck's 5,000 call
phone survey, there's little chance *real* facts were recorded. A
threatening looking person standing across the street without ever
approaching the respondent can go down as a DGU success story. The
real facts become confused with the "what I wudda done" and "what
cudda happened" memories.

Again: Kleck has made it clear that in his last survey everything possible
was done to make sure the accounts involved defense against some actual,
threatening person or persons. Not "a threatening looking person standing
across the street" or anything like that.

Also, from the FBI statistics I've seen from time to time over the years,
the numbers of justified killings by ordinary citizens have been comparable
to the numbers of such killings by police officers. And in the opinion of
some researchers, the civilians' justified killings have probably been
greatly underreported, for fairly obvious reasons.

On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 16:09:15 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"tony cooper" wrote in message
.. .


This is one of the reasons I don't believe the figures in the Kleck
report. Bill has alluded to being able to fend off two muggers
because he carries. In some posts, the gun "saved his ass". Now he's
coming close to "the gun saved my life" while saying - at the same
time - his attitude discouraged his attackers. I think he mentioned
something about the gun saving him from getting beaten up in one post.
The story changes.

If enough people like Bill were the recipient of Kleck's 5,000 call
phone survey, there's little chance *real* facts were recorded. A
threatening looking person standing across the street without ever
approaching the respondent can go down as a DGU success story. The
real facts become confused with the "what I wudda done" and "what
cudda happened" memories.

Again: Kleck has made it clear that in his last survey everything possible
was done to make sure the accounts involved defense against some actual,
threatening person or persons. Not "a threatening looking person standing
across the street" or anything like that.

So the author of the paper, and the man responsible for designing the
survey, made it clear that the survey was properly designed.

That's a great deal of assurance, isn't it?

I would suppose that in the Cook and Ludwig 2001 survey on incidents
of DGU, where they came up with a figure of 1.5 million, that both
Cook and Ludwig would assure you that their survey was designed
properly. And, officials responsible for the National Crime
Victimization survey, which came up with a figure of about 100,000,
would make it clear that their survey was designed properly.

Always ask the authors to make it clear that they did it right. You
can depend on them being open about any possible flaws in their work.

Besides, it wouldn't be the survey questions that would lead to false
positives; it would be the veracity of the responders. If the
responder exaggerates an incident and says "Yes, I was under attack
but I chased the guy off by showing that I was armed", but really did
nothing but scare off a harmless panhandler, the wording of the
question doesn't matter. The guy has probably told the story so many
times (Bill comes to mind) that he actually believes his tarted-up
version.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

tony cooper wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:13:47 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

And you think they don't? Read the "National Rifleman" for a few
months. They don't report many things because of what happened to
people like Bernie Goetz, and he was an exception because he
actually had to shoot a few people. In most instances just the mere
possession of the weapon is enough to thwart a crime. In my case,
just my attitude when carrying was enough in many instances to
prevent any potential trouble. Its the, "I know something that you
don't know" attitude I am speaking of.

Somehow I'm picturing a gun-owners version of letters to Penthouse.

Picture whatever you want. But the fact is, I am still alive.

This is one of the reasons I don't believe the figures in the Kleck
report. Bill has alluded to being able to fend off two muggers
because he carries. In some posts, the gun "saved his ass". Now he's
coming close to "the gun saved my life" while saying - at the same
time - his attitude discouraged his attackers. I think he mentioned
something about the gun saving him from getting beaten up in one post.
The story changes.

If enough people like Bill were the recipient of Kleck's 5,000 call
phone survey, there's little chance *real* facts were recorded. A
threatening looking person standing across the street without ever
approaching the respondent can go down as a DGU success story. The
real facts become confused with the "what I wudda done" and "what
cudda happened" memories.

1. - I was never a part of the, "Kleck report", and I don't even know what
it is.

2. I carried a concealed revolver for over 40 years, and during that time,
it played a part in several episodes of my life, as well as giving me the
confidence to go places where I otherwise wouldn't have gone. If you haven't
lived my life, then you have no right to comment on why I carried it, or
whether it was a good or bad thing to do. You can only create dumb
speculations to suit your distorted Ideas.

I haven't lived your life, and I refuse to comment on it. If you are happy
being unarmed, then more power to you. But please don't try to tell me how
to live mine. You are just not qualified to do that.

tony cooper wrote:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 16:09:15 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
Besides, it wouldn't be the survey questions that would lead to false
positives; it would be the veracity of the responders. If the
responder exaggerates an incident and says "Yes, I was under attack
but I chased the guy off by showing that I was armed", but really did
nothing but scare off a harmless panhandler, the wording of the
question doesn't matter. The guy has probably told the story so many
times (Bill comes to mind) that he actually believes his tarted-up
version.

Now you are claiming that you have access to my doctor's records and that I
have Alzheimers disease. Its amazing how much you know about me, Tony!