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#31
October 1st 03, 06:02 AM
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"Q. Lu" wrote: Simply comparing wh numbers doesn't give you the full picture. With the same set of Nimh AA, Minolta 5/7 series only give you 1/3 number of shots as you can get on a C5050. It is a combination of camera efficiency/battery wh# that determines battery life. As you pointed out, there are 2300mAH AA now. There are also higher mah LiIon's now. You can get 1400mah replacement for NP-FM50 or BP-511 for $15-$25 on eBay. In case of camcorders, you can even get 3600mah replacements. In any case, Nimh AAs is a good and cheap way to go. LiIon has its own advantage on performance, otherwise they wouldn't be used on almost all high end models. LOL! They are used so camera makers can make money selling spares. High priced nimh batteries don't sell that well, but high priced proprietary batteries sell well. I have nothing against rechargeable Lilon batteries except their high cost, and lack of standard sizes that are used by several camera makers. When the technology matures, and they are priced competitively with nimh batteries and come in standard sizes, I would probably approve of their use. Their more compact size and lighter weight per amount of power really don't compensate for the much higher price, and lack of standard sizes. "Alfred Molon" wrote in message news.com... In article , says... I never said that. LiIons are more expensive. G3 is more than twice more expensive than a gateway 4 mp. How do you compare their performance per dollar? A 2300 mAH set of 4 NiMh has over 11 WH of energy (vs. 8 Wh for the Canon G3 LiIon battery) and is cheaper. -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus4040_5050/ Olympus 4040 resource - http://www.molon.de/4040.html Olympus 5050 resource - http://www.molon.de/5050.html 
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#32
October 1st 03, 11:58 PM
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"JK" wrote in message ... "Q. Lu" wrote: Simply comparing wh numbers doesn't give you the full picture. With the same set of Nimh AA, Minolta 5/7 series only give you 1/3 number of shots as you can get on a C5050. It is a combination of camera efficiency/battery wh# that determines battery life. As you pointed out, there are 2300mAH AA now. There are also higher mah LiIon's now. You can get 1400mah replacement for NP-FM50 or BP-511 for $15-$25 on eBay. In case of camcorders, you can even get 3600mah replacements. In any case, Nimh AAs is a good and cheap way to go. LiIon has its own advantage on performance, otherwise they wouldn't be used on almost all high end models. LOL! They are used so camera makers can make money selling spares. That only works if there were no third party batteries. As I have said, cheap and reliable LiIon batteries are abundent. Using LiIons is more about performance, not profit, at least at this stage. High priced nimh batteries don't sell that well, but high priced proprietary batteries sell well. I don't see why that is the case. First, a lot of people don't even buy spare proprietary batteries. Second, those who buy, can buy from eBay for as low as $10 a piece. I have nothing against rechargeable Lilon batteries except their high cost, and lack of standard sizes that are used by several camera makers. When the technology matures, and they are priced competitively with nimh batteries and come in standard sizes, I would probably approve of their use. Their more compact size and lighter weight per amount of power really don't compensate for the much higher price, and lack of standard sizes. Unfortunately, standard sizes may never be available. Different camera models have different size and shape. Besides, the price isn't that ridiculous any more. BP-511 is like $10 a piece on eBay, and it is used all almost all Canon digicam and camcorders. If you buy 4 quality Nimh AA, it is like $8. The difference is only $2.
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#33
October 2nd 03, 12:24 AM
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"JK" wrote in message ... "Q. Lu" wrote: "JK" wrote in message ... "Q. Lu" wrote: I have used both Nimh and LiIons, I have to say LiIons are better performer. Not per dollar. I never said that. LiIons are more expensive. G3 is more than twice more expensive than a gateway 4 mp. How do you compare their performance per dollar? LiIons do not lose power much when not used while Nimh lose 1.5%-3% daily. At 70F, nimh batteries only lose around 1% of the remaining power per day. It is rare that I even go a full week without using my digicam. My nexell drain out in 2-3 weeks without usage. It is the spare batteries I was talking about. Say you prepare three sets of AA but only used one set in a day. After a week, you need to use the camera again, what do you do with the 2nd and third sets? What if the 3rd set is not used even after second time? At 70F, the batteries retain 3/4 of their charge if not used for a month, and 55% if not used for two months. At 100F, the batteries would lose 25% of the charge in just 10 days. My usual procedure is to rotate through six sets of batteries. It is rare that one of these six sets goes unused for more than a month. The batteries are usually kept at a cool temperature except when I am out for the day shooting during the summer. During the summer it is rare that I don't rotate through the six sets within ten days. I don't have a need to charge batteries that have not been used since the last charge. For those who don't use their cameras often, and who are in a hot climate and don't have air conditioning, this may be more of an issue. I also have more than three chargers, and typically charge up to three sets of batteries at a time. Did you measure new batteries or old? Maybe because my Nexell nimhs are not new, they drain much faster than that. Do you recharge it full or not? in case of LiIons, the spares sit in your bag a month or two and you don't have to think about it. A nice feature on Sony F-series is you can see how many minutes you have left on the battery. So what. Do you want your car tell you how much gas it has left in the tank? The car has only one gas tank. One can have a few sets of batteries. I live in a big city and gas station is available every 5 blocks. I still want the car tell me how much gas it has left. By your argement, you don't need the camera tell you how many more pictures the memory card can hold because you always carry multiple cards. Similarly, a lot of infomation is unneccesary by your argument. I have nothing against AA Nimh batteries. I just think the argument "proprietary is bad" is a bit arbitury. Do some research then you will see the prices are not so ridiculous any more. I picked up several 128mb memory sticks for $20 a piece, while you still think they must cost at least $50 a piece.
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#34
October 2nd 03, 04:29 AM
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"Q. Lu" wrote: "JK" wrote in message ... "Q. Lu" wrote: Simply comparing wh numbers doesn't give you the full picture. With the same set of Nimh AA, Minolta 5/7 series only give you 1/3 number of shots as you can get on a C5050. It is a combination of camera efficiency/battery wh# that determines battery life. As you pointed out, there are 2300mAH AA now. There are also higher mah LiIon's now. You can get 1400mah replacement for NP-FM50 or BP-511 for $15-$25 on eBay. In case of camcorders, you can even get 3600mah replacements. In any case, Nimh AAs is a good and cheap way to go. LiIon has its own advantage on performance, otherwise they wouldn't be used on almost all high end models. LOL! They are used so camera makers can make money selling spares. That only works if there were no third party batteries. As I have said, cheap and reliable LiIon batteries are abundent. Using LiIons is more about performance, not profit, at least at this stage. High priced nimh batteries don't sell that well, but high priced proprietary batteries sell well. I don't see why that is the case. First, a lot of people don't even buy spare proprietary batteries. Second, those who buy, can buy from eBay for as low as $10 a piece. Reliable ones? I have nothing against rechargeable Lilon batteries except their high cost, and lack of standard sizes that are used by several camera makers. When the technology matures, and they are priced competitively with nimh batteries and come in standard sizes, I would probably approve of their use. Their more compact size and lighter weight per amount of power really don't compensate for the much higher price, and lack of standard sizes. Unfortunately, standard sizes may never be available. Different camera models have different size and shape. Cameras that use AA batteries are also different sizes and shapes, but the manufacturers design their cameras around the batteries. The same could be done for standard sized Lilon batteries. Besides, the price isn't that ridiculous any more. BP-511 is like $10 a piece on eBay $10? Are they reliable? , and it is used all almost all Canon digicam and camcorders. If you buy 4 quality Nimh AA, it is like $8. About that half that price if one shops carefully. The difference is only $2.
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#35
October 2nd 03, 06:55 PM
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"JK" wrote in message ... I don't see why that is the case. First, a lot of people don't even buy spare proprietary batteries. Second, those who buy, can buy from eBay for as low as $10 a piece. Reliable ones? Work well for me. There is shipping charge, but if you buy several, then it is trivial. Others on Canon and Sony forums seem to be happy with these batteries too.
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#37
October 2nd 03, 11:22 PM
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"Alfred Molon" wrote in message news.com... In article , says... I live in a big city and gas station is available every 5 blocks. I still want the car tell me how much gas it has left. By your argement, you don't need the camera tell you how many more pictures the memory card can hold because you always carry multiple cards. In fact in my camera bag there is a 512MB CF card, four 128MB Smartmedia cards and one 128MB xD card. I also have a 40GB X's Drive. Add to that a total of three sets of NiMH batteries, which in total carry sufficient energy for 1000 shots. I can afford to ignore how many pictures are left on one memory card and how much energy is left in a battery set. I too have the x-drive, isn't it a nice little device? There are time that I expect non-stop actions and don't want to interrupt by a drained battery or full memory card. In that case, I just check what is left in the battery and memory card, and if they don't have enough left, I put in a fresh one. You can always guess what is left in the Nimh and guess whether that is enough for 20 minutes non-stop work, just not that accurate. I have nothing against AA Nimh batteries. I just think the argument "proprietary is bad" is a bit arbitury. Do some research then you will see the prices are not so ridiculous any more. They are still more expensive, but the major problem is that there is no standard and if you find yourself in a remote place you might have difficulties finding batteries in case you run out of energy. The way you stock up spares, you will never be in trouble. In addition to that, if the proprietary LiIon is no longer manufactured one day, you are in serious trouble. LiIons on average last 3 years of intensive usage. And frankly, after three years, the camera is way outdated already. Who cares whether the batteries are discontinued. Similarly, every PC uses a certain type of RAM that may be discontinued next year, but does that stop you from buying a PC? Almost certain, you will dump your digicams (or PC) before the battery (or RAM) is discontinued.
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#38
October 3rd 03, 04:49 AM
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:22:35 -0500, "Q. Lu"
wrote: I too have the x-drive, isn't it a nice little device? Wait, didn't you say you were "out of here" lol! Knew it.
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#39
October 3rd 03, 06:38 AM
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I am not going to trade any more here. That is what I mean. No deal is going
down in this NG nowadays, thanks to mad dogs like you. Shut your hole until you get a job. "Danny B." wrote in message ... On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:22:35 -0500, "Q. Lu" wrote: I too have the x-drive, isn't it a nice little device? Wait, didn't you say you were "out of here" lol! Knew it.
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#40
October 3rd 03, 07:35 AM
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:38:19 -0500, "Q. Lu"
wrote: I am not going to trade any more here. That is what I mean. No deal is going down in this NG nowadays, thanks to mad dogs like you. Sorry Charlie, but this group was ruined by greedy, dishonest fleabay losers like yourself. Before the plethora of over priced, over hyped auctions, free trade reigned. You have no one but to blame but yourself. Shut your hole until you get a job. lol, right! Guess that means I won't be able to make my Hummer payment this month. What a freaking maroon! And no, I don't mean moron, that would be too polite 
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