how much does sodium sulfite accelerate developing times?

I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at 1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then be,
approximately?

wrote:
I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this?

I have never heard of doing this to accelerate development. If you dissolve
paramethylaminosulfate in water, it will pretty much not develop film unless
you add quite a bit of sodium sulphite. And while you could develop film in
this, current day films come out a bit mushy because all that sulphite
dissolves the edges of the silver grains. This gives "finer grain" but at
the expense of sharpness. The main reason for using sulphite ion in
developper mixtures is to retard oxidation of the developper.

I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at 1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then be,
approximately?

No way to know. You would have to test it in advance. While I do not like
Rodinal, that is a matter of personal taste, so YMMV.

If I wanted to speed up Rodinal 1:50, I would try 1:25 or something. If you
do not mind grain (and you probably don't or you would not be using Rodinal
in the first place), you could use sodium hydroxide solution. But what's
your hurry?

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 21:35:00 up 15 days, 19:57, 3 users, load average: 4.32, 4.31, 4.14

Thanks for your response. I should have been a bit clearer, perhaps. I
seem to have given the impression that I'm trying to use this solution
to speed up developing times, when I should have been more specific in
saying that I'm actually doing it for its effects on the film grain.
The speeding up of the developing is not something I'm going for at
all, it's just a byproduct I want to be in control of. Hell, I'm not
even really sure if it does in fact speed it up to any significant
degree, thats kind of what this post is about.

But what is sodium hydroxide? What affects does it have? I'm not
familiar with it

In article .com,
writes:

But what is sodium hydroxide? What affects does it have? I'm not
familiar with it

You probably are familiar with sodium hydroxide. It's also known as "lye"
and is sold as a drain cleaner, as well as being used in various
industrial applications. In photography, it's an activator for many
developing agents and is an ingredient in some developer solutions.
Rodinal contains a chemically similar substance, potassium hydroxide. I'm
guessing that adding a bit of sodium hydroxide to Rodinal would accelerate
its action, hence Jean-David Beyer's mentioning it, but I don't know that
for a fact.

You might be interested in reading a bit of the basic principles of
developer design. Anchell's _The Darkroom Cookbook_ has this information.
A good Web page with basic information is:

http://www.jackspcs.com/chemnote.htm

Another approach to taming the grain with Rodinal is to add ascorbic acid
(aka vitamin C). This approach is described he

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html

Scroll down to the sidebar entitled "Begone, Fog!" The same page has
information on mixing Rodinal with XTOL and a mix-it-yourself formula
that's something of a cross between Rodinal and XTOL. I've not tried any
of these things, though, so I can't comment on their effectiveness; I just
happened to know the page exists, and so thought I'd share the reference.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

Do not add sulphite to Rodinal. It's stupid. The developer is
formulated to work with plain water.


wrote:
I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at 1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then be,
approximately?

Bill Pierce (a man for which I have a great deal of respect) used to use a
sulfite solution to moderate the graininess of Rodinal with high speed films
like Tri-X, I believe Pat Gainer (another chap for which I have much
respect) has also done some research on this. Neither one of them uses the
word stupid when replying to honest questions.

"UC" wrote in message
oups.com...
Do not add sulphite to Rodinal. It's stupid. The developer is
formulated to work with plain water.


wrote:
I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at 1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then be,
approximately?

Adding sulphite to Rodinal is like putting pure oxygen in your tires.
Pointless and even counter-productive. Sulphite's in D-76 action is
two-fold:

1) To preserve the metol against oxidation
2) To reduce the graininess by dissolving a bit of the grain edges.

To the best of my knowledge, the sulphite's solvent effect occuirs only
at certain concentrations and at a certain ph, and there is no reason
to believe that Rodinal's active ingredient and ph are suitable for
sulphite to act in the same way in a Rodinal solution as it does in
D-76.

The alkali is different
The developing agent is different
The ph is different
The concentration is different

If you want a fine-grain developer, don't use Rodinal at all. There is
no point whaetsoever to adding sulphite to Rodinal.


Mike King wrote:
Bill Pierce (a man for which I have a great deal of respect) used to use a
sulfite solution to moderate the graininess of Rodinal with high speed films
like Tri-X, I believe Pat Gainer (another chap for which I have much
respect) has also done some research on this. Neither one of them uses the
word stupid when replying to honest questions.

"UC" wrote in message
oups.com...
Do not add sulphite to Rodinal. It's stupid. The developer is
formulated to work with plain water.


wrote:
I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this1?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at 1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then be,
approximately?

UC wrote:

Adding sulphite to Rodinal is like putting pure oxygen in your tires.
Pointless and even counter-productive. Sulphite's in D-76 action is
two-fold:

1) To preserve the metol against oxidation
2) To reduce the graininess by dissolving a bit of the grain edges.

To the best of my knowledge, the sulphite's solvent effect occuirs only
at certain concentrations and at a certain ph, and there is no reason
to believe that Rodinal's active ingredient and ph are suitable for
sulphite to act in the same way in a Rodinal solution as it does in
D-76.

The alkali is different
The developing agent is different
The ph is different
The concentration is different

If you want a fine-grain developer, don't use Rodinal at all. There is
no point whaetsoever to adding sulphite to Rodinal.


Mike King wrote:


Bill Pierce (a man for which I have a great deal of respect) used to use a
sulfite solution to moderate the graininess of Rodinal with high speed films
like Tri-X, I believe Pat Gainer (another chap for which I have much
respect) has also done some research on this. Neither one of them uses the
word stupid when replying to honest questions.

"UC" wrote in message
groups.com...


Do not add sulphite to Rodinal. It's stupid. The developer is
formulated to work with plain water.


wrote:


I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this1?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at 1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then be,
approximately?





My experiments some years ago comparing Rodinal with sulfite and
Rodinal with ascorbate against plain Rodinal told me that with
ascorbate, the grain is finer than plain Rodinal and the resolution is
better than either of the others. Development time in Rodinal 1+50+ 4
grams/l of sodium ascorbate is about the same as for Rodinal 1+25. These
comparisons were published in Photo Techniques in the article "Salt to
Taste" which also showed some results of adding sodium chloride to D-23.

nailer wrote:
a bit of knowledge is worse than none at all.

the originator asked if sulfite would increase speed. he/she hasn't
asked about effect on grain.

Rodinal already has sulfite, adding more would have only a minor
effect.

As far as I know, NITROGEN is used by some to fill tyres, not oxygen.
Because they try to avoid oxygen. Someone heard bells ringing, but
did not know in which church.

Precisely why you don't fill tires with oxygen.


otherwise yet again wasted bandwidth from someone with loud mouth and
insufficient knowledge.




On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:20:05 -0400, PATRICK GAINER
wrote:

UC wrote:

Adding sulphite to Rodinal is like putting pure oxygen in your
tires.
Pointless and even counter-productive. Sulphite's in D-76 action is
two-fold:

1) To preserve the metol against oxidation
2) To reduce the graininess by dissolving a bit of the grain edges.

To the best of my knowledge, the sulphite's solvent effect occuirs
only
at certain concentrations and at a certain ph, and there is no
reason
to believe that Rodinal's active ingredient and ph are suitable for
sulphite to act in the same way in a Rodinal solution as it does in
D-76.

The alkali is different
The developing agent is different
The ph is different
The concentration is different

If you want a fine-grain developer, don't use Rodinal at all. There
is
no point whaetsoever to adding sulphite to Rodinal.


Mike King wrote:


Bill Pierce (a man for which I have a great deal of respect) used
to use a
sulfite solution to moderate the graininess of Rodinal with high
speed films
like Tri-X, I believe Pat Gainer (another chap for which I have
much
respect) has also done some research on this. Neither one of them
uses the
word stupid when replying to honest questions.

"UC" wrote in message
legroups.com...


Do not add sulphite to Rodinal. It's stupid. The developer is
formulated to work with plain water.


wrote:


I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if
I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So
I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this1?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at
1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing
it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then
be,
approximately?





My experiments some years ago comparing Rodinal with sulfite and
Rodinal with ascorbate against plain Rodinal told me that with
ascorbate, the grain is finer than plain Rodinal and the resolution
is
better than either of the others. Development time in Rodinal 1+50+
4
grams/l of sodium ascorbate is about the same as for Rodinal 1+25.
These
comparisons were published in Photo Techniques in the article "Salt
to
Taste" which also showed some results of adding sodium chloride to
D-23.

nailer wrote:
a bit of knowledge is worse than none at all.

the originator asked if sulfite would increase speed. he/she hasn't
asked about effect on grain.

They why else would he consider adding the sulphite? That's the only
reason to consider it.


Rodinal already has sulfite, adding more would have only a minor
effect.

As far as I know, NITROGEN is used by some to fill tyres, not oxygen.
Because they try to avoid oxygen. Someone heard bells ringing, but
did not know in which church.


"Adding sulphite to Rodinal is like putting pure oxygen in your tires.
Pointless and even counter-productive."

Are you so ****ing stupid you can't read?


otherwise yet again wasted bandwidth from someone with loud mouth and
insufficient knowledge.




On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:20:05 -0400, PATRICK GAINER
wrote:

UC wrote:

Adding sulphite to Rodinal is like putting pure oxygen in your
tires.
Pointless and even counter-productive. Sulphite's in D-76 action is
two-fold:

1) To preserve the metol against oxidation
2) To reduce the graininess by dissolving a bit of the grain edges.

To the best of my knowledge, the sulphite's solvent effect occuirs
only
at certain concentrations and at a certain ph, and there is no
reason
to believe that Rodinal's active ingredient and ph are suitable for
sulphite to act in the same way in a Rodinal solution as it does in
D-76.

The alkali is different
The developing agent is different
The ph is different
The concentration is different

If you want a fine-grain developer, don't use Rodinal at all. There
is
no point whaetsoever to adding sulphite to Rodinal.


Mike King wrote:


Bill Pierce (a man for which I have a great deal of respect) used
to use a
sulfite solution to moderate the graininess of Rodinal with high
speed films
like Tri-X, I believe Pat Gainer (another chap for which I have
much
respect) has also done some research on this. Neither one of them
uses the
word stupid when replying to honest questions.

"UC" wrote in message
legroups.com...


Do not add sulphite to Rodinal. It's stupid. The developer is
formulated to work with plain water.


wrote:


I'm going to use sodium sulfite for the first time soon and, if
I
understand correctly, sodium sulfite accelerates developing. So
I'm
curious to know how much I should shorten my developing time in
relation to this1?
I have a 5% solution of it mixed up and I plan to use Rodinal at
1:50
for a roll of APX 100. The packaged literature recommends doing
it at
20 degrees for 17 minutes, so with the SS what would it then
be,
approximately?





My experiments some years ago comparing Rodinal with sulfite and
Rodinal with ascorbate against plain Rodinal told me that with
ascorbate, the grain is finer than plain Rodinal and the resolution
is
better than either of the others. Development time in Rodinal 1+50+
4
grams/l of sodium ascorbate is about the same as for Rodinal 1+25.
These
comparisons were published in Photo Techniques in the article "Salt
to
Taste" which also showed some results of adding sodium chloride to
D-23.