When Did Detroit Start Building Cars Like Japanese dSLRs????

"Peter Irwin" wrote in message
...
In rec.photo.digital J?rgen Exner wrote:

Not to mention that there is also a liquid ounce which apparently has
nothing do to with the weight ounce. Question: when you melt gold, do
you have to use the liquid ounce now instead of the troy ounce?

An Imperial fluid ounce of water weighs an ounce avoirdupois.
The US fluid ounce is slightly larger.

Gold is bought and sold by troy weight. How you choose to measure it
during an experiment is your own business.

And now please tell me again that all this is less confusing and easier
than milligram, gram, kilogram, and tons.

There are a number of handy features. A cubic foot of seawater
weighs 64 pounds. David Littleboy's example of the density of
seawater in slugs per cubic yard is thus easier than he seems
to suggest. Since acceleration due to gravity is around 32ft/s^2,
there are two slugs per cubic foot of seawater and thus nearly
54 slugs per cubic yard.

The main obvious advantage is that it trains you to do mixed-base
mental arithmetic.

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to the
internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic they need
with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing this, because
when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors that defy any and all
reason. When I make a mistake in my mental calculations, I know it
immediately, because I have some idea of the answer even before I begin. But
when you are accustomed to trusting your answers to a machine, you have
little choice but to crash and burn when the machine makes a mistake, or you
make one when you input the data.

On 11/19/2009 9:31 PM Bill Graham spake thus:

"Peter Irwin" wrote in message
...

In rec.photo.digital J?rgen Exner wrote:

Not to mention that there is also a liquid ounce which apparently has
nothing do to with the weight ounce. Question: when you melt gold, do
you have to use the liquid ounce now instead of the troy ounce?

An Imperial fluid ounce of water weighs an ounce avoirdupois.
The US fluid ounce is slightly larger.

Gold is bought and sold by troy weight. How you choose to measure it
during an experiment is your own business.

And now please tell me again that all this is less confusing and easier
than milligram, gram, kilogram, and tons.

The main obvious advantage is that it trains you to do mixed-base
mental arithmetic.

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to the
internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic they need
with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing this, because
when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors that defy any and all
reason. When I make a mistake in my mental calculations, I know it
immediately, because I have some idea of the answer even before I begin. But
when you are accustomed to trusting your answers to a machine, you have
little choice but to crash and burn when the machine makes a mistake, or you
make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools,
if not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what
they're doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?


--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 11/19/2009 9:31 PM Bill Graham spake thus:

"Peter Irwin" wrote in message
...

In rec.photo.digital J?rgen Exner wrote:

Not to mention that there is also a liquid ounce which apparently has
nothing do to with the weight ounce. Question: when you melt gold, do
you have to use the liquid ounce now instead of the troy ounce?

An Imperial fluid ounce of water weighs an ounce avoirdupois.
The US fluid ounce is slightly larger.

Gold is bought and sold by troy weight. How you choose to measure it
during an experiment is your own business.

And now please tell me again that all this is less confusing and easier
than milligram, gram, kilogram, and tons.

The main obvious advantage is that it trains you to do mixed-base
mental arithmetic.

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to
the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic they
need with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing this,
because when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors that defy
any and all reason. When I make a mistake in my mental calculations, I
know it immediately, because I have some idea of the answer even before I
begin. But when you are accustomed to trusting your answers to a machine,
you have little choice but to crash and burn when the machine makes a
mistake, or you make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools, if
not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what they're
doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?

Yes. With slide rules, you had to approximate your answer in advance,
because the rule couldn't keep track of the decimal point.....If you
couldn't guess your answer to the closest factor of ten, the rule was
useless to you. So in a sense, it forced you to think about what you were
doing.

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:58:53 -0800, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 11/19/2009 9:31 PM Bill Graham spake thus:

"Peter Irwin" wrote in message
...

In rec.photo.digital J?rgen Exner wrote:

Not to mention that there is also a liquid ounce which apparently has
nothing do to with the weight ounce. Question: when you melt gold, do
you have to use the liquid ounce now instead of the troy ounce?

An Imperial fluid ounce of water weighs an ounce avoirdupois.
The US fluid ounce is slightly larger.

Gold is bought and sold by troy weight. How you choose to measure it
during an experiment is your own business.

And now please tell me again that all this is less confusing and easier
than milligram, gram, kilogram, and tons.

The main obvious advantage is that it trains you to do mixed-base
mental arithmetic.

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to
the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic they
need with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing this,
because when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors that defy
any and all reason. When I make a mistake in my mental calculations, I
know it immediately, because I have some idea of the answer even before I
begin. But when you are accustomed to trusting your answers to a machine,
you have little choice but to crash and burn when the machine makes a
mistake, or you make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools, if
not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what they're
doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?

Yes. With slide rules, you had to approximate your answer in advance,
because the rule couldn't keep track of the decimal point.....

I'm afraid that's not correct. There are rules for keeping track of
the decimal point according to whether you are moving the slide to the
right or the left. I've got a 10" Faber Castell down on my boat
complete with instruction manual. I should go down and read it up. But
then you will find it in http://www.hpmuseum.org/srinst.htm

If you
couldn't guess your answer to the closest factor of ten, the rule was
useless to you. So in a sense, it forced you to think about what you were
doing.



Eric Stevens

David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 20/11/2009 5:47 PM:

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go
to the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any
arithmetic they need with the press of a few keys. You can tell that
they are doing this, because when they make a mistake, they are off by
huge factors that defy any and all reason. When I make a mistake in my
mental calculations, I know it immediately, because I have some idea
of the answer even before I begin. But when you are accustomed to
trusting your answers to a machine, you have little choice but to
crash and burn when the machine makes a mistake, or you make one when
you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools,
if not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

Hmmm: the SR-71A and the Apollo project were initially designed and researched
using slide rules. I still have to see a kid with a cell phone produce anything
other than breeze or facebook pages...


I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what
they're doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?

None. And what's worse: none would even understand their principle of
operation, which was well known since the middle ages.

"Noons" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 20/11/2009 5:47 PM:

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to
the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic
they need with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing
this, because when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors
that defy any and all reason. When I make a mistake in my mental
calculations, I know it immediately, because I have some idea of the
answer even before I begin. But when you are accustomed to trusting your
answers to a machine, you have little choice but to crash and burn when
the machine makes a mistake, or you make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools, if
not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

Hmmm: the SR-71A and the Apollo project were initially designed and
researched using slide rules. I still have to see a kid with a cell phone
produce anything other than breeze or facebook pages...


I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what
they're doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?

None. And what's worse: none would even understand their principle of
operation, which was well known since the middle ages.

Yes. When slide rules disappeared, knowledge of their principal of operation
disappeared with them.

In article , Bill Graham
wrote:

"Noons" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 20/11/2009 5:47 PM:

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to
the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic
they need with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing
this, because when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors
that defy any and all reason. When I make a mistake in my mental
calculations, I know it immediately, because I have some idea of the
answer even before I begin. But when you are accustomed to trusting your
answers to a machine, you have little choice but to crash and burn when
the machine makes a mistake, or you make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools, if
not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

Hmmm: the SR-71A and the Apollo project were initially designed and
researched using slide rules. I still have to see a kid with a cell phone
produce anything other than breeze or facebook pages...


I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what
they're doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?

None. And what's worse: none would even understand their principle of
operation, which was well known since the middle ages.
Middle Ages are generally supposed to be from 5th to 16th C.
Slide rule is 17th century invention after John Napier's work on
logarithms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
Modern slide rules from 1859 (from the same wikipedia article)

Yes. When slide rules disappeared, knowledge of their principal of operation
disappeared with them.

That's a bit curmudgeonly. Kids can pick up on using a slide rule in a
few minutes. They are smarter than they let on. My 7 year old
granddaughter was using mine to multiply and divide 3 minutes after
picking it up. It took a bit longer to explain enough about logs for
her to get how it works. That's mostly because I'm a crap teacher.

--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248

Elliott Roper wrote:
In article , Bill
Graham wrote:

"Noons" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 20/11/2009 5:47 PM:

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that
go to the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any
arithmetic they need with the press of a few keys. You can tell
that they are doing this, because when they make a mistake, they
are off by huge factors that defy any and all reason. When I make
a mistake in my mental calculations, I know it immediately,
because I have some idea of the answer even before I begin. But
when you are accustomed to trusting your answers to a machine,
you have little choice but to crash and burn when the machine
makes a mistake, or you make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical
tools, if not for actual engineering use. Although they're still
useful in that function as well.)

Hmmm: the SR-71A and the Apollo project were initially designed and
researched using slide rules. I still have to see a kid with a
cell phone produce anything other than breeze or facebook pages...


I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what
they're doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and
geeks)?

None. And what's worse: none would even understand their principle
of operation, which was well known since the middle ages.
Middle Ages are generally supposed to be from 5th to 16th C.
Slide rule is 17th century invention after John Napier's work on
logarithms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
Modern slide rules from 1859 (from the same wikipedia article)

Yes. When slide rules disappeared, knowledge of their principal of
operation disappeared with them.

That's a bit curmudgeonly. Kids can pick up on using a slide rule in a
few minutes. They are smarter than they let on. My 7 year old
granddaughter was using mine to multiply and divide 3 minutes after
picking it up. It took a bit longer to explain enough about logs for
her to get how it works. That's mostly because I'm a crap teacher.

While the SR-71 and the Apollo program were both impressive, in terms of
size, complexity, and cost the cellular network and the Internet both dwarf
those projects. I mean you're talking a couple of billion dollars of
infrastructure just to make one kind of chip.

The kids on the cutting edge today are working on fusion, artificial
intelligence, synthesized organisms, and other suchlike _hard_ problems.

On 2009-11-20 16:22:28 -0800, Elliott Roper said:

In article , Bill Graham
wrote:

"Noons" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 20/11/2009 5:47 PM:

Not today it doesn't. All the young people carry cell phones that go to
the internet and get any conversion they want, and do any arithmetic
they need with the press of a few keys. You can tell that they are doing
this, because when they make a mistake, they are off by huge factors
that defy any and all reason. When I make a mistake in my mental
calculations, I know it immediately, because I have some idea of the
answer even before I begin. But when you are accustomed to trusting your
answers to a machine, you have little choice but to crash and burn when
the machine makes a mistake, or you make one when you input the data.

Time to go back to slide rules, I say. (At least as pedagogical tools, if
not for actual engineering use. Although they're still useful in that
function as well.)

Hmmm: the SR-71A and the Apollo project were initially designed and
researched using slide rules. I still have to see a kid with a cell phone
produce anything other than breeze or facebook pages...


I wonder: how many kids today would have the faintest idea of what
they're doing with one (I mean apart from the obvious nerds and geeks)?

None. And what's worse: none would even understand their principle of
operation, which was well known since the middle ages.
Middle Ages are generally supposed to be from 5th to 16th C.
Slide rule is 17th century invention after John Napier's work on
logarithms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
Modern slide rules from 1859 (from the same wikipedia article)

Yes. When slide rules disappeared, knowledge of their principal of operation
disappeared with them.

That's a bit curmudgeonly. Kids can pick up on using a slide rule in a
few minutes. They are smarter than they let on. My 7 year old
granddaughter was using mine to multiply and divide 3 minutes after
picking it up. It took a bit longer to explain enough about logs for
her to get how it works. That's mostly because I'm a crap teacher.

Along with 2 Faber Castell slide rules, I still have my old book of
log/antilog and trig tables. Use the word "mantissa" today, and see
what sort of baffled looks you will get from kids.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

"Elliott Roper" wrote in message
...
Yes. When slide rules disappeared, knowledge of their principal of
operation
disappeared with them.

It took a bit longer to explain enough about logs for
her to get how it works.

When she's 15, ask her again how they work......Unless she's a math major,
she won't even know what logs are......