Getting back into medium format

Hi everyone. I'm an amateur who has not done a lot of photography in
the past few years, but recently got a digital Nikon on impulse and
played again, and ...was frustrated by cheapish digital SLR quality,
then looked over some of my old F4/Bronica MF stuff and sighed a bit.
You don't get the bite of either of those, particularly the later,
from a D50 :-(. Sadly I no longer have the Bronica. Anyway one
thing led to another, and I've just got a Coolscan 9000 so I can play
with the old stuff. So of course I'd now like to shoot some MF again,
in addition to revisiting 35mm film of course. I think I'll try out
6x7 this time. I have a couple of questions, first is probably a FAQ,
I've seen it discussed quite a bit, but I'd like a current view if
people don't mind making a brief comment.

If I buy MF 120 film gear is there realistic expectation of having
film available for that much longer? Digital seems to be sweeping in
at a pace, yet I'd like to spend some more time with film and maybe
get few Cibachromes printed if that's going to be possible.

A good choice for what I want to do seems to be the Mamiya RZ67 II,
don't mind the size, and I can get a reasonable basic setup used for
around UKP 1K. I'm thinking that if film disappears in the future,
and MF digital backs get cheaper, then maybe this camera would let me
stay with what I've bought rather than use it as a paperweight. If
that logic seems OK I'd welcome pointers to the best likely UK sources
of used Mamiya kit, found a few already but recommendations welcome.

Steve

Originally Posted by Steve

Hi everyone. I'm an amateur who has not done a lot of photography in
the past few years, but recently got a digital Nikon on impulse and
played again, and ...was frustrated by cheapish digital SLR quality,
then looked over some of my old F4/Bronica MF stuff and sighed a bit.
You don't get the bite of either of those, particularly the later,
from a D50 :-(. Sadly I no longer have the Bronica. Anyway one
thing led to another, and I've just got a Coolscan 9000 so I can play
with the old stuff. So of course I'd now like to shoot some MF again,
in addition to revisiting 35mm film of course. I think I'll try out
6x7 this time. I have a couple of questions, first is probably a FAQ,
I've seen it discussed quite a bit, but I'd like a current view if
people don't mind making a brief comment.

If I buy MF 120 film gear is there realistic expectation of having
film available for that much longer? Digital seems to be sweeping in
at a pace, yet I'd like to spend some more time with film and maybe
get few Cibachromes printed if that's going to be possible.

A good choice for what I want to do seems to be the Mamiya RZ67 II,
don't mind the size, and I can get a reasonable basic setup used for
around UKP 1K. I'm thinking that if film disappears in the future,
and MF digital backs get cheaper, then maybe this camera would let me
stay with what I've bought rather than use it as a paperweight. If
that logic seems OK I'd welcome pointers to the best likely UK sources
of used Mamiya kit, found a few already but recommendations welcome.

Steve

First, I'm only guessing, and since I have been shooting MF for 2 yrs now, the following is slanted as someone hoping to keep shooting MF.
I'd guess that we get top quality film for at least two more years, Fuji and Kodak still do R&D for film, and the factories will have some inertia just from a capital investment perspective.
BUT 220 film is getting harder to come by, Kodak & Fuji have stopped some lines. Developing is getting more expensive as small shops close up. The great thing is that the gear has gotten very inexpensive, and the quality is about equal to $7k digicams. Tough choice, because the gear will be next to worthless when you're done....
-Mark

Steve wrote:

If I buy MF 120 film gear is there realistic expectation of having
film available for that much longer?

Define "much longer" first?

A lot was said a while ago about Fuji giving up on velvia 50.
Well, it's back: fuji has decided to make it available for a while
longer. That's good news in anyone's language.

Will it last forever? Of course not!
Will it last long enough for you to take a lot of
enjoyment out of your MF gear? My guess is:
heck, yeah!


Digital seems to be sweeping in
at a pace, yet I'd like to spend some more time with film and maybe
get few Cibachromes printed if that's going to be possible.

Of course it is possible. And will be for quite
a while yet. Enjoy it. And with the ls9000 you
can do a lot in terms of prep for digital printing, so
give that a go as well.


around UKP 1K. I'm thinking that if film disappears in the future,
and MF digital backs get cheaper, then maybe this camera would let me
stay with what I've bought rather than use it as a paperweight.

My logic too in selecting the rb67. Would have
gone for a rz if it had been affordable at the time.
That's the whole idea ebhind these "system" cameras:
you buy the basics then upgrade as needed and when available.
Don't expect Mamiya to keep supporting it now that they got
the ZD out in force. But there will be 2nd-hand gear available
for a long time yet.

that logic seems OK I'd welcome pointers to the best likely UK sources
of used Mamiya kit, found a few already but recommendations welcome.

Dunno about the UK. I get my gear from ebay, then
send it over to a mechanic to get a CLA. Every once in a while
I get some gear from a dealer depending on availability,
prices, etc. So far, it's working fine.

MASL writes:

BUT 220 film is getting harder to come by, Kodak & Fuji have stopped
some lines.

Indeed. Now as I'm getting my first MF camera that could use 220 film,
it is not very well available in Finland. It can be developed,
though. 120 is still pretty abundant and is what I use.

Regarding development, right now it's easily available. When it ceases
to be available I will have stocked myself up with chemicals and 120
roll films, and limit myself to doing B/W photography. Right now I
develop B/W myself and have color developed by a lab.

On 12 Nov 2006 22:35:51 -0800, "Noons" wrote:

Define "much longer" first?

Yea, good point. Oh I suppose I was hoping for maybe 5 years or so.
Let's hope I suppose.


Will it last forever? Of course not!
Will it last long enough for you to take a lot of
enjoyment out of your MF gear? My guess is:
heck, yeah!

Well that's positive.

The Ebay thing is interesting. 1K sounds a lot of money to spend
there, never looked there for stuff of that value before, but maybe I
shouldn't rule it out.

Thanks for those helpful comments!

Steve

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:21:41 +0200, Toni Nikkanen
wrote:

MASL writes:

BUT 220 film is getting harder to come by, Kodak & Fuji have stopped
some lines.

I guessed 120 backs were the way to go under the circumstances, useful
information thanks.

Steve

Recently, Steve posted:

If I buy MF 120 film gear is there realistic expectation of having
film available for that much longer? Digital seems to be sweeping in
at a pace, yet I'd like to spend some more time with film and maybe
get few Cibachromes printed if that's going to be possible.

I expect color film and digital to coexist for many years. Kodak and
others are still coming up with new formulations, and the pro films are
easily obtainable. Getting color film processed and printed by a lab is
likely to become more difficult over time due to the decreasing volume of
film users and the small number of digital shooters that print their
images commercially.

On the flip side, B&W photography and film is likely to be with us for the
rest of our lives, regardless of how young one might be today.

Neil

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:19:56 GMT, Steve
wrote:


The Ebay thing is interesting. 1K sounds a lot of money to spend
there, never looked there for stuff of that value before, but maybe I
shouldn't rule it out.


Shop carefully. I got a very old but very serviceable
Pentax 67, with 105 mm lens and TTL prism, for $430.

My Pentax 645 kit (another ebay special) set me back
around $600, but that was five years ago and was
in better cosmetic condition.

Forget about putting digital backs on MF cameras,
though. It's just not terribly practical, and is *very*
expensive.

I suspect film will be available for another few years,
but you may have to go to a place like BH Photo to
get it.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:36:58 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

On the flip side, B&W photography and film is likely to be with us for the
rest of our lives, regardless of how young one might be today.

That would be wonderful, what an irreplaceable loss real film and
paper would be to the B+W world. Not done a lot myself, but it's nice
to know I could if I wanted.

Steve

Steve wrote:
I've seen it discussed quite a bit, but I'd like a current view if
people don't mind making a brief comment.

If I buy MF 120 film gear is there realistic expectation of having
film available for that much longer? Digital seems to be sweeping in
at a pace, yet I'd like to spend some more time with film and maybe
get few Cibachromes printed if that's going to be possible.

Medium format film is "downsizing" like many other technologies that are
no longer popular. What this means to you is that it will become a patient
person's hobby.

Unless you live in a city where there still are stores that cater to
medium format users, you probably can't get a roll of film on Sunday anymore.
You probably won't be able to find a camera or accessory in a store and
look it over and "play" with it before you buy it. If your camera needs
service, you won't be able to call around to the several repair shops
in town and see who can fix it the fastest. Finding a lab that processes
your film will be difficult.

If the lack of those things frustrate you, don't get started. If you can
live with a limited choice of locally available film, limited processing
options and having to mail order film and equipment, you'll find that
film, but not always the film you WANT, equipment and service will be
readily available. It may take a few days to get it, but you will be
able to get it.

Film options are changing. 220 film will become rare. IMHO color film will
"dry up" but it will never die of for a long time. Black and White film is
a different issue. It has already become a specialty item. The big producers
are either gone, or going out of the film business. Meanwhile, the specialty
"boutique" producers of film are going strong and there seem to be more
of them in the last few years.

From an artistic point of view, this to me is a good thing. If you are patient
and persistant, the choices in black and white films will be wider because
each producer will be trying to produce an emulsion that is different than
the others, and you won't end up with everyone selling films that
vary more in the packaging than the results.

Color negative films are really heading that way, look at what was available
in the period from 1985 to 1995. I think that was the golden age of color
films. At least for now, color slide film manufacturers are more intersted
in a "look" than "good looking" (but all the same) pictures.

Geoff.

--
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