Close but not quite ready for a DSLR

A bit of history,

My first SLR was a Canon A1 - just after college - enjoy the beast for
several years with a few Canon and offbrand lenses -- finally give the whole
outfit to by niece - many years ago

I hate to say but I then bought a farily nice at the time Minolta APS camera
for camping trips and vacations -- small / light - worked okay for
snapshots -- not the same quality as my old Canon

I also dabbled with video DV during this SLR hiatus -- Canon Optura - does
very decent video

I then switch all still photograhy to digital about 4-5 years ago with a
series of snapshot / small digital cameras

All olympus models -- starting with some 2 MPs and now I have a 4 MP C750Z
and 5 MP C5050 -- They both take very decent pictures within limits - esp
C5050 at 5 MP

I have lurked here for awhile as I have been thinking hard on the purchase
of a DSLR

If I bought today probably would get the 20D Canon and couple of the IS zoom
lenses mentioned here often with maybe one nice prime.

I want a higher MP camera for my fall vacation

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?

steve

If you want P&S type shooting you can get it with a dSLR but I do not see
the point of lugging a dSLR size camera and lenses around if that is your
goal. Digital P&S cameras, especially higher end, are capable of very good
quality for what they are. P&S/EVF cameras sure weigh a lot less when you
are trekking around on an extended vacation.

I have been wrestling with my D70 for 6 months. I hated it at first until I
became one with the zen of RAW. If one is only going to shoot jpeg I believe
there is little reason to use a dSLR. I do not think there is any
overwhelming reason for someone who is happy with P&S/EVF type cameras (I
like a lot of them) to move to dSLR unless you are going to learn how to use
RAW format. The potential of a dSLR is only realized in the RAW format that
allows you tune images to your liking. JPEG tunes by immutable computer
algorithms built into the camera processing chip and renders a dSLR image no
better than the JPEG processing chip built into a P&S/EVF camera.

While there is a significant difference between 8 and a 6 mp sensor the
reality is that if one is not going to print larger than 8.5 x11 the
practical difference is nil. In fact I have printed satisfactory 11 x 14s
from the D70. I do not think most non-pros frquently print that large
anyway.

Steven Toney wrote:

still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?

Leica R9 with back. 10 Mpix. 1.37 crop. Great lenses.

Since it's not $ that are holding you back, of course.

Or even: http://www.mamiya.com/cameras.asp?id=1&id2=2022

Cheers,
Alan


--
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-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

"Steven Toney" wrote in message
ink.net...

A bit of history,

My first SLR was a Canon A1 - just after college - enjoy the beast for
several years with a few Canon and offbrand lenses -- finally give the
whole outfit to by niece - many years ago

I hate to say but I then bought a farily nice at the time Minolta APS
camera for camping trips and vacations -- small / light - worked okay for
snapshots -- not the same quality as my old Canon

I also dabbled with video DV during this SLR hiatus -- Canon Optura - does
very decent video

I then switch all still photograhy to digital about 4-5 years ago with a
series of snapshot / small digital cameras

All olympus models -- starting with some 2 MPs and now I have a 4 MP C750Z
and 5 MP C5050 -- They both take very decent pictures within limits - esp
C5050 at 5 MP

I have lurked here for awhile as I have been thinking hard on the purchase
of a DSLR

If I bought today probably would get the 20D Canon and couple of the IS
zoom lenses mentioned here often with maybe one nice prime.

I want a higher MP camera for my fall vacation

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's
not the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?

steve


Lots of new DSLR offerings are due this year (some very yummy).
Suggest, as i have done, you go with a good p&s til year's end, then enjoy
the choices.
I went with the 8080WZ. Amazing camera.

On Sun, 08 May 2005 16:18:06 GMT, "Steven Toney"
wrote:

A bit of history,

My first SLR was a Canon A1 - just after college - enjoy the beast for
several years with a few Canon and offbrand lenses -- finally give the whole
outfit to by niece - many years ago

I hate to say but I then bought a farily nice at the time Minolta APS camera
for camping trips and vacations -- small / light - worked okay for
snapshots -- not the same quality as my old Canon

I also dabbled with video DV during this SLR hiatus -- Canon Optura - does
very decent video

I then switch all still photograhy to digital about 4-5 years ago with a
series of snapshot / small digital cameras

All olympus models -- starting with some 2 MPs and now I have a 4 MP C750Z
and 5 MP C5050 -- They both take very decent pictures within limits - esp
C5050 at 5 MP

I have lurked here for awhile as I have been thinking hard on the purchase
of a DSLR

If I bought today probably would get the 20D Canon and couple of the IS zoom
lenses mentioned here often with maybe one nice prime.

I want a higher MP camera for my fall vacation

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?

steve

Get the 8080 and wait for one mfg. of DSLRs to offer both IS and
sensor cleaning in one camera.
-Rich

John A. Stovall wrote:

On Sun, 08 May 2005 16:18:06 GMT, "Steven Toney"
wrote:


A bit of history,

My first SLR was a Canon A1 - just after college - enjoy the beast for
several years with a few Canon and offbrand lenses -- finally give the whole
outfit to by niece - many years ago

I hate to say but I then bought a farily nice at the time Minolta APS camera
for camping trips and vacations -- small / light - worked okay for
snapshots -- not the same quality as my old Canon

I also dabbled with video DV during this SLR hiatus -- Canon Optura - does
very decent video

I then switch all still photograhy to digital about 4-5 years ago with a
series of snapshot / small digital cameras

All olympus models -- starting with some 2 MPs and now I have a 4 MP C750Z
and 5 MP C5050 -- They both take very decent pictures within limits - esp
C5050 at 5 MP

I have lurked here for awhile as I have been thinking hard on the purchase
of a DSLR

If I bought today probably would get the 20D Canon and couple of the IS zoom
lenses mentioned here often with maybe one nice prime.

I want a higher MP camera for my fall vacation

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs


Get the 20D now and don't get any of the EF-S lenses and as they
mature and large sensors get cheaper you'll be set for years with just
a body upgrade.


I vote for getting a 350 now plus some really good lenses. I don't know
why everyone is saying DSLRs are not a mature technology. They have
plenty MP, at the low end are quite affordable compared to same MP P&S &
most importantly are much lower noise/better dynamic range, autofocus,
metering, etc. than P&S. I mean if you only shoot in broad daylight, it
doesn't matter as much but I really appreciate the better image quality
of a DSLR. None of these under $4000 is built to last decades like old
film cameras so it's true they aren't that mature but I think a 6 or 8
MP camera should be good for 5 or 10 years & with good lenses, will take
exquisite photos & plenty features for vacation & family shooting. I
wouldn't bother with a 20D unless you plan to get really serious about
photography, with a 350 you'll still be miles ahead of a P&S. The Canon
DSLRs are all very nice cameras. The full frame lenses will never be
obsolete & a C8080 is going to go in the trash in 5 years, with no
possibility of acceptable low light shooting or wide angle. Neither
Canon or Nikon will be integrating anti-shake in the camera.

Other than MP I don't think there is much gain in moving from a 5MP to
an 8MP P&S. Maybe even a drop in image quality. Moving to any DSLR will
get you several stops improvement over a P&S just using the ISO and more
with good lenses.

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants

"Steven Toney" wrote in
ink.net:

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or
Nikon equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let
things mature a bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very
close for me to jump into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with
exchangable lens -- but still just feel things are not quite there yet
to make the switch.

So what is missing from the 20D that you are waiting for? Without knowing
this I couldn't say whether I think it is worth waiting for the next model.

What are the "mid-high digitals with exchangeable lens"? I can't think of
any non-SLR digital cameras with exchangeable lenses.

A lot comes down to what features you need, I don't believe there are any
high resolution P&S or ZLR cameras available that give good results at
ISO1600, not only is the Canon 20D unmatched by any non-SLR digital for
high-ISO noise, but there are none that are close. IF you need good high
ISO performance then the only rivals to the 20D are other D-SLR cameras.

If you need a range of focal lengths that include ultra-wide or super long
then you need a D-SLR. The 20D can capture an angle of view equivalent to
what would be on a 35mm system - 16mm through to over 2000mm if your budget
could stand it. At the long end there are lenses that are not too dear
with a focal length of 500mm which gives you an angle of view equivalent to
800mm, this is without extenders and with working AF.

It's not the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

This means what? What are you actually held back by? D-SLRs have been
around for almost as long as compact digitals, but why is the length of
time that this format of camera has been available for the determining
factor for you?

To be honest, this seems like a rather silly criterion!


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 3-May-05)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"

Steven Toney wrote:

A bit of history,

My first SLR was a Canon A1 - just after college - enjoy the beast for
several years with a few Canon and offbrand lenses -- finally give the whole
outfit to by niece - many years ago

I hate to say but I then bought a farily nice at the time Minolta APS camera
for camping trips and vacations -- small / light - worked okay for
snapshots -- not the same quality as my old Canon

I also dabbled with video DV during this SLR hiatus -- Canon Optura - does
very decent video

I then switch all still photograhy to digital about 4-5 years ago with a
series of snapshot / small digital cameras

All olympus models -- starting with some 2 MPs and now I have a 4 MP C750Z
and 5 MP C5050 -- They both take very decent pictures within limits - esp
C5050 at 5 MP

I have lurked here for awhile as I have been thinking hard on the purchase
of a DSLR

If I bought today probably would get the 20D Canon and couple of the IS zoom
lenses mentioned here often with maybe one nice prime.

I want a higher MP camera for my fall vacation

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?

steve

Yes - just get on with it.
A properly used Canon D350 or Nikon D70 will p*** all over the results
you might get with a P&S camera. Go and get one before you are too old
to enjoy it. Get a high range P&S only if you have a need for something
small.
By the time you wait until you can get a Nikon D2X or Canon 1Ds II
sensor in an affordable package, Canon and Nikon will have other
offerings, probably in the 20mp+ range - where you really will see a
difference in resolution (lenses permitting) compared to 6/8mp - but
only assuming you intend printing your results larger than 10x8 - even
if you do intend photographing test charts. Then you will either have
more excuses to keep procrastinating, or more regrets at the wasted
photo opportunities over the years.

In article . net,
"Steven Toney" wrote:

It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?

These very thoughts and considerations were on my mind when I finally made the
jump to digital last November: Canon 20D.

Along with the Speedlite 580EX, I bought the cheap, "kit" zoom lens and also
was talked into the cheap Canon 75-300 III zoom. I made the whole thing work
with a SanDisk Ultra II 1GB CF card.

I am tickled pink and probably couldn't be much happier had I waited for the
Next Big Thingtm or spent MUCH more money and bought the next "higher" level
of Canon dSLR.

The same concept applies here as it does to ever-evolving computer technology:
Buy now and enjoy the technology during the time that, had you waited, the
technology would have continued to evolve.

I had been waiting to make the switch from my T90 system to digital for a
couple of years - watching, studying and becoming more informed on the
evolving technology. Then came the 20D. Obviously, I decided that that was
the time - and camera - to "push me over the edge" and buy.

Despite its couple or three "warts", none of which have I to yet experience, I
am glad I bought when - and what - I did.


JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article . net,
"Steven Toney" wrote:


It's still tight debate on whether to get say the Olympus C8080 or Nikon
equivalent and wait another year or two on the DSLR to let things mature a
bit more or just do it on the 20D?? I feel it very close for me to jump
into DSLR versus the other mid-high digitals with exchangable lens -- but
still just feel things are not quite there yet to make the switch. It's not
the $$ that is holding me back just the maturity of the DSLRs

thoughts?


These very thoughts and considerations were on my mind when I finally made the
jump to digital last November: Canon 20D.

Along with the Speedlite 580EX, I bought the cheap, "kit" zoom lens and also
was talked into the cheap Canon 75-300 III zoom. I made the whole thing work
with a SanDisk Ultra II 1GB CF card.

I am tickled pink and probably couldn't be much happier had I waited for the
Next Big Thingtm or spent MUCH more money and bought the next "higher" level
of Canon dSLR.

The same concept applies here as it does to ever-evolving computer technology:
Buy now and enjoy the technology during the time that, had you waited, the
technology would have continued to evolve.

I had been waiting to make the switch from my T90 system to digital for a
couple of years - watching, studying and becoming more informed on the
evolving technology. Then came the 20D. Obviously, I decided that that was
the time - and camera - to "push me over the edge" and buy.

Despite its couple or three "warts", none of which have I to yet experience, I
am glad I bought when - and what - I did.


JR


The fact of life is when a technology is mature, it's going to be
replaced soon: film-digital, laser disc - DVD - HiDVD, MD - MDLP -
Hi-MD. Canon 20D beat 35mm film and you should get it if you can afford it.