A history of changes in Photoshop Elements?

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

OK...I see what you're doing. You are making a selection that is a
fixed size of 4" x 6" (and possibly a second selection that is 8" x
10"), saving them, and then loading them when you are finished with
the image.

I don't see how this is different from cropping (with either the crop
tool or the marquee and EditCrop) as a last step. If do this, and
then print before saving, I can delete the crop, crop in the other
size, print the other size before saving, and then save in the
original size.

the difference is that the last step can be one of several, and i can
continue retouching or adjusting without affecting the crop.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:38:38 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

OK...I see what you're doing. You are making a selection that is a
fixed size of 4" x 6" (and possibly a second selection that is 8" x
10"), saving them, and then loading them when you are finished with
the image.

I don't see how this is different from cropping (with either the crop
tool or the marquee and EditCrop) as a last step. If do this, and
then print before saving, I can delete the crop, crop in the other
size, print the other size before saving, and then save in the
original size.

the difference is that the last step can be one of several, and i can
continue retouching or adjusting without affecting the crop.

I just don't understand. If you load the selection, Imagecrop, and
then make other changes, how can you go back and delete the crop
without also deleting the subsequent changes? I just tried it in CS4
and the subsequent change was deleted when I went to History and
deleted the crop.

I know you can *add* changes, but you can do that after a regular
crop.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

I just don't understand. If you load the selection, Imagecrop, and
then make other changes, how can you go back and delete the crop
without also deleting the subsequent changes? I just tried it in CS4
and the subsequent change was deleted when I went to History and
deleted the crop.

crop, print or save a copy, then undo the crop. you always work with
the original full size image and never save the cropped image. only
the crop mask is saved for later use.

if you don't ever expect to make a change to the crop then there's no
need to do any of this.

in any event, lightroom makes this a whole lot easier. ten years ago,
this was about the only way to do it.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:27:52 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

I just don't understand. If you load the selection, Imagecrop, and
then make other changes, how can you go back and delete the crop
without also deleting the subsequent changes? I just tried it in CS4
and the subsequent change was deleted when I went to History and
deleted the crop.

crop, print or save a copy, then undo the crop. you always work with
the original full size image and never save the cropped image. only
the crop mask is saved for later use.

if you don't ever expect to make a change to the crop then there's no
need to do any of this.

OK. However, the exact same result is possible using the crop tool
and following the same steps less making the selection.

Any of us who are experienced users of Photoshop know that there is
always - always - more than one way to do something. We read posts in
Photoshop newsgroups, tutorials, books, and magazines and check out
and try other ways to do what we're already doing hoping for a better,
faster, or easier way.

Usually, we end up doing what we're comfortable with.

in any event, lightroom makes this a whole lot easier. ten years ago,
this was about the only way to do it.

I like working on the full image and not cropping in Bridge. I want a
sense of the whole image even though I know I'm going to crop it. I
also use the whole image because sometimes my white, black and midtone
points are outside of the crop area. I usually apply Curves to the
image.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 6/19/09 2:49 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , John Navas
wrote:

If it's just a "crop", but not if other manipulation is to be
applied,
except as a new image.

wrong. by saving the crop as a selection, other adjustments can be
made and the crop reapplied at a later point.

And the original image will still be lost.

wrong.

Whatever you say.

i've been doing exactly that for over a decade until i switched to
lightroom. it works as i described and telling me i can't do what i've
been doing makes you look foolish.

With that insult you concede the debate. Thanks for saving me the time.
And feel free to rant on without me -- I'm giving you the last word.

i was expecting that copy/paste. do you have a scrapbook of responses
ready to go? it's always the *exact* same text, every time. maybe
you're actually a bot.

as i said, i've been doing non-destructive crops in photoshop for over
a decade. it's not as easy as it is in lightroom but it works and not
how you describe.

the fact that you refuse to accept it says more about you than it does
about me. and if you want to take that as an insult, by all means do
so, because (here is an actual insult) you are stubborn and refuse to
learn from others who might know more about something than you do.

The facts a

!. NavAss get bored and comes in here spouting a lot of nonsense.

2. People call him out because he is so full of ****.

3. He increases his crap post.

4. More people correct him.

5. He does not acknowledge the facts given and continues.

6. At some point, he finds something else (maybe his naval) to entertain his
feeble mind and will go away for a few months, usually to another newsgroup
to troll.

7. Rinse and repeat.

In article ,
tony cooper wrote:

I like working on the full image and not cropping in Bridge. I want a
sense of the whole image even though I know I'm going to crop it. I
also use the whole image because sometimes my white, black and midtone
points are outside of the crop area. I usually apply Curves to the
image.

Tony, for christs sake, just keep a copy of the original and forget all
this mental masturbation.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:16:20 -0700, clw wrote:

In article ,
tony cooper wrote:

I like working on the full image and not cropping in Bridge. I want a
sense of the whole image even though I know I'm going to crop it. I
also use the whole image because sometimes my white, black and midtone
points are outside of the crop area. I usually apply Curves to the
image.

Tony, for christs sake, just keep a copy of the original and forget all
this mental masturbation.

What are you talking about? I burn the original .dng file to disk and
keep that. The above applies to what is done in Photoshop. At the
end of the editing, I delete everything except the .dng and the
finished file in whatever format is appropriate.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:33:18 -0700, John Navas
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:24:58 -0400, tony cooper
wrote in
:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:16:20 -0700, clw wrote:

In article ,
tony cooper wrote:

I like working on the full image and not cropping in Bridge. I want a
sense of the whole image even though I know I'm going to crop it. I
also use the whole image because sometimes my white, black and midtone
points are outside of the crop area. I usually apply Curves to the
image.

Tony, for christs sake, just keep a copy of the original and forget all
this mental masturbation.

What are you talking about? I burn the original .dng file to disk and
keep that. The above applies to what is done in Photoshop. At the
end of the editing, I delete everything except the .dng and the
finished file in whatever format is appropriate.

My own practice is to make adjustments to original images as needed in
layers, and save it as a PSD file for archiving. That way I can mess
with the adjustment when I have better tools and/or more skill without
having to start over. And I'm confident the PSD file format will be
alive longer than me.

I keep the .dng file and the .jpg for almost all images. If it's an
image I'm particularly fond of, I'll also keep it as a .tiff with the
layers. I don't routinely do this, though.

In theory, it's a good idea to be able to go back to work on an image.
In practice - at least, my own - I don't find myself doing that very
often.

The .dngs are burned to a disk and not kept on my hard drive. The
..jpgs are kept in folders by subject and date on my hard drive and
copies on my external drive. The .psds are kept in a WORK file that
is purged every month or so.

Additionally, I will periodically burn two disks of my family photos
and send one to my daughter and one to my son. The rest of the stuff
is for my own enjoyment, and if it melts away it's no great loss.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"michael adams" wrote:


"nospam" wrote in message
.. .
In article , michael adams
wrote:

No, anyone with experience may well have already set up a specific
directory named "studio", "workshop", "lab", etc. into which they copy
any file they're going to process, leaving the originals intact in their
original directories.

which doesn't solve the original poster's problem.

Nothing presently being discussed can solve the original poster's problem.

Merely possible ways of avoiding the same thing happening it in the future.


michael adams

...
Thanks Michael and other posters
Looks like I need to crop the photo last instead of first and save the
cropped copy as a seperate file.

Regards Brian

tony cooper wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:41:20 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

I cropped a photo then make some chages to the light and colour of the
photo. I now find that the cropping was wrong. Is there a way to undo
step one (the cropping) and leave the other changes I made to the
photo?

no. that's one of the advantages of lightroom - everything is
non-destructive and you can undo changes, including crops.

in photoshop, once you crop, those parts of the image are gone.

Not quite. Once you close the file, the cropped-out parts are gone.

obviously.

However, before the file is closed, Control Z (un-do) or F12 (revert)
restores the full image.

you would need to undo all the way back to the crop step, losing any
changes made after that, which is the situation the original poster is
describing.



Of course, anyone with experience will "save as" the cropped image and
retain the original file.

no, anyone with experience would save the crop as a selection to be
used later, or use different software entirely.

I can't think of a reason why. Not as a general rule, anyway.
Normally you don't have much reason to undo a crop later in the
process. You might crop, not like it, and then undo the crop and crop
differently, but the Control Z just undoes the crop.

The "save as" step protects the original and all steps before the
"save as". Even if you crop as a selection and save the selection, it
would be smart to "save as".

My workflow is to download the RAW files (converted to .dng), do any
necessary adjustments, and crop last. There might be times when I'll
crop and then use the healing brush for some minor bits because I
don't want to bother using the healing brush on bits outside of the
crop area, though. Sharpening is another step I might hold to last,
but that depends on how I sharpen and how much.

In full Photoshop, during edits using adjustment layers, I'll "merge
visible" holding the ALT key down with only the background copy layer
and the adjustment layer with the eye on. This allows me to make
another adjustment layer and keep the other AL available to change.
Then I'll do a "save as". If it's a really complicated editing
process, I may have three or four versions save at various steps.

(I have both Elements 5.0 and CS4, but do editing using CS4. I keep
E5.0 because that's what my daughter uses and I sometimes prepare some
basic tutorials for her.)

I haven't seen your method suggested in any of the books or tutorials,
but perhaps I've just missed them. It seems like an unnecessary extra
step just for the contingency of not liking the crop. Especially when
a crop can be re-done multiple times with Control Z. I assume you
have your reasons, though.

Thanks Tony for your help.
I started to crop photos for these reasons
1 So others can print them as a 6 x 4 inch photo without parts of the
photo missing
2 so they could be shown on a TV without too much picture missing or
reduced in size
3 To remove any distracting background
After I had cropped photos that I wanted to use as a slideshow I
watched them on TV and noticed that the part of the area at the top
and bottom of the photos was missing. This was a problem when the
person;s head is at the very top of the photo so I need to recrop
these photos again as only part of the persons head is shown on a TV.
Lucky for me that I still have the original photos in my camera.

Regards Brian