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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?



 
 
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  #41  
Old April 3rd 13, 01:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,misc.legal
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

On 2013-04-02 16:43:16 -0700, "Frank S" said:


"Savageduck" wrote in message
news:2013040215500089814-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
On 2013-04-02 14:37:54 -0700, Scott Schuckert said:

In article 2013040213025428635-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

A little verifiable research provides the answers to quite a few
questions regarding this subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...Postal_Service

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Thank you. I will throw this in the face of the Significant Other next
time she starts up with the "I'm NOT a government employee!" stuff.


The whole issue of the private company vs Government agency argument
can be confusing, mainly due to the way it is funded and the employees'
pension fund is dealt with.
Note: that due to a bunch of Federal budget changes, postal workers are
no longer part of the Civil Service Retirement System and no longer
have payroll deductions into that system. Your wife should be part
whatever Postal Civil Service Retirement Service provides. Due to this



seperation


she might not consider herself a "Government employee", but
she should check and confirm that the term "Civil Servant" is part of
how her wages are paid, and what she is going to depend on regarding
her pension.

Then, in the Wikipedia article above there is the confusing statement,
"The United States Postal Service is a Fortune 500 company." That of
course conflicts with the opening statement, "The USPS is an
independant agency of the United States government responsible for
providing postal service in the United States. Once one checks to
discover that there is no trading of the USPS on the NYSE or NASDAQ
that issue is a little clearer. The Fortune 500 ranking is due to its
status as the USA's second largest civilian employer with 574,000
personnel (as of 2011).

The other thing to consider is crimes associated with Postal Service in
the USA is dealt with by a Federal Law enforcement agency, and all
associated Postal crimes are Federal crimes punishable in Federal
Court, not State or local ordinances.

So while you wife might, as a Postal Worker, feel abandoned by the US
government in many ways, she is still intrinsically part of it, and can
wear the label "Civil Servant" with honor.



10-4.

There is "a rat" in "separate".


Phingrr phawlt


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #42  
Old December 16th 14, 08:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mark Sieving
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Posts: 55
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

On Monday, April 1, 2013 1:37:35 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 12:46:53 -0700 Frank S wrote:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/53/152...992d24ff_o.jpg
USPS employee at work in the Passport Photo Studio, February 2005.


But, is it illegal, as the OIC said, or not?
Anyone know for sure?


Old question, but if anyone is still interested:

https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../info_005.html

Photography and Filming for Personal Use

Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal
use may be allowed at the postmaster's discretion provided
that there is no disruption to Postal Service operations
and that the pictures are taken from areas accessible to
the public. In these cases, no prior permis-sion is required
from the Office of Rights and Permissions; however, no
lighting or scaffolding may be set up, and no picture can
depict any Postal Service employee, customer, security camera,
or cover of mail (i.e., the exterior of a mail-piece, which
would show customer name and address among other things).
Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they
determine that it is disruptive or there are potential
security concerns.
  #43  
Old June 19th 15, 12:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

In article ,
wrote:

I don't know where any of you are getting your legal opinions, but it is
illegal to photograph ANY federal building, including Post Offices - period!!


nonsense.
  #44  
Old June 19th 15, 04:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Davoud
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Posts: 639
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

:
I don't know where any of you are getting your legal opinions, but it is
illegal to photograph ANY federal building, including Post Offices - period!!


Really? The tourist season is upon us in Washington, D.C. Each year
millions upon millions of photographs are made of the White House, the
U.S. Capitol, the museums, and every other federal building that has
even the tiniest bit of historical or architectural significance. And
it's all legal.

So, unless you want to end up on a no-fly list for the rest of your days, I
wouldn't push the issue. And, I totally don't understand what you were
trying to do with the 32 cent stamps, but exchanging stamps is not allowed
and sticking them on a piece of paper invalidates the stamp, whether or not
that it has been 'cancelled' (we don't "stamp" stamps, we cancel them)


You're just downright laughable.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #45  
Old June 19th 15, 05:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_7_]
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Posts: 269
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

On 2015-06-19 03:42:09 +0000, Davoud said:

:
I don't know where any of you are getting your legal opinions, but it is
illegal to photograph ANY federal building, including Post Offices - period!!


Really? The tourist season is upon us in Washington, D.C. Each year
millions upon millions of photographs are made of the White House, the
U.S. Capitol, the museums, and every other federal building that has
even the tiniest bit of historical or architectural significance. And
it's all legal.

So, unless you want to end up on a no-fly list for the rest of your days, I
wouldn't push the issue. And, I totally don't understand what you were
trying to do with the 32 cent stamps, but exchanging stamps is not allowed
and sticking them on a piece of paper invalidates the stamp, whether or not
that it has been 'cancelled' (we don't "stamp" stamps, we cancel them)


You're just downright laughable.


The only thing which might be problematic for a photographer shooting
shots of any employee inside a post office is, regardless of it being a
Federal building, the employees have privacy rights at their place of
work. I would imagine the postmaster has every right to deny taking
shots of any of the employees without a release, and I doubt that would
be signed, particularly since the photographer is a crank with an
agenda.

I imagine that this nut was a hair's breath from being hauled out of
there as a trespasser.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #46  
Old September 16th 16, 05:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
[email protected]
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Posts: 1
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

I tried to take a photo of the letter that was stamped and ready to go off on its journey ... I did that just for my own records - no clerk or any human for that matter was photographed - today the guy told me that I can't take photos ... I don't understand WHY ... :/ I photographed the envelope - NOTHING ELSE ... assholes


On Friday, March 29, 2013 at 10:14:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office?

Today, in California, I tried to exchange a book of 32 cent
stamps for current stamps, which is something that I have been doing for
decades (whenever they change the prices) at a value-for-value
rate (lately I've been exchanging for "forever stamps" at the
current rate).

In the past, many times, I merely placed the stamps on a sheet
of paper, in the presence of the clerk, thereby making them
unstamped, but still valid.

However, after watching me, the clerk would not allow the
exchange, citing an unwritten "new regulation" that disallows
this common practice. I snapped photos of the transaction, in the
clear presence of everyone (there were about 3 clerks present),
and there was absolutely no protest (it as a large Nikon SLR
which I happened to have hanging on my neck as I was returning
from an outing and stopped at the Post Office by way of errand).

Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who
indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of
the clerk "without permission".

I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping
pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also
ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that
I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so.

May I ask:
Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects,
is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record
the transaction?

  #47  
Old September 16th 16, 05:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

On 2016-09-16 04:02:59 +0000, said:

I tried to take a photo of the letter that was stamped and ready to go off
on its journey ... I did that just for my own records - no clerk or any hum
an for that matter was photographed - today the guy told me that I can't ta
ke photos ... I don't understand WHY ... :/ I photographed the envelope - N
OTHING ELSE ... assholes


You are not in a public open space. Effectively you are on USPS
property which is the same as any corporate property and the moment you
walk through the door and you no longer have the right to take
photographs as you would if you were on the street or in a park where
there are no restrictions ad everybody is fair game. If you wanted to
take a photo of the letter before mailing it, you should have done that
before entering the post office. I would not be surprised to find a
notice posted regarding photography of any type in a Post Office. You
might fid it alond with the notice stating that it is a Federal crime
to take a firearm into a Federal building.


On Friday, March 29, 2013 at 10:14:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office?

Today, in California, I tried to exchange a book of 32 cent
stamps for current stamps, which is something that I have been doing for


decades (whenever they change the prices) at a value-for-value
rate (lately I've been exchanging for "forever stamps" at the
current rate).

In the past, many times, I merely placed the stamps on a sheet
of paper, in the presence of the clerk, thereby making them
unstamped, but still valid.

However, after watching me, the clerk would not allow the
exchange, citing an unwritten "new regulation" that disallows
this common practice. I snapped photos of the transaction, in the
clear presence of everyone (there were about 3 clerks present),
and there was absolutely no protest (it as a large Nikon SLR
which I happened to have hanging on my neck as I was returning
from an outing and stopped at the Post Office by way of errand).

Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who
indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of
the clerk "without permission".

I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping
pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also
ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that
I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so.

May I ask:
Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects,
is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record
the transaction?



--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #48  
Old September 22nd 16, 01:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
lj
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Posts: 1
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a PostOffice?

I tried to take a photo of the letter that was stamped and ready to go off
on its journey ... I did that just for my own records - no clerk or any hum
an for that matter was photographed - today the guy told me that I can't ta
ke photos ... I don't understand WHY ...


Because it is the law.
Title 39 CFR 232.1 "Conduct on Postal Property", see (h) (5) (i) therein.
For example at https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/232.1

Short summary: News photography is allowed, all others require permission of
the postmaster.

There probably should be a poster up somewhere in the post office public area
titled "Rules and Regulations Governing Conduct on Postal Service Property"
with this and many other rules.
  #49  
Old July 7th 18, 05:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

On Jul 7, 2018, wrote
(in ):

Taking photographs of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is a
constitutional right – and that includes federal buildings, transportation
facilities, and police and other government officials carrying out their
duties.


This is quite an old question which has been churned over quite often on the
photo NGs.

First of all, your assertion that taking photographs of things that are
plainly visible from public spaces is a constitutional right is a tad
misleading. The constitution does not address photography, and saying that
the act of taking a photograph is covered by the First Amendment is a bit of
a stretch.

Unfortunately, there is a widespread, continuing pattern of law
enforcement officers ordering people to stop taking photographs from public
places, and harassing, detaining and arresting those who fail to comply.
LEARN MORE


Ignorance has been known to infect law enforcement officers. However,
regardless of how right you might be, your entire day could be ruined if you
decide to debate any such ignorant officer.

mytubethumbplay
Privacy statement. This embed will serve content from youtube.com.
When in public spaces where you are lawfully present you have the right to
photograph anything that is in plain view.


....er, OK.

When you are on private property, the property owner may set rules about the
taking of photographs.


....and they do, that includes the private property of the USPS.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #50  
Old July 8th 18, 03:11 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 08:12:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Taking photographs of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is a constitutional right – and that includes federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties. Unfortunately, there is a widespread, continuing pattern of law enforcement officers ordering

people to stop taking photographs from public places, and harassing, detaining and arresting those who fail to comply. LEARN MORE

mytubethumbplay
Privacy statement. This embed will serve content from youtube.com.
When in public spaces where you are lawfully present you have the right to photograph anything that is in plain view.
When you are on private property, the property owner may set rules about the taking of photographs.


I seem to the question of your subject line was debated at length some
time ago and the conclusion that was eventually reached was that:

1. A Post Office is a space to which the public may have access but
it is not a 'public space' in the strict sense of that term.

2. The post office and its premises are the subject of acts and
regulations which define what should or should not be done.

3. Photographs may not be taken within a post office of the staff or
the premises without the permission of the post master.

I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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