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Agfapan 25



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 7th 04, 06:10 AM
John
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:27:29 GMT, "no-name"
wrote:

Donald is an highly reliable source, but this information is not correct.
Yes, Minopan 25 is Agfapan 25. But it is not a microfilm.

Although Agfa discontinued their Agfapan 25 film about two years ago, Minox
has a considerable stockpile and will probably continue offering Minopan 25
for years. It is processed in standard developers like Rodinal, D-76, etc.
It is not a substitute for Technical Pan since it is much grainier. Tech Pan
is, in essence, a microfilm, albiet a modified one, which is why it needs
special development.

Agfa will not re-commence making Agfapan 25. The best substitute for it is
Maco UP25


You are correct in all of the above information of course. I
have 20 rolls of 120 left and 2 children to shoot them on. IMO APX25
was simply the most beautiful film ever produced. I found Zone VI's PQ
developer to work great with it.

As far as Tech Pan, I really like the Formularies (Bill
Troops') TD-3 developer.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Next time vote "No! for the status quo and vote 3rd party !!
  #24  
Old November 7th 04, 11:16 AM
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
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In article , John wrote:
IMO APX25 was simply the most beautiful film ever produced.


Interesting. I've heard this often about APX25, KB14 (KB25), PAN-X, and PAN-F,
occasionaly about Plus-X, rarely about TRI-X and NEVER about T-MAX or the
chromgenic (XP-1/XP-2, etc) films.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel

IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838

  #25  
Old November 7th 04, 05:56 PM
Greg
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In article RTUid.55498$VA5.18482@clgrps13, "no-name"
wrote:
Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca



Not sure whether this post is actually from David Foy, given the fact that
there's no real name on the post. If it is, he should have remembered what he
posted on photo.net in October, 2003:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=004JAv


David Foy , oct 08, 2003; 10:45 a.m.
Disclaimer: I am the person who makes and sells these products.

"Bluefire Police" film is a microfilm, Tura Pan Line, made and packaged in
Germany. "Bluefire HR" developer is based on the H&W Control formula, as
disclosed in the patent, functionally identical but slightly modified for
longer package life. It gives similar results with Fuji Super HR and Agfa
Copex Rapid Pan AHU (which was the original H&W film).

The rating of EI 80 is realistic. The Bluefire film/developer combination
compares favorably with the only other similar film/developer combination
widely available today, which is Kodak Technical Pan and Technidol developer,
which is most often shot at about EI 25.

Manufacture and marketing of the Bluefire products is now in the hands of
Adox Fotowerke, Inc., who will give them wider distribution. The Adox
Fotowerke web site (http://www.adox.net) does not yet have information
available as of this date (early October 2003).

David Foy



I certainly hope this helps to clear up any confusion.

--Greg


--------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Mikol

This email address is registered with the Washington State
Attorney General's office and WAISP.

Unsolicited Commercial Email sent to this address in violation
of RCW 19.190.020 is subject to civil penalties of $500 per
offense.
  #26  
Old November 7th 04, 05:56 PM
Greg
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In article RTUid.55498$VA5.18482@clgrps13, "no-name"
wrote:
Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca



Not sure whether this post is actually from David Foy, given the fact that
there's no real name on the post. If it is, he should have remembered what he
posted on photo.net in October, 2003:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=004JAv


David Foy , oct 08, 2003; 10:45 a.m.
Disclaimer: I am the person who makes and sells these products.

"Bluefire Police" film is a microfilm, Tura Pan Line, made and packaged in
Germany. "Bluefire HR" developer is based on the H&W Control formula, as
disclosed in the patent, functionally identical but slightly modified for
longer package life. It gives similar results with Fuji Super HR and Agfa
Copex Rapid Pan AHU (which was the original H&W film).

The rating of EI 80 is realistic. The Bluefire film/developer combination
compares favorably with the only other similar film/developer combination
widely available today, which is Kodak Technical Pan and Technidol developer,
which is most often shot at about EI 25.

Manufacture and marketing of the Bluefire products is now in the hands of
Adox Fotowerke, Inc., who will give them wider distribution. The Adox
Fotowerke web site (http://www.adox.net) does not yet have information
available as of this date (early October 2003).

David Foy



I certainly hope this helps to clear up any confusion.

--Greg


--------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Mikol

This email address is registered with the Washington State
Attorney General's office and WAISP.

Unsolicited Commercial Email sent to this address in violation
of RCW 19.190.020 is subject to civil penalties of $500 per
offense.
  #27  
Old November 7th 04, 07:02 PM
Christian Kolinski
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Default

wrote:
no-name wrote:


The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.


Well, I'm not Mr. Foy, nor do I sell any film, but FWIW:

Films like Gigabit or Bluefire are, to my knowlege, based on microfilm emulsions
like Agfa Copex Rapid, as mentioned by Mr. Foy.

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

Copex Rapid is Agfas "fast" microfilm, and is only available in
16 and 35mm. So the only possibility to get Copex Rapid (and therefor Gigabit
and other products based on it) in 120 would be to special order this emulsion
by Agfa, which would be $$$ and the minimum order is huge. This is most propably
the reason why Gigabit sheet-film is another emulsion than the 35mm perf.

Agfa offers a "medium" speed microfilm - Agfa Copex HDP - which is said to have
even finer grain as Copex Rapid, but is much slower.
Copex HDP however is sold in 105mmx61m rolls. So here it may be possible
to cut size 120 (which is about 61mm wide). And you would have some leftover to
cut 127 or 16mm or Minox size from.
I don't think this would be an option as the result would be much slower than
Gigabit or Bluefire, I would guess about ASA 20... or less.



For information on Agfa microfilm and available sizes:
http://www.agfa.com/mds/microfilm/co...ssortment.html


just my 0.02Euro
Christian
  #28  
Old November 7th 04, 07:02 PM
Christian Kolinski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
no-name wrote:


The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.


Well, I'm not Mr. Foy, nor do I sell any film, but FWIW:

Films like Gigabit or Bluefire are, to my knowlege, based on microfilm emulsions
like Agfa Copex Rapid, as mentioned by Mr. Foy.

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

Copex Rapid is Agfas "fast" microfilm, and is only available in
16 and 35mm. So the only possibility to get Copex Rapid (and therefor Gigabit
and other products based on it) in 120 would be to special order this emulsion
by Agfa, which would be $$$ and the minimum order is huge. This is most propably
the reason why Gigabit sheet-film is another emulsion than the 35mm perf.

Agfa offers a "medium" speed microfilm - Agfa Copex HDP - which is said to have
even finer grain as Copex Rapid, but is much slower.
Copex HDP however is sold in 105mmx61m rolls. So here it may be possible
to cut size 120 (which is about 61mm wide). And you would have some leftover to
cut 127 or 16mm or Minox size from.
I don't think this would be an option as the result would be much slower than
Gigabit or Bluefire, I would guess about ASA 20... or less.



For information on Agfa microfilm and available sizes:
http://www.agfa.com/mds/microfilm/co...ssortment.html


just my 0.02Euro
Christian
  #29  
Old November 7th 04, 07:02 PM
Christian Kolinski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
no-name wrote:


The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.


Well, I'm not Mr. Foy, nor do I sell any film, but FWIW:

Films like Gigabit or Bluefire are, to my knowlege, based on microfilm emulsions
like Agfa Copex Rapid, as mentioned by Mr. Foy.

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

Copex Rapid is Agfas "fast" microfilm, and is only available in
16 and 35mm. So the only possibility to get Copex Rapid (and therefor Gigabit
and other products based on it) in 120 would be to special order this emulsion
by Agfa, which would be $$$ and the minimum order is huge. This is most propably
the reason why Gigabit sheet-film is another emulsion than the 35mm perf.

Agfa offers a "medium" speed microfilm - Agfa Copex HDP - which is said to have
even finer grain as Copex Rapid, but is much slower.
Copex HDP however is sold in 105mmx61m rolls. So here it may be possible
to cut size 120 (which is about 61mm wide). And you would have some leftover to
cut 127 or 16mm or Minox size from.
I don't think this would be an option as the result would be much slower than
Gigabit or Bluefire, I would guess about ASA 20... or less.



For information on Agfa microfilm and available sizes:
http://www.agfa.com/mds/microfilm/co...ssortment.html


just my 0.02Euro
Christian
  #30  
Old November 7th 04, 08:29 PM
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Default

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote
John wrote:
IMO APX25 was simply the most beautiful film ever produced.


Interesting. I've heard this often about APX25, KB14 (KB25), PAN-X, and PAN-F,
occasionaly about Plus-X [let me guess, only about the sheet film, ed.],
rarely about TRI-X and NEVER about T-MAX or the chromgenic (XP-1/XP-2, etc)

films.

You will hear it about T-Max when it, too, is no longer made.

I still have some 18 rolls (? Pro/Press pack - 2 rolls) of APX25 in the
freezer. Pretty ho-hum stuff, IMO.

However, most of my freezer is filled with Kodachrome and Tech Pan --
"simply the most beautiful films ever produced".

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

 




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