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#12
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#13
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Ryadia@Home wrote:
Yes. Mrs Browne wished for a boy with good looks, smart wit and high intellect. Unfortunately she got Alan!. Your mother thought anal sex with a donkey wouldn't get her pregnant. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. |
#14
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Alan Browne wrote:
It is not in Nikon's interest to tell everyone their innovations in (say) automatic white balance, or in Canon's interest to spill their beans (say) fancy device physics for optimal bias estimation in long exposure images. No. They give away all the data to "qualified" software developers. That is a matter for Nikon to decide, not OpenRAW. They are not protecting anything to a degree where it would remain a secret for more that a week or so. That it can be cracked easilly by writers of sw such as dcraw are testimony to the fact that it is pointless. If it can be "cracked" easily, then OpenRAW has no point. If you don't like Nikon's or Canon's policies about any of this, you are free to purchase the products of other companies. Right? Or is someone forcing you to purchase Nikon's software? Yes, Nikon. For a person with 000's of dollars in Nikon glass, being forced to purchase more beyond a camera is simple wallet gouging. Nikon is forcing you? Really? Well, if anyone forced me to do something I didn't want to do I would report the incident as the crime it is. Really, what exactly is the problem here? If anything, the very existance of Dave Coffin's "dcraw" makes the ranting Reichmann, et al, look very kookish, and rendering the entire "OpenRaw" issue moot: RAW file formats are as open as can be, _despite_ the best efforts of Nikon. The point is to stop these idiotic and pointless 'races' in the future. Again, who is forcing you to participate in these "races"? |
#15
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wrote:
If it can be "cracked" easily, then OpenRAW has no point. It's the other way around logic-boy. If you don't like Nikon's or Canon's policies about any of this, you are free to purchase the products of other companies. Right? Or is someone forcing you to purchase Nikon's software? Yes, Nikon. For a person with 000's of dollars in Nikon glass, being forced to purchase more beyond a camera is simple wallet gouging. Nikon is forcing you? Really? Well, if anyone forced me to do something I didn't want to do I would report the incident as the crime it is. Oh sheesh. It's not like you decide one day "I hate those Mazda *******s" and change car brands. Replacing a lens collection is not trivial. Nikon have a lot of loyal customers who are now having part of their own images encrypted and requiring Nikon authorized s/w to read it. The point is to stop these idiotic and pointless 'races' in the future. Again, who is forcing you to participate in these "races"? Nikon. By encrypting part of MY image without my consent. Cheers, Alan. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. |
#16
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Ryadia@Home wrote:
RichA wrote: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/raw-flaw.shtml I'll offer a more realistic, less dramatic scenario. You shoot RAW as most do. Then you convert that RAW data - because that's all it is at that time - to an image format. In the case of a Canon the best choice is TIFF but there are others. Now you have an editable "image" file with all the detail of the original image in it and capable of being processed further in just about any image editor know to man at this time. Bloody sensationalist bull **** is all that comes out of that site. Not exactly. If the some crucial bit of data is encrypted, obscured or just not known, you may only get all the information out by using the manufacturers software. You may not like the manufacturer's processing choices. The manufacturer may also cease to support that format in the future. It's not bull****, it's already happening. You may not care. I and other do. -- J www.urbanvoyeur.com |
#17
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Alan Browne wrote:
48V twisted pair POTS is a "standard" invented at the dawn of the telephone era. There are many engineers who wish we could rip the entire mess out of the ground, off the poles and start over again. Offer praises to Allah or whoever that cell phones, VOIP and the rest of it are doing the job indirectly. Backward compatibilty is not compromised by forward progress where data formats are concerned. Then you must agree that OpenRAW is without a legitimate function. What's good for the goose, etc. Or, if you prefer, open RAW does not mean 'cast in concrete'. Each OEM can do as he likes as long as the format is readable by all, and special data sections are clearly documented. As I said, this will in many instances necessarily reveal trade secrets or other facets of the technology that the manufacturers would likely be unwilling to disclose. And if part of the OpenRAW is the signing of an NDA, then can we honestly call it "open"? Regarding the olde telephone analog standard it has served extremely well for a very long time. Real engineers are too practical to "wish" for solutions that don't make economic sense. If some djinn were to remove the need to work against the crazy POTS nonsense, many communications engineers would be profoundly thankful. Indeed, they must be: look at where all the innovation is occuring today telephony. I can cite similar software and hardware examples. _NO ONE_ likes to deal with legacy systems. This backward compatibilty 'tax' is far cheaper than "ripping the entire mess out of the ground..." You are forgetting or ignoring the cost of innovations that are simply unimplementable within the legacy framework. It is for this and other reasons that the sensible person does not want camera manufacturers constrained by some Adobe or OpenRAW or otherwise committee drafted multi-volume 2356 page standard written in dense legalese. |
#18
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Ryadia@Home wrote:
You shoot RAW as most do. Then you convert that RAW data - because that's all it is at that time - to an image format. In the case of a Canon the best choice is TIFF but there are others. Now you have an editable "image" file with all the detail of the original image in it That still won't have *all* the original info. Better than a jpeg but much less than the raw file. and capable of being processed further in just about any image editor know to man at this time. Bloody sensationalist bull **** is all that comes out of that site. Douglas -- Paul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 san francisco native plants |
#19
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Alan Browne wrote:
If it can be "cracked" easily, then OpenRAW has no point. It's the other way around logic-boy. Ok, then, "OpenRAW has no point if the file formats can be cracked easily". You admit the file formats can be cracked easily, therefore ... If you don't like Nikon's or Canon's policies about any of this, you are free to purchase the products of other companies. Right? Or is someone forcing you to purchase Nikon's software? Yes, Nikon. For a person with 000's of dollars in Nikon glass, being forced to purchase more beyond a camera is simple wallet gouging. Nikon is forcing you? Really? Well, if anyone forced me to do something I didn't want to do I would report the incident as the crime it is. Oh sheesh. It's not like you decide one day "I hate those Mazda *******s" and change car brands. Replacing a lens collection is not trivial. Nikon have a lot of loyal customers who are now having part of their own images encrypted and requiring Nikon authorized s/w to read it. Nikon can also change their lens mount. What are you going to do, sue them? After OpenRAW has passed their legislation mandating The File Format, is the next step to mandate interoperable optics? The point is to stop these idiotic and pointless 'races' in the future. Again, who is forcing you to participate in these "races"? Nikon. By encrypting part of MY image without my consent. You consented to it by pressing the shutter button. |
#20
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wrote:
Alan Browne wrote: If it can be "cracked" easily, then OpenRAW has no point. It's the other way around logic-boy. Ok, then, "OpenRAW has no point if the file formats can be cracked easily". You admit the file formats can be cracked easily, therefore ... Since it is all but impossible to encrypt the data in the first place, there is no need to do so. Or I suppose the OEM's could begin keying the encryption on a case by case basis. Yeah, uh huh. Oh sheesh. It's not like you decide one day "I hate those Mazda *******s" and change car brands. Replacing a lens collection is not trivial. Nikon have a lot of loyal customers who are now having part of their own images encrypted and requiring Nikon authorized s/w to read it. Nikon can also change their lens mount. What are you going to do, sue them? After OpenRAW has passed their legislation mandating The File Format, is the next step to mandate interoperable optics? A good point that misses the point. Nikon have made big marketing hooey over backward comaptible lens mounts. So in revenge they're making part of their files unreadable? Yeah, okay. People will buy that. Sure. The point is to stop these idiotic and pointless 'races' in the future. Again, who is forcing you to participate in these "races"? Nikon. By encrypting part of MY image without my consent. You consented to it by pressing the shutter button. Nobody considers this when they maintain Nikon lens collections or purcahse a Nikon camera. Or other OEM's for that matter. End of thread for me. Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. |
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