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#1
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scanning textured photo?
I have some old b/w photos with textured surface like a fine grit sand
paper. When I scanned these photos with a flatbed scanner (epson 4870), the textured surface shows up as specks of light and dark spots, almost like a digital photo taken in high ISO. I can reduce this effect somewhat with photoshop and noise reduction software, but they never completely go away. I'm thinking if the scanner's internal light source is more diffused instead of a bright "line" light, the textured surface would not be as prominent. Does this kind of scanner exist? How do professional scanning service deal with this problem? |
#2
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scanning textured photo?
On Jul 11, 9:50 pm, "peter" wrote:
I have some old b/w photos with textured surface like a fine grit sand paper. When I scanned these photos with a flatbed scanner (epson 4870), the textured surface shows up as specks of light and dark spots, almost like a digital photo taken in high ISO. I can reduce this effect somewhat with photoshop and noise reduction software, but they never completely go away. I'm thinking if the scanner's internal light source is more diffused instead of a bright "line" light, the textured surface would not be as prominent. Does this kind of scanner exist? How do professional scanning service deal with this problem? Professionally, you would scan then with a wet-scanner and the problem disappears. They aren't too expensive but not something most people have laying around. I guess it depends on how important the scan is. |
#3
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scanning textured photo?
"Pat" wrote in message oups.com... On Jul 11, 9:50 pm, "peter" wrote: I have some old b/w photos with textured surface like a fine grit sand paper. When I scanned these photos with a flatbed scanner (epson 4870), the textured surface shows up as specks of light and dark spots, almost like a digital photo taken in high ISO. I can reduce this effect somewhat with photoshop and noise reduction software, but they never completely go away. I'm thinking if the scanner's internal light source is more diffused instead of a bright "line" light, the textured surface would not be as prominent. Does this kind of scanner exist? How do professional scanning service deal with this problem? Professionally, you would scan then with a wet-scanner and the problem disappears. They aren't too expensive but not something most people have laying around. I guess it depends on how important the scan is. An idea off the top of my head. I haven't tried it but this might work.So try it out with a photo you don't worry too much about. (Always a good idea when experimenting.) Get a shallow pan large enough to hold a sheet of optical glass larger than the photo in question. Fill the pan with water. Place the glass in the water. Slide the photo into the water face down. Slide it in slow and gentle so that it won't collect bubbles under the photo. Position the photo face down on the glass, under the water. Gently lift the glass out of the water so the photo remains face down on the glass with a film of water between the glass and the photo paper (which fills in the irregularities inthe paper surface. While it is still wet place the whole thing face down on a flat bed scanner and scan. Possible reasons for failure. If air bubbles form between the paper and the glass (possibly coming out of the paper itself) it will cause bad spots in the scan. In this case you would probably want to add a "wetting agent" to the water and let the paper soak face up, while the paper and water are gently agitated to cause all the air to be removed before reversing the paper and applying it to the glass. Also if the glass is too thick the scanner may have a problem focusing on the image surface. Scanners assume that the surface to be scanned is closest to the surface of the scanner glass. About the only solution is to modify the flat bed scanner to allow the glass in the scanner to be removable and use this as the glass to apply the wet photo paper to, and then being careful to dry the bottom of the glass so there will be no drip distortions added to the scanned image (and reduces the possibility of water getting into the inside of the scanner). One more reason to think about this before trying. When you have finished the scan you need to be careful about how you dry the paper photo. If it dries in contact with a surface the textured surface of the paper may be soft enough to deform and create distracting variations in the texture. Which is another reason to experiment on a less important photo first. Just some untried ideas off the top of my head. Randy ========== Randy Berbaum Champaign, IL |
#4
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scanning textured photo?
[re removing light and dark specks due to textured paper]
I would recommend against soaking old prints. There are simply too many ways that this might damage them. Here are some non-destructive ideas that may be helpful. 1) scan the prints multiple times at different rotations, then restore them to their original orientation, and re-combine them as layers in Photoshop or Elements, with the layer mode set to darken or lighten to remove the lighter or darker dots, whichever is worse. Use Dust and Scratches to remove any remaining dots. 2) photograph the prints using a low angled light source to avoid surface reflections. Or a polarized filter over the lens to minimize surface reflections. Polarizers over the light sources will remove even more of the dots. 3) combine methods 1 and 2 by photographing with the light in different positions, then combine as layers in lighten or darken mode. -- Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com |
#5
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scanning textured photo?
On Jul 11, 9:50 pm, "peter" wrote:
I have some old b/w photos with textured surface like a fine grit sand paper. When I scanned these photos with a flatbed scanner (epson 4870), the textured surface shows up as specks of light and dark spots, almost like a digital photo taken in high ISO. I can reduce this effect somewhat with photoshop and noise reduction software, but they never completely go away. I'm thinking if the scanner's internal light source is more diffused instead of a bright "line" light, the textured surface would not be as prominent. Does this kind of scanner exist? How do professional scanning service deal with this problem? Turn on the descreening function of the scanning software, you need it set for coarse (newsprint). This will soften the image somewhat but generally takes away the texture. Play with is the less coarse the descreen the less softening. Most pro labs will tell you it is not worth the price they are charging to do this. Wet scanning is almost as expensive as drum scanning. Tom |
#6
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scanning textured photo?
On Jul 12, 3:13 am, "Mike Russell" -
MOVE wrote: [re removing light and dark specks due to textured paper] I would recommend against soaking old prints. There are simply too many ways that this might damage them. Here are some non-destructive ideas that may be helpful. 1) scan the prints multiple times at different rotations, then restore them to their original orientation, and re-combine them as layers in Photoshop or Elements, with the layer mode set to darken or lighten to remove the lighter or darker dots, whichever is worse. Use Dust and Scratches to remove any remaining dots. 2) photograph the prints using a low angled light source to avoid surface reflections. Or a polarized filter over the lens to minimize surface reflections. Polarizers over the light sources will remove even more of the dots. 3) combine methods 1 and 2 by photographing with the light in different positions, then combine as layers in lighten or darken mode. -- Mike Russell -www.curvemeister.com If you send it out to someone with a wet scanner, they will know how to handle the photo in a non-destructive manner (I hope). Wet scanning a very effective. |
#7
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scanning textured photo?
"Pat" wrote in message
ups.com... [re wet scanning] If you send it out to someone with a wet scanner, they will know how to handle the photo in a non-destructive manner (I hope). Wet scanning a very effective. Yes, hopefully. I've done it myself, most recently on a tintype that had incredible amounts of detail, but with the surface so roughened with time that very little it was visible. The result was stunning - a tiny 1x1 inch image that could be blown up to a serviceable 5x7. In this case, I use pure grain alcohol that evaporated in a matter of seconds, to minimize any chance of rusting the iron substrate under the emulsion. But in dealing with old photographs, I think we have a duty of preservation, and not simply reproduction. For paper prints, there are any number of dangers that can happen when water, alcohol, or oil are used for scanning an image. For a print, there are the additional problems related to the paper itself: drying the print, migration of material in the paper, and restoring it's original appearance. 1) the emulsion itself may physically peel away from the paper, destroying the print 2) if the image was incompletely washed or fixed, portions of the emulsion may be soluble in water 3) iron impurities and other undesirable chemicals in the emulsion may migrate when wet, causing later changes in the image appearance. 4) markings on the back of the image may soak through. 5) the surface sheen of the emulsion may change 6) if a print dryer is used to restore the original convex shape of the print, the softened emulsion may crack while drying, and/or stick and come off All of the above problems may show up immediately, or may take years to happen. If you are lucky, and none of the above are a problem, you will be faced with the problem that after drying the paper will curl toward the emulsion side - even with proper drying technique, there is no guarantee of restoring the print to its original appearance. These are obviously important prints, or we would not be taking this amount of trouble to scan them. Even if you get a good scanned image, for many of us damaging the original is too high a price to pay, particularly when there are non-destructive alternatives that can be tried first. Furthermore, scanner technology may improve in the future. For example, imagine a version of Digital ICE for print scanners that removes surface texture. Using such a device, it might be possible for someone a few years from now to get a batter scan than is possible today even with soaking. This makes it even more important not to damage or otherwise modify the originals. Archaeologists are aware of this, and often leave sections of a site untouched, anticipating future improvements in technology and technique. We should do likewise with our photographic prints and negatives. BTW - for more material on scanning old images, and potential problems such as those mentioned above, I recommend my friend Ctein's "Digital Restoration From Start to Finish". -- Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com |
#8
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scanning textured photo?
peter wrote:
I have some old b/w photos with textured surface like a fine grit sand paper. When I scanned these photos with a flatbed scanner (epson 4870), the textured surface shows up as specks of light and dark spots, almost like a digital photo taken in high ISO. I can reduce this effect somewhat with photoshop and noise reduction software, but they never completely go away. I'm thinking if the scanner's internal light source is more diffused instead of a bright "line" light, the textured surface would not be as prominent. Does this kind of scanner exist? How do professional scanning service deal with this problem? Processing the scanned image with Neat Image or Noise Ninja can eliminate better than 90% of the grainy effect, providing the image contains a large enough area of a single tone from which to take a sample of the texture. Colin D. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#9
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scanning textured photo?
In article kNfli.4797$CJ4.4642@trndny08, "peter"
wrote: I have some old b/w photos with textured surface like a fine grit sand paper. When I scanned these photos with a flatbed scanner (epson 4870), the textured surface shows up as specks of light and dark spots, almost like a digital photo taken in high ISO. I can reduce this effect somewhat with photoshop and noise reduction software, but they never completely go away. Take a look at: http://tinyurl.com/2cayna If this is what you want to do you'll need an FFT plug-in. One is offered in the footnotes. You'll need WinRAR to unpack it but a link to that utility software is given in the footnotes as well. You'll find another RGB version of a FFT/IFFT plug-in for PS at: http://tinyurl.com/yr35d9 If you're a Mac user, you might want to consider "ImageJ 1.38". "It is Not a plugin but a complete program" and "runs on Linux, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X and Windows". It's free. Here's the complete message that Ken [Cameraken] posted on the RetouchPRO forums website where the topic was "Photo film texture removal advice." (entire thread: http://tinyurl.com/255qg4): Hi Wils There IS a mac version. Its called ImageJ Image J is part of The Image Processing Toolkit Available Here for Free http://tinyurl.com/2dhjx5 ImageJ runs on Linux, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X and Windows The Docs are here http://tinyurl.com/yrgror And the bit about FFT is here http://tinyurl.com/2edbzx It is Not a plugin but a complete program. You will need Java Installed. Ken If you just want to see what you can do using just what you have at home, this sample chapter from Katrin Eismann's excellent book, "Photoshop Restoration and Retouching" should be of interest: http://tinyurl.com/36h95z Don't forget to click on the "Figure 5.XX" to see in detail what is being discussed. Hope one of these suggestions fills the bill. ron (who simply brought up Google and typed in "paper texture removal") |
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