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#1
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Odd time stamp behavior -- NTFS v FAT?
I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200.
I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card (formatted FAT?). Perhaps someone can shed some light. While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so. I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to. When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out. Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7). I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7). Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT. With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT. With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and (c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself. With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in all three locations, just as above. I disconnected the USB cable. Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT. With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour. I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk. Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder still showed 19:10. This was puzzling. I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05. I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and 5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart. Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what? Thanks This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is critical at upload time as well. -- Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom Running Win2K SR-1 For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com |
#2
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On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:06 -0700, Top Spin
wrote: This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is critical at upload time as well. I think you are over-complicating things. Just ensure that your Camera is set to the correct Date/Time (GMT), and use the image EXIF data for the Date/Time reference. As far as I'm concerned, generally speaking, the time at which an image file was copied, moved, or created to a hard drive is irrelevant. -Astro |
#3
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On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:06 -0700, Top Spin
wrote: This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is critical at upload time as well. I think you are over-complicating things. Just ensure that your Camera is set to the correct Date/Time (GMT), and use the image EXIF data for the Date/Time reference. As far as I'm concerned, generally speaking, the time at which an image file was copied, moved, or created to a hard drive is irrelevant. -Astro |
#4
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Top Spin wrote:
I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200. I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card (formatted FAT?). Perhaps someone can shed some light. While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so. I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to. When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out. Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7). I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7). Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT. With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT. With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and (c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself. With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in all three locations, just as above. I disconnected the USB cable. Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT. With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour. I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk. Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder still showed 19:10. This was puzzling. I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05. I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and 5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart. Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what? Thanks This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is critical at upload time as well. -- Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom Running Win2K SR-1 For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com Yes, the NTFS file system is totally different kettle of fish from FAT. NTFS has a thing called 'rights management' - FAT does not. Relevant date/time info for files is quite different between the two. Google is your friend. -- jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' |
#5
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Top Spin wrote:
I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200. I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card (formatted FAT?). Perhaps someone can shed some light. While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so. I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to. When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out. Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7). I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7). Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT. With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT. With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and (c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself. With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in all three locations, just as above. I disconnected the USB cable. Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT. With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour. I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk. Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder still showed 19:10. This was puzzling. I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05. I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and 5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart. Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what? Thanks This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is critical at upload time as well. -- Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom Running Win2K SR-1 For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com Yes, the NTFS file system is totally different kettle of fish from FAT. NTFS has a thing called 'rights management' - FAT does not. Relevant date/time info for files is quite different between the two. Google is your friend. -- jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' |
#6
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Top Spin wrote:
I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200. I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card (formatted FAT?). Perhaps someone can shed some light. While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so. I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to. When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out. Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7). I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7). Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT. With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT. With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and (c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself. With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in all three locations, just as above. I disconnected the USB cable. Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT. With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour. I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk. Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder still showed 19:10. This was puzzling. I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05. I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and 5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart. Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what? Thanks This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is critical at upload time as well. -- Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom Running Win2K SR-1 For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com If your camera writes EXIF data, then the date and time the picture were taken, according to the camera, can be extracted by some software. I suggest you keep the camera set for your local time, and note any time zone changes in notes during your travels, if this is important to you. You can always sort the pictures by the sequential number (also stored in EXIF). This will allow you to correctly sequence the pictures even if you change the time in the camera to reflect local time.. Most programs just put the time you load the pictures to the PC on the file. |
#7
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Top Spin wrote:
[] Perhaps someone can shed some light. FAT stores the time as "clock" time - what is stored is what is displayed by Windows NTFS (and CDFS) store the time as UTC, so that when the time is displayed by Windows it has to be converted from UTC to local clock time. Your Control Panel, Date & Time, Time zone settings determine how this conversion is done. So with NTFS, the file time as displayed by Windows will be different between summer and winter (assuming you live in a region where the clocks move between summer and winter). Programs like Picture Information Extractor http://www.picmeta.com/ can stamp the files according to the EXIF information contained therein, and even rename the files. My wife and I use two different ways of working - I keep my camera time in UTC - she keeps hers in local time. Cheers, David |
#8
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Top Spin wrote:
[] Perhaps someone can shed some light. FAT stores the time as "clock" time - what is stored is what is displayed by Windows NTFS (and CDFS) store the time as UTC, so that when the time is displayed by Windows it has to be converted from UTC to local clock time. Your Control Panel, Date & Time, Time zone settings determine how this conversion is done. So with NTFS, the file time as displayed by Windows will be different between summer and winter (assuming you live in a region where the clocks move between summer and winter). Programs like Picture Information Extractor http://www.picmeta.com/ can stamp the files according to the EXIF information contained therein, and even rename the files. My wife and I use two different ways of working - I keep my camera time in UTC - she keeps hers in local time. Cheers, David |
#9
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Ron
Most programs just put the time you load the pictures to the PC on the file. This was probably the one single feature of existing photo software which annoyed me sufficiently into creating my own package. It may be a bit "noddy" in other respects but if you use my PhotoMan application (http://homepages.tesco.net/~Keith.Sh...toman/home.htm) and ensure that the "sort chronologically" option is set, then when you view the contents of a folder, or display a slideshow, the photos will be displayed strictly in EXIF date/time order irrespective of file name or file date. Keith |
#10
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Ron
Most programs just put the time you load the pictures to the PC on the file. This was probably the one single feature of existing photo software which annoyed me sufficiently into creating my own package. It may be a bit "noddy" in other respects but if you use my PhotoMan application (http://homepages.tesco.net/~Keith.Sh...toman/home.htm) and ensure that the "sort chronologically" option is set, then when you view the contents of a folder, or display a slideshow, the photos will be displayed strictly in EXIF date/time order irrespective of file name or file date. Keith |
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