A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Digital Photography » Digital Photography
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Odd time stamp behavior -- NTFS v FAT?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 30th 04, 03:13 AM
Top Spin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Odd time stamp behavior -- NTFS v FAT?

I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200.

I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time
zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock
time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on
the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card
(formatted FAT?).

Perhaps someone can shed some light.

While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so.
I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful
about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to.

When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files
to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken
in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time
stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos
sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out.

Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in
PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7).

I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7).

Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT.

With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT.
With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the
PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the
F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder
showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and
(c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself.

With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard
disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in
all three locations, just as above.

I disconnected the USB cable.

Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT.

With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set
the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on
the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour.

I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk.
Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder
still showed 19:10. This was puzzling.

I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it
showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05.

I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all
of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but
the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and
5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart.

Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what?

Thanks

This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to
getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is
critical at upload time as well.

--
Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom
Running Win2K SR-1
For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com
  #2  
Old September 30th 04, 04:33 AM
AstroPax
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:06 -0700, Top Spin
wrote:

This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to
getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is
critical at upload time as well.


I think you are over-complicating things.

Just ensure that your Camera is set to the correct Date/Time (GMT),
and use the image EXIF data for the Date/Time reference.

As far as I'm concerned, generally speaking, the time at which an
image file was copied, moved, or created to a hard drive is
irrelevant.

-Astro

  #3  
Old September 30th 04, 04:33 AM
AstroPax
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:06 -0700, Top Spin
wrote:

This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to
getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is
critical at upload time as well.


I think you are over-complicating things.

Just ensure that your Camera is set to the correct Date/Time (GMT),
and use the image EXIF data for the Date/Time reference.

As far as I'm concerned, generally speaking, the time at which an
image file was copied, moved, or created to a hard drive is
irrelevant.

-Astro

  #4  
Old September 30th 04, 05:01 AM
Jer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Top Spin wrote:

I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200.

I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time
zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock
time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on
the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card
(formatted FAT?).

Perhaps someone can shed some light.

While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so.
I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful
about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to.

When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files
to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken
in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time
stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos
sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out.

Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in
PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7).

I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7).

Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT.

With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT.
With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the
PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the
F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder
showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and
(c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself.

With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard
disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in
all three locations, just as above.

I disconnected the USB cable.

Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT.

With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set
the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on
the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour.

I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk.
Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder
still showed 19:10. This was puzzling.

I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it
showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05.

I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all
of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but
the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and
5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart.

Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what?

Thanks

This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to
getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is
critical at upload time as well.

--
Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom
Running Win2K SR-1
For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com



Yes, the NTFS file system is totally different kettle of fish from FAT.

NTFS has a thing called 'rights management' - FAT does not. Relevant
date/time info for files is quite different between the two. Google is
your friend.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
  #5  
Old September 30th 04, 05:01 AM
Jer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Top Spin wrote:

I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200.

I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time
zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock
time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on
the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card
(formatted FAT?).

Perhaps someone can shed some light.

While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so.
I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful
about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to.

When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files
to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken
in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time
stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos
sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out.

Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in
PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7).

I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7).

Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT.

With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT.
With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the
PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the
F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder
showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and
(c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself.

With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard
disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in
all three locations, just as above.

I disconnected the USB cable.

Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT.

With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set
the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on
the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour.

I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk.
Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder
still showed 19:10. This was puzzling.

I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it
showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05.

I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all
of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but
the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and
5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart.

Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what?

Thanks

This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to
getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is
critical at upload time as well.

--
Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom
Running Win2K SR-1
For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com



Yes, the NTFS file system is totally different kettle of fish from FAT.

NTFS has a thing called 'rights management' - FAT does not. Relevant
date/time info for files is quite different between the two. Google is
your friend.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
  #6  
Old September 30th 04, 09:15 AM
Ron Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Top Spin wrote:
I just returned from trip with my brand new Nikon Coolpix 4200.

I just discovered some odd behavior involving time stamps and time
zones which I don't understand. It appears that changing the PC clock
time zone setting (Windows 2000) has a different effect on files on
the PC hard disk (formatted NTFS) than on the Coolpix memory card
(formatted FAT?).

Perhaps someone can shed some light.

While on the trip, I uploaded the photos to my laptop every day or so.
I was in a different time zone from my home and I was not careful
about what time zone either the PC or the camera were set to.

When I returned, I decided that I would like to rename the photo files
to something containing the time stamp at which each photo was taken
in the local time zone. Because of my carelessness, the file time
stamps are all messed up. Fortunately, the camera numbers the photos
sequentially. After some work, I think I got them all sorted out.

Then I decided to do some testing to see what went wrong. I live in
PDT (GMT-8). I simulated taking photos in MDT (GMT-7).

I set both the camera clock and the PC clock to 19:00 MDT (GMT-7).

Test #1 -- Camera and PC both in MDT.

With the camera time zone set to MDT, I took photo #1 at 19:05 MDT.
With the PC time zone also set to MDT, I connected the camera to the
PC using the USB cable. The camera's memory card appeared as the
F-disk. The photo file time stamp of the file in the camera folder
showed 19:05 (a) in Windows explorer, (b) in the Properties panel, and
(c) in the time stamp imprinted on the photo itself.

With the PC also set to MDT, I copied the photo #1 file to the PC hard
disk. On the PC hard disk, the photo file time stamp showed 19:05 in
all three locations, just as above.

I disconnected the USB cable.

Test #2 -- Camera in MDT, PC in PDT.

With the camera still set to MDT, I took photo #2 at 19:10 MDT. I set
the PC clock to PDT (GMT-8). This set the time to 18:10. Photo #1 on
the PC hard disk now showed a time stamp of 18:05 -- adjusted 1 hour.

I reconnected the USB cable. The camera again appeared as the F-disk.
Oddly, the photo file time stamp for photo #1 in the camera folder
still showed 19:10. This was puzzling.

I copied photo #2 as above. When it arrived on the PC hard disk, it
showed a time stamp of 19:10, but photo #1 still showed 18:05.

I then changed the PC time zone a few times. The time stamps for all
of the files both on the PC and on the camera changed accordingly, but
the two versions on the PC continued top have a time stamp an hour and
5 minutes apart even though they were taken only 5 minutes apart.

Is this because of FAT vs NTFS or what?

Thanks

This says to me that the camera time zone setting is critical to
getting the time stamps accurate and the PC time stamp setting is
critical at upload time as well.

--
Using an Olympus C-700 Ultra Zoom
Running Win2K SR-1
For email, use Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com


If your camera writes EXIF data, then the date and time the picture were
taken, according to the camera, can be extracted by some software. I
suggest you keep the camera set for your local time, and note any time
zone changes in notes during your travels, if this is important to you.
You can always sort the pictures by the sequential number (also stored
in EXIF). This will allow you to correctly sequence the pictures even
if you change the time in the camera to reflect local time..

Most programs just put the time you load the pictures to the PC on the file.
  #7  
Old September 30th 04, 09:52 AM
David J Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Top Spin wrote:
[]
Perhaps someone can shed some light.


FAT stores the time as "clock" time - what is stored is what is displayed
by Windows

NTFS (and CDFS) store the time as UTC, so that when the time is displayed
by Windows it has to be converted from UTC to local clock time. Your
Control Panel, Date & Time, Time zone settings determine how this
conversion is done.

So with NTFS, the file time as displayed by Windows will be different
between summer and winter (assuming you live in a region where the clocks
move between summer and winter).

Programs like Picture Information Extractor http://www.picmeta.com/ can
stamp the files according to the EXIF information contained therein, and
even rename the files.

My wife and I use two different ways of working - I keep my camera time in
UTC - she keeps hers in local time.

Cheers,
David



  #8  
Old September 30th 04, 09:52 AM
David J Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Top Spin wrote:
[]
Perhaps someone can shed some light.


FAT stores the time as "clock" time - what is stored is what is displayed
by Windows

NTFS (and CDFS) store the time as UTC, so that when the time is displayed
by Windows it has to be converted from UTC to local clock time. Your
Control Panel, Date & Time, Time zone settings determine how this
conversion is done.

So with NTFS, the file time as displayed by Windows will be different
between summer and winter (assuming you live in a region where the clocks
move between summer and winter).

Programs like Picture Information Extractor http://www.picmeta.com/ can
stamp the files according to the EXIF information contained therein, and
even rename the files.

My wife and I use two different ways of working - I keep my camera time in
UTC - she keeps hers in local time.

Cheers,
David



  #9  
Old September 30th 04, 10:44 AM
Keith Sheppard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ron
Most programs just put the time you load the pictures to the PC on the

file.

This was probably the one single feature of existing photo software which
annoyed me sufficiently into creating my own package.

It may be a bit "noddy" in other respects but if you use my PhotoMan
application (http://homepages.tesco.net/~Keith.Sh...toman/home.htm)
and ensure that the "sort chronologically" option is set, then when you view
the contents of a folder, or display a slideshow, the photos will be
displayed strictly in EXIF date/time order irrespective of file name or file
date.

Keith


  #10  
Old September 30th 04, 10:44 AM
Keith Sheppard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ron
Most programs just put the time you load the pictures to the PC on the

file.

This was probably the one single feature of existing photo software which
annoyed me sufficiently into creating my own package.

It may be a bit "noddy" in other respects but if you use my PhotoMan
application (http://homepages.tesco.net/~Keith.Sh...toman/home.htm)
and ensure that the "sort chronologically" option is set, then when you view
the contents of a folder, or display a slideshow, the photos will be
displayed strictly in EXIF date/time order irrespective of file name or file
date.

Keith


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Windows XP utility for setting file date / time to when-taken in EXIF data? Dilip Barman Digital Photography 9 August 13th 04 06:49 PM
What densities at which zones? ~BitPump Large Format Photography Equipment 24 August 13th 04 04:15 AM
Can Windows file time stamp be changed to shooting time? Jerry Digital Photography 9 July 31st 04 11:11 PM
Develper for Delta-100 Frank Pittel In The Darkroom 8 March 1st 04 05:36 PM
Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller? Phil Glaser In The Darkroom 14 January 26th 04 11:04 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.