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Shelf life for Hypo Clearing Agent?
Greetings, B&W Dinosaurs;
Last night, developing some Ilford HP5 rolls, I mixed some new working solution of Hypo Clearing Agent. The stock solution--stored in a cool, dark darkroom--had been mixed about a year ago, and smelled VERY strongly of ammonia. How come? Any ideas on the recommended shelf life of this stuff? Yes, I mixed a fresh batch, but can anyone explain the strong odor? What are the decomposition products of clearing agent? Rich Knoppow? BTW, it is GREAT to see so many diehards still fussing with black and white. SILVER HALIDES FOREVER!! Dick Behan Lopez Island, WA |
#2
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Shelf life for Hypo Clearing Agent?
"R.W. Behan" wrote in message news Greetings, B&W Dinosaurs; Last night, developing some Ilford HP5 rolls, I mixed some new working solution of Hypo Clearing Agent. The stock solution--stored in a cool, dark darkroom--had been mixed about a year ago, and smelled VERY strongly of ammonia. How come? Any ideas on the recommended shelf life of this stuff? Yes, I mixed a fresh batch, but can anyone explain the strong odor? What are the decomposition products of clearing agent? Rich Knoppow? BTW, it is GREAT to see so many diehards still fussing with black and white. SILVER HALIDES FOREVER!! Dick Behan Lopez Island, WA Kodak give the shelf life in a filled, sealed, bottle as three months. Its not long lived because the sulfite, which is the key ingredient, oxidizes to sulfate with exposure to the air. Sulfate does not harm but is far less effective as a wash aid than sulfite. I am puzzled by the ammonia odor. My guess is that this is not Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent but something else. There is no ammonia in the Kodak or Ilford products but there may be other products based on the old Kodak Hypo Eliminator. This is a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and ammonia. It should be avoided for various reasons because the sulfite wash aids work better. If this is what you have it may have a very short shelf life. Kodak gives the life of their mix-it-yourself formula in hours. I recommend the Kodak product because it has the right ratio of sulfite to bisulfite and has two sequestering agents to deal with residue from hardener, where its used, and with minerals in the water. Ilford's wash aid is a sulfite wash aid but I have only the information in the MSDS and can't be sure its buffered. According to the Kodak research paper and patents the buffering is important. Another thought, is is possible this was rapid fixer and not wash aid? That would certainly account for the ammonia odor. If you mixed Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner in the wash aid it could also account for the odor. The toner is mostly ammonium thiosulfate but there wouldn't be much in the wash aid. -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
#3
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Shelf life for Hypo Clearing Agent?
For Richard K.....
Awhile back, I was trying to locate my old, original source for the HCA that I've been using..... The label on my bottles had the formula and I had come to just remix batches from that and had lost the source. I'm suspicious that it was from something that you had once posted long ago. I'm usually careful about keeping sources attached to my formulas and hadn't done so on this. This is what I've been using. Sodium Sulfite 200g/L Sodium Bisulfite 40g/L Sodium Citrate 10g/L EDTA TSSalt 10g/L Dilute 1:9 for use. Did this come from you? Do you recognize it and its source? Just tying up loose ends here but I recall in testing that it was effective and has become my normal HCA for print duties. I've settled upon TF-4 fixer and no required HCA for film use but didn't want to rethink my sequencing and related issues for toning/fixing, etc for printing and continue to use this HCA. If not yours, do you have any opinions, especially in the Citrate and EDTA usefulness? Craig Schroeder craig nospam craigschroeder com |
#4
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Shelf life for Hypo Clearing Agent?
"Craig Schroeder" wrote in message ... For Richard K..... Awhile back, I was trying to locate my old, original source for the HCA that I've been using..... The label on my bottles had the formula and I had come to just remix batches from that and had lost the source. I'm suspicious that it was from something that you had once posted long ago. I'm usually careful about keeping sources attached to my formulas and hadn't done so on this. This is what I've been using. Sodium Sulfite 200g/L Sodium Bisulfite 40g/L Sodium Citrate 10g/L EDTA TSSalt 10g/L Dilute 1:9 for use. Did this come from you? Do you recognize it and its source? Just tying up loose ends here but I recall in testing that it was effective and has become my normal HCA for print duties. I've settled upon TF-4 fixer and no required HCA for film use but didn't want to rethink my sequencing and related issues for toning/fixing, etc for printing and continue to use this HCA. If not yours, do you have any opinions, especially in the Citrate and EDTA usefulness? Craig Schroeder craig nospam craigschroeder com It didn't come from me. Its double the strength of the packaged stuff but the ratios are about right. The formula in the patent dosen't have the sodium citrate in it although it mentioned in the list of suitable sequestering agents. No formula is given in the research paper. I have to do some digging to get you the citations. -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
#5
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Shelf life for Hypo Clearing Agent?
Richard--
Thanks a million. I'm not sure the odor was ammonia, but it was strong and acrid, perhaps more like fresh "hypo." In any case, it was Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, and your explanation of what took place is more than adequate for my curiosity. Thanks again. You, sir, are a marvel of photographic knowledge. Cheers, Dick B. "R.W. Behan" wrote in message news Greetings, B&W Dinosaurs; Last night, developing some Ilford HP5 rolls, I mixed some new working solution of Hypo Clearing Agent. The stock solution--stored in a cool, dark darkroom--had been mixed about a year ago, and smelled VERY strongly of ammonia. How come? Any ideas on the recommended shelf life of this stuff? Yes, I mixed a fresh batch, but can anyone explain the strong odor? What are the decomposition products of clearing agent? Rich Knoppow? BTW, it is GREAT to see so many diehards still fussing with black and white. SILVER HALIDES FOREVER!! Dick Behan Lopez Island, WA |
#6
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Shelf life for Hypo Clearing Agent?
Sodium Sulfite 200g/L
Sodium Bisulfite 40g/L Sodium Citrate 10g/L EDTA TSSalt 10g/L Dilute 1:9 for use. This looks familiar ... I mix mine up double-strength also. I got my formula from Richard and doubled the concentrations so as to use a 1:9 dilution rather than a 1:5 to get to working strength. I find 1 gallon jugs a PITA to pour small amounts from. I make the S. Citrate from Citric Acid and S. Bicarbonate. In measuring spoons: 0.5 tsp Citric Acid 1.0 tsp S. Bicarbonate Small amount of water, let fizz 2.0 l Water 1.0 tsp EDTA (will fizz a bit more) 6.0 tbl S. Sulfite 2.0 tbl S. Metabisulfite Serve 1:9 with a garni of freshly fixed prints. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com |
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