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Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL



 
 
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  #111  
Old November 9th 07, 09:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Rich
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Posts: 718
Default DSLR versus P&S

On Nov 9, 10:04 am, -hh wrote:
John Navas wrote:

With all due respect, you picked an easy target


And offered:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5259/p1030578nx3.jpg

Just curious: what do you think the night photo currently on my
homepage?

http://www.huntzinger.com/


It's a great shot, but at that XGA size, not much can be determined
about it.


  #112  
Old November 9th 07, 09:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
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Posts: 369
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

David J Taylor wrote:

I think you will find that all current DSLRs use phase detection
auto-focus, and all current compacts use contrast detection (albeit with
some aids to speed up the initial acquisition). If you have examples
where this is not true I would be interested to hear about them.


Well Panasonic has one model (L10) where it uses phase detection if
you're using the viewfinder, but contrast detection if you're using the LCD.

It's very rare to find this system as royalties need to be paid to the
patent holder. Casio (EX-P600), Canon (Pro1), Kodak (P880), Pansonic
(LC5) and Olympus (several) have had past models that had the hybrid
auto-focus system, but as far as I can tell none of the current models
from anyone other than Panasonic still have it (I could be wrong, but I
keep pretty current on what's available, especially features like this).

Maybe the marketing folks decided it was too complicated and/or too
expensive for the target market for these cameras, but it really did cut
down the auto-focus time considerably.
  #113  
Old November 9th 07, 10:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:59:10 -0800, SMS ??? ?
wrote in
:

(I could be wrong, but I
keep pretty current on what's available, especially features like this).


Now that is funny -- LOL!

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
  #114  
Old November 9th 07, 10:21 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:22:22 -0800, Rich wrote in
.com:

I fired a D40 at a car travelling 40kph and it only travelled about
10" between the time the camera button was pressed, focus was achieved
and shutter fired. Most P&Ss can't begin to match that. The lens was
a 18-70mm (higher end) kit lens.
400 ISO images are virtually noise free.


40 kph is 437 in/sec, so you're claiming 10/437 = 0.02 sec total time
for reaction, shutter press, and exposure. Color me VERY skeptical.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
  #115  
Old November 9th 07, 10:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Daniel Silevitch
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Posts: 380
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:59:10 -0800, SMS ???? ? wrote:
David J Taylor wrote:

I think you will find that all current DSLRs use phase detection
auto-focus, and all current compacts use contrast detection (albeit with
some aids to speed up the initial acquisition). If you have examples
where this is not true I would be interested to hear about them.


Well Panasonic has one model (L10) where it uses phase detection if
you're using the viewfinder, but contrast detection if you're using the LCD.

It's very rare to find this system as royalties need to be paid to the
patent holder. Casio (EX-P600), Canon (Pro1), Kodak (P880), Pansonic
(LC5) and Olympus (several) have had past models that had the hybrid
auto-focus system, but as far as I can tell none of the current models
from anyone other than Panasonic still have it (I could be wrong, but I
keep pretty current on what's available, especially features like this).


If memory serves, the upcoming Nikon DSLRs also have dual phase/contrast
AF capabilities.

-dms

  #116  
Old November 9th 07, 10:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_4_]
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Posts: 1,151
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

SMS ???. ? wrote:
[]
Well Panasonic has one model (L10) where it uses phase detection if
you're using the viewfinder, but contrast detection if you're using
the LCD.
It's very rare to find this system as royalties need to be paid to the
patent holder. Casio (EX-P600), Canon (Pro1), Kodak (P880), Pansonic
(LC5) and Olympus (several) have had past models that had the hybrid
auto-focus system, but as far as I can tell none of the current models
from anyone other than Panasonic still have it (I could be wrong, but
I keep pretty current on what's available, especially features like
this).
Maybe the marketing folks decided it was too complicated and/or too
expensive for the target market for these cameras, but it really did
cut down the auto-focus time considerably.


So do none of the other Live View DSLR models also offer auto-focus in
Live View? If it's Live View, doesn't it to have to be contrast
detection?

David


  #117  
Old November 9th 07, 10:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
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Posts: 369
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

Daniel Silevitch wrote:

If memory serves, the upcoming Nikon DSLRs also have dual phase/contrast
AF capabilities.


If it's a D-SLR with live preview then it probably has contrast AF
capability for when you're using live preview rather than the viewfinder.
  #118  
Old November 9th 07, 10:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
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Posts: 369
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

David J Taylor wrote:
SMS ???. ? wrote:
[]
Well Panasonic has one model (L10) where it uses phase detection if
you're using the viewfinder, but contrast detection if you're using
the LCD.
It's very rare to find this system as royalties need to be paid to the
patent holder. Casio (EX-P600), Canon (Pro1), Kodak (P880), Pansonic
(LC5) and Olympus (several) have had past models that had the hybrid
auto-focus system, but as far as I can tell none of the current models
from anyone other than Panasonic still have it (I could be wrong, but
I keep pretty current on what's available, especially features like
this).
Maybe the marketing folks decided it was too complicated and/or too
expensive for the target market for these cameras, but it really did
cut down the auto-focus time considerably.


So do none of the other Live View DSLR models also offer auto-focus in
Live View? If it's Live View, doesn't it to have to be contrast
detection?


I was only listing non-D-SLRs with hybrid auto-focus. Yes, of course
you're correct, the live view D-SLRs will also use contrast detection
when using live view.

Personally I wouldn't trade faster and better AF for live view, unless
the live view LCD was articulated, which I find to be extremely useful
on the G2. I didn't realize what a great feature it was until using
cameras without it.
  #119  
Old November 9th 07, 10:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_4_]
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Posts: 1,151
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL

SMS ???. ? wrote:
[]
I was only listing non-D-SLRs with hybrid auto-focus. Yes, of course
you're correct, the live view D-SLRs will also use contrast detection
when using live view.


Thanks for the clarification.

Personally I wouldn't trade faster and better AF for live view, unless
the live view LCD was articulated, which I find to be extremely useful
on the G2. I didn't realize what a great feature it was until using
cameras without it.


Yes, I regret that more cameras don't offer swivel LCDs.

Cheers,
David


  #120  
Old November 9th 07, 11:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
AAvK
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Posts: 243
Default Point & shoots, no improvement as long as sensors stay SMALL


"SMS ??? ?" wrote in message ...
Yes, it's true that the Fuji 6000fd is about the best P&S in terms of noise. If they could have added IS to the 6000fd, it would
have been awesome. There's a few issues with it, such as the continuous shooting rate (speed and limit), but comparing it to other
P&S models it's not all that bad.

It'll be interesting to see how the S8000fd fares in terms of noise, though the frame rate is even worse then the 6000fd.

There are so many trade-offs you have to make with a P&S. It seems that no one can make a P&S that can match the features of a
D-SLR, let alone the performance and image quality.




I do know one thing with the s8000fd, the CCD is a smaller one, adding higher
megapixel output, not as good that way.

AAvK

 




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