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#11
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SOAKING NEGS
"otzi" wrote in message u... "Lloyd Erlick" Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote in message ... On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:37:28 +0200, Andrew Price wrote: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:13:00 -0400, Lloyd Erlick Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote: I have adopted a policy of permitting nothing to touch the image areas of my photosensitive materials while they are wet. At the risk of repeating myself, I still think that the way you put it in that technical article on your web site: Drying Screens Get Out of Town If You Know What's Good for You, and Take Squeegee With You, Too! is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time! August 30, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, Thanks! (Repeat yorself all you like ...) regards, --le OK then. -- In lew of distilled water is filtered water OK? If so which of the following would be most useful? The charcoal in a plastic container that works fast. _ or the upbeat ceramic / charcoal device that's a lot slower _ or the more complex multi filtering layer hi tech wizzmo that I wonder is more geared to baffling consumers than giving you tasty water. -- Otzi |
#12
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SOAKING NEGS
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:45:33 +1000, "otzi"
wrote: hi tech wizzmo that I wonder is more geared to baffling consumers than giving you tasty water. August 31, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, Well, you've hit it on the head, I think. Frankly, I don't trust 'filtered' water. Too many questions about the filter, such as, when is it no longer working properly and letting stuff through?? I like the expression 'steam distilled'. I have a counter top water distilling machine in my kitchen. It boils and condenses the water and I've found it close enough to pure that I've never seen a water spot from it on my negs. regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: ________________________________ -- |
#13
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SOAKING NEGS
"Lloyd Erlick" Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote in message ... On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:45:33 +1000, "otzi" wrote: hi tech wizzmo that I wonder is more geared to baffling consumers than giving you tasty water. August 31, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, Well, you've hit it on the head, I think. Frankly, I don't trust 'filtered' water. Too many questions about the filter, such as, when is it no longer working properly and letting stuff through?? I like the expression 'steam distilled'. I have a counter top water distilling machine in my kitchen. It boils and condenses the water and I've found it close enough to pure that I've never seen a water spot from it on my negs. regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: ________________________________ -- Can you post a link or two re this device. I am not aware of anything similar in AU -- Otzi |
#14
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SOAKING NEGS
On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:41:54 +1000, "otzi"
wrote: .... a counter top water distilling machine in my kitchen. It boils and condenses the water and I've found it close enough to pure that I've never seen a water spot from it on my negs. regards, --le .... Can you post a link or two re this device. I am not aware of anything similar in AU -- Otzi September 4, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, I don't have links handy, but I remember using Google to search for home kitchen water distillers. There are many sellers, and several different machines. The most common machine is called by one seller the "Love Distiller". Hmp. But it's the one I have, and it's the cheapest. (Mine has a label that says "Ecowater Systems".) It's basically a cylinder that tapers slightly toward the top. The bottom has a stainless steel tank (inside, the outside is painted variously, white is cheapest) and a heater. The top (round) lifts off, and contains a fan and cooling tubes and fins. The outside of the top has open slots to admit air around the tubes. The product water comes out a short spout near the top. I've used one for over ten years (I'm now on my second machine; the first provided 6500 liters of product water). I calculate that the distilled water cost is around twenty cents a liter, including original cost of machine, electricity and municipal water. I prefer it to buying jugs of water at the store and lugging them home, then deploying the waste containers somehow. (The cost of electricity has increased quite dramatically over the last decade. The machine is rated at 470 watts, and seems to take a little under eight hours to distill a fill-up of four liters. I've measured the output, and it is 3.8 liters.) I think of it as a kilowatt-hour per liter of product water. None of the added-cost extras they try to sell are necessary. The special liquid to clean the interior tank is not needed (use vinegar, or nothing. I just swill and dump before filling. A plastic scrubber would be quite a luxury. The buildup inside tends to flake off as it builds up, so swilling gets rid of it. Avoid anything that might scratch the interior.) The flavor-enhancing filter is not needed for darkroom water, and if you want to polish the product water for flavor, use a common Brita filter. (I find I can taste the flavour of iron or steel if I drink the distilled water. No doubt this is from the machine's tank. After passing through a Brita, it's fine. Many people claim distilled water does not taste good; they describe it as flat. I find it tastes very nice after going through the Brita; a rest in the refrigerator is good, too. Pouring the water back and forth between two containers aerates it (I think dissolving oxygen in it improves flavour). Of course, the action of the distiller as it distills the water (i.e., as it boils and condenses it, and drips it drop by drop through the air into its container ....) aerates it quite thoroughly. Anyway, I like to use the water to drink plain, or for drinks of all sorts (sure wish I could drink coffee, I used to love distilled water for that). It's nice as seltzer, too. Some people claim distilled water is excessively able to dissolve substances, and so will rob the body of vitamins and minerals that are water soluble. I think this is a maybe-so, but I do not believe the reasonable alternative is to drink water out of Lake Ontario. Maybe eating food that contains vitamins and minerals ... along with the distilled water ... anyway, my teeth are in good shape and none of my internal organs has dissolved. I used to be five and a half feet tall, now I'm only three ten, so maybe I've made a mistake ... regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: ________________________________ -- |
#15
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SOAKING NEGS
Lloyd Erlick wrote (in part):
Frankly, I don't trust 'filtered' water. Too many questions about the filter, such as, when is it no longer working properly and letting stuff through?? Filtering water with a 5 micron filter is what I do for wash water. An activated charcoal filter may remove some dissolved gasses. No ordinary filter will remove dissolved salts, such as calcium carbonate. Perhaps an ion-exchange gizmo will replace some of the "harder" salts with softer ones (sodium salts), but if you are drying films with water droplets on them, this is not much better. I suppose a reverse osmosis filter would be suitable, but distilling the water is surely the best. I compromise and use filtered condensate from my dehumidifier for sensitive solutions, especially PhotoFlo for negatives. -- .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 16:55:01 up 1 day, 19:44, 3 users, load average: 4.28, 4.27, 4.21 |
#16
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SOAKING NEGS
In article Us0Lg.1383$I71.804@trnddc01,
Jean-David Beyer wrote: I compromise and use filtered condensate from my dehumidifier for sensitive solutions, especially PhotoFlo for negatives. & you don't worry that the condensate may contain algae or worse some sort fungus? -- Reality-Is finding that perfect picture and never looking back. www.gregblankphoto.com |
#17
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SOAKING NEGS
Greg "_" wrote:
In article Us0Lg.1383$I71.804@trnddc01, Jean-David Beyer wrote: I compromise and use filtered condensate from my dehumidifier for sensitive solutions, especially PhotoFlo for negatives. & you don't worry that the condensate may contain algae or worse some sort fungus? No, I do not worry. This does not mean you are wrong and that I know there are no algae or fungus. It is just that I filter the condensate and that should get rid of the big lumps. Also, in 30 years, I have never had a problem with that. -- .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 08:10:01 up 2 days, 10:59, 3 users, load average: 4.28, 4.17, 4.11 |
#18
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SOAKING NEGS
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:59:32 GMT, Jean-David
Beyer wrote: Filtering water with a 5 micron filter is what I do for wash water. .... I compromise and use filtered condensate from my dehumidifier for sensitive solutions, especially PhotoFlo for negatives. September 5, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, I'd say filtering wash water is going pretty far for your negatives! I have the luxury of municipal water treatment; we all know how pure and clean city water is, eh?? Shrewsbury Artesian probably tastes pretty good ... Dehumidifier water makes great solutions. I suppose it must have lots of dissolved gases, and I always had to filter out parts of insects, but it never left any water spots on my negs, and that's all I cared about. It must be cheaper than a distiller, too. Using dehumidifier water is making use of Mother Nature's Great Big Water Distiller ... regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: ________________________________ -- |
#19
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SOAKING NEGS
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:13:10 -0400, "Greg
\"_\"" wrote: In article Us0Lg.1383$I71.804@trnddc01, Jean-David Beyer wrote: I compromise and use filtered condensate from my dehumidifier for sensitive solutions, especially PhotoFlo for negatives. & you don't worry that the condensate may contain algae or worse some sort fungus? September 5, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, That's definitely a concern. However, the water contains relatively little nutrient matter, even for micro-organisms. (Filtering out insect parts is not a major activity. Actually, once the container is covered, no bugs get in. They don't provide much food for algae.) I've had five gallon containers of dehumidifier water last for years with no growth or smell. I was always too much the city boy to actually drink any, but a basic precaution like boiling it would eliminate the problem. I find the worst water for growing nasty stuff is old tap water. Stored tap water soon develops an evil smell. Concerns about algae and the like can be addressed by boiling, using a few drops of chlorine bleach (don't use right away for darkroom solutions ...) or a bit of swimming pool / humidifier disinfectant. regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: ________________________________ -- |
#20
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SOAKING NEGS
On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:15:16 GMT, Jean-David
Beyer wrote: Greg "_" wrote: In article Us0Lg.1383$I71.804@trnddc01, Jean-David Beyer wrote: I compromise and use filtered condensate from my dehumidifier for sensitive solutions, especially PhotoFlo for negatives. & you don't worry that the condensate may contain algae or worse some sort fungus? No, I do not worry. This does not mean you are wrong and that I know there are no algae or fungus. It is just that I filter the condensate and that should get rid of the big lumps. Also, in 30 years, I have never had a problem with that. September 5, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, But Greg's point may be that micro-organisms or spores are introduced into your photosensitive materials, to lie in wait for the great day of reproduction and feasting upon gelatin, leaving your tiny particles of silver unsupported ... However, conditions suitable for this type of degradation of stored photo materials are warm and moist. If negs are archived in too much warmth and moisture (humidity, that is) it doesn't much matter if the wash water had a few bacteria or spores. That might accelerate the process, but poor archive conditions will activate bugs passing by, irrespective of our wash water. regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: ________________________________ -- |
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