Why the Nikon F6?

"Woodard R. Springstube" writes:

Just what will happen when I put my 16 mm Nikkor fisheye on one
of those 1/1.5 sensor equipped digital bodies? I'll tell you.
I get the field of view of a 24 mm wide-angle lens with terrible
distortion. Those of us who have quite a bit invested in wide
and ultra-winde angle lenses take a real bath when we go
digital, unless we can get full-frame sensors. Admittedly,
quite a few folks don't play with wide angle, but some of us do.

Well, you can correct the distortion easily enough. But yes, it costs
some money to upgrade to the 10.5mm fisheye and the 12-24mm zoom. No
doubt about it, some costs on the wide end.

And a big win on the long end. And I can still put film in a body if
I decide I need the wide lenses working normally for a particular
project.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

David Dyer-Bennet wrote in
:

"Woodard R. Springstube"
writes:

Just what will happen when I put my 16 mm Nikkor fisheye
on one of those 1/1.5 sensor equipped digital bodies?
I'll tell you. I get the field of view of a 24 mm
wide-angle lens with terrible distortion. Those of us who
have quite a bit invested in wide and ultra-winde angle
lenses take a real bath when we go digital, unless we can
get full-frame sensors. Admittedly, quite a few folks
don't play with wide angle, but some of us do.

Well, you can correct the distortion easily enough. But
yes, it costs some money to upgrade to the 10.5mm fisheye
and the 12-24mm zoom. No doubt about it, some costs on the
wide end.

And a big win on the long end. And I can still put film in
a body if I decide I need the wide lenses working normally
for a particular project.

All of this sounds good, but photography is only one of a couple
of expensive hobbies. To be blunt, I cannot afford to dump any
more bucks into photography for a long time. If film is dead,
then I own a bunch of expensive doorstops. Of course, I will
accept the death of film when I can't buy it or get it processed
any more. I think that most of the "Film is dead" type of posts
are either digit head fanatics who can't imagine *anybody* would
ever have a different opinion than theirs or just plain old
trolls.

"Woodard R. Springstube" wrote in message
2...
David Dyer-Bennet wrote in
:

"Woodard R. Springstube"
writes:

Just what will happen when I put my 16 mm Nikkor fisheye
on one of those 1/1.5 sensor equipped digital bodies?
I'll tell you. I get the field of view of a 24 mm
wide-angle lens with terrible distortion. Those of us who
have quite a bit invested in wide and ultra-winde angle
lenses take a real bath when we go digital, unless we can
get full-frame sensors. Admittedly, quite a few folks
don't play with wide angle, but some of us do.

Well, you can correct the distortion easily enough. But
yes, it costs some money to upgrade to the 10.5mm fisheye
and the 12-24mm zoom. No doubt about it, some costs on the
wide end.

And a big win on the long end. And I can still put film in
a body if I decide I need the wide lenses working normally
for a particular project.

All of this sounds good, but photography is only one of a couple
of expensive hobbies. To be blunt, I cannot afford to dump any
more bucks into photography for a long time. If film is dead,
then I own a bunch of expensive doorstops. Of course, I will
accept the death of film when I can't buy it or get it processed
any more. I think that most of the "Film is dead" type of posts
are either digit head fanatics who can't imagine *anybody* would
ever have a different opinion than theirs or just plain old
trolls.

You may wish to note that "John Llort's" last name spelled backwards is
"troll."

This guy does this from time to time just for a laugh...

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine management
systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If you really
think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to seperate them from
the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the earth for you
are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a highway once when I
heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks airbrake behind me.
Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck, but a lot of smoke coming
from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road puzzled about what the
problem could be, only to discover that one of my rear tyres had been
punctured. The cars handling in that situation was unchanged even with one
of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been in a lesser car...

There are organization that specialize in compiling these cold, hard
statistics.
One of them is a company that is sometimes criticized for their
recommendations.
But...Nobody criticizes their reliability statistics, because these are
not based on opinion...rather they are simple ratings based upon the
percentages of break-downs/failures reported by owners of each
manufacturer's vehicles. One such data collection is compiled by Consumer
Reports. I don't think they are experts on which car (or camera) one
would buy, but they are pretty good at the fairly simple 7th grade math
required to compile accurate statistical data on reliability. These
ratings are widely available. It's really rather silly to blab about it
here, but you seem awfully "irked" (as you called yourself...). So I'll
try to provide you with some data just to ease your pain.


Yes, we have the same sorts of organisations here in darkest Africa. BMW's
are renowned for their excellent reliability and have been consistently
ranked top of the pile in terms of after-sales service for many, many
years (and by a very long way, I might add).

big lecture on the rules of debating snipped

How come you don't do so well on this forum then?

--
Dallas www.dallasdahms.com

"You know you're right! You're bloody well right!
You've bloody got a right to say!" ~ Supertramp

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine management
systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If you really
think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to seperate them from
the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the earth for you
are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a highway once when I
heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks airbrake behind me.
Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck, but a lot of smoke coming
from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road puzzled about what the
problem could be, only to discover that one of my rear tyres had been
punctured. The cars handling in that situation was unchanged even with one
of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been in a lesser car...

There are organization that specialize in compiling these cold, hard
statistics.
One of them is a company that is sometimes criticized for their
recommendations.
But...Nobody criticizes their reliability statistics, because these are
not based on opinion...rather they are simple ratings based upon the
percentages of break-downs/failures reported by owners of each
manufacturer's vehicles. One such data collection is compiled by Consumer
Reports. I don't think they are experts on which car (or camera) one
would buy, but they are pretty good at the fairly simple 7th grade math
required to compile accurate statistical data on reliability. These
ratings are widely available. It's really rather silly to blab about it
here, but you seem awfully "irked" (as you called yourself...). So I'll
try to provide you with some data just to ease your pain.


Yes, we have the same sorts of organisations here in darkest Africa. BMW's
are renowned for their excellent reliability and have been consistently
ranked top of the pile in terms of after-sales service for many, many
years (and by a very long way, I might add).

big lecture on the rules of debating snipped

How come you don't do so well on this forum then?

--
Dallas www.dallasdahms.com

"You know you're right! You're bloody well right!
You've bloody got a right to say!" ~ Supertramp

"Dallas" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine management
systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If you really
think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to seperate them from
the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the earth for you
are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a highway once when I
heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks airbrake behind me.
Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck, but a lot of smoke coming
from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road puzzled about what the
problem could be, only to discover that one of my rear tyres had been
punctured. The cars handling in that situation was unchanged even with one
of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been in a lesser car...

That's all very nice.
I didn't know BMW was a tire manufacturer... Oops! They're not!
The funny thing is that you still don't seem to realize that none of the
above which you keep rambling about has ANYTHING to do with
reliability--which was the
one...and...only...comparative...aspect...I...brou ght...up...at...all (you
boob).

But just to keep you entertained and enlightened...
Modern Land Cruisers have...
Every single item you mention in that nice long list (although Toyota
doesn't actually manufacture run-flat tires...though BMW doesn't either, so
it doesn't count).


You REALLY REALLY need to do some comparative research before you shoot your
mouth off, Dallas. It is truly stunning how many times you've demonstrated
(including this last post of yours) that you simply don't know what you are
making comparisons with.
I'll spell it out for you.
The "Lowly" Toyota Land Cruiser comes with:
Electronic brake distribution? check
Anti-braking? check
Traction control? Check
Side impact air-bags? Check
Park-distance control? Yep...if you want it, it's there.
Compterized engine management? Check--part of Land Cruiser's Navigation
system.
Climate Control? Check
Heated Seats? Check
Locking Center and rear differential? Check (oops...BMW doesn't have that)
Full-time four wheel drive? Check
You want more?
Nah.
I'm getting bored.

The funny thing is... I don't care what BMW (or Toyotas, for that matter)
come equipped with, you silly man! I never delved into that at all.
Your obsessive/compulsive ways caused YOU to bring all that silly stuff into
this for GOD know why (???).

There are organization that specialize in compiling these cold, hard
statistics.
One of them is a company that is sometimes criticized for their
recommendations.
But...Nobody criticizes their reliability statistics, because these are
not based on opinion...rather they are simple ratings based upon the
percentages of break-downs/failures reported by owners of each
manufacturer's vehicles. One such data collection is compiled by
Consumer
Reports. I don't think they are experts on which car (or camera) one
would buy, but they are pretty good at the fairly simple 7th grade math
required to compile accurate statistical data on reliability. These
ratings are widely available. It's really rather silly to blab about it
here, but you seem awfully "irked" (as you called yourself...). So I'll
try to provide you with some data just to ease your pain.


Yes, we have the same sorts of organisations here in darkest Africa. BMW's
are renowned for their excellent reliability and have been consistently
ranked top of the pile in terms of after-sales service for many, many
years (and by a very long way, I might add).

big lecture on the rules of debating snipped

Uh...Dallas...
You ASKED me to explain, remember???


How come you don't do so well on this forum then?

Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

"Dallas" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine management
systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If you really
think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to seperate them from
the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the earth for you
are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a highway once when I
heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks airbrake behind me.
Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck, but a lot of smoke coming
from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road puzzled about what the
problem could be, only to discover that one of my rear tyres had been
punctured. The cars handling in that situation was unchanged even with one
of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been in a lesser car...

That's all very nice.
I didn't know BMW was a tire manufacturer... Oops! They're not!
The funny thing is that you still don't seem to realize that none of the
above which you keep rambling about has ANYTHING to do with
reliability--which was the
one...and...only...comparative...aspect...I...brou ght...up...at...all (you
boob).

But just to keep you entertained and enlightened...
Modern Land Cruisers have...
Every single item you mention in that nice long list (although Toyota
doesn't actually manufacture run-flat tires...though BMW doesn't either, so
it doesn't count).


You REALLY REALLY need to do some comparative research before you shoot your
mouth off, Dallas. It is truly stunning how many times you've demonstrated
(including this last post of yours) that you simply don't know what you are
making comparisons with.
I'll spell it out for you.
The "Lowly" Toyota Land Cruiser comes with:
Electronic brake distribution? check
Anti-braking? check
Traction control? Check
Side impact air-bags? Check
Park-distance control? Yep...if you want it, it's there.
Compterized engine management? Check--part of Land Cruiser's Navigation
system.
Climate Control? Check
Heated Seats? Check
Locking Center and rear differential? Check (oops...BMW doesn't have that)
Full-time four wheel drive? Check
You want more?
Nah.
I'm getting bored.

The funny thing is... I don't care what BMW (or Toyotas, for that matter)
come equipped with, you silly man! I never delved into that at all.
Your obsessive/compulsive ways caused YOU to bring all that silly stuff into
this for GOD know why (???).

There are organization that specialize in compiling these cold, hard
statistics.
One of them is a company that is sometimes criticized for their
recommendations.
But...Nobody criticizes their reliability statistics, because these are
not based on opinion...rather they are simple ratings based upon the
percentages of break-downs/failures reported by owners of each
manufacturer's vehicles. One such data collection is compiled by
Consumer
Reports. I don't think they are experts on which car (or camera) one
would buy, but they are pretty good at the fairly simple 7th grade math
required to compile accurate statistical data on reliability. These
ratings are widely available. It's really rather silly to blab about it
here, but you seem awfully "irked" (as you called yourself...). So I'll
try to provide you with some data just to ease your pain.


Yes, we have the same sorts of organisations here in darkest Africa. BMW's
are renowned for their excellent reliability and have been consistently
ranked top of the pile in terms of after-sales service for many, many
years (and by a very long way, I might add).

big lecture on the rules of debating snipped

Uh...Dallas...
You ASKED me to explain, remember???


How come you don't do so well on this forum then?

Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:31:48 -0700, Mark M wrote:


"Dallas" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine
management systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If
you really think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to seperate
them from the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the
earth for you are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a
highway once when I heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks
airbrake behind me. Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck, but
a lot of smoke coming from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road
puzzled about what the problem could be, only to discover that one of my
rear tyres had been punctured. The cars handling in that situation was
unchanged even with one of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been in
a lesser car...

That's all very nice.

snip

Bye-bye baby.

--
Dallas www.dallasdahms.com

"You know you're right! You're bloody well right!
You've bloody got a right to say!" ~ Supertramp

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:31:48 -0700, Mark M wrote:


"Dallas" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine
management systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If
you really think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to seperate
them from the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the
earth for you are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a
highway once when I heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks
airbrake behind me. Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck, but
a lot of smoke coming from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road
puzzled about what the problem could be, only to discover that one of my
rear tyres had been punctured. The cars handling in that situation was
unchanged even with one of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been in
a lesser car...

That's all very nice.

snip

Bye-bye baby.

--
Dallas www.dallasdahms.com

"You know you're right! You're bloody well right!
You've bloody got a right to say!" ~ Supertramp

"Dallas" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:31:48 -0700, Mark M wrote:


"Dallas" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:17:11 -0700, Mark M wrote:

There's more to being "equipped" than leather and CD players.

But it's no surprise that your tendency for blanket generalities
would
fail to discern this.

You're damn right about that. I call equipment like Electronic brake
distribution, Anti-lock braking, traction control, run-flat tyres,
side-impact airbags, park-distance control, computerised engine
management systems, climate control and many others to be equipment. If
you really think that BMW's only have leather and CD players to
seperate
them from the crap that Toyota puts into their cars and charges the
earth for you are sadly mistaken. I was travelling at 140kmh on a
highway once when I heard a strange noise that sounded like a trucks
airbrake behind me. Looked in the rear view mirror and saw no truck,
but
a lot of smoke coming from the back of my BMW. Pulled off the road
puzzled about what the problem could be, only to discover that one of
my
rear tyres had been punctured. The cars handling in that situation was
unchanged even with one of the drive wheels incapacitated. Had I been
in
a lesser car...

That's all very nice.

snip

Bye-bye baby.

Bye, sweetheart.