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Where I keep my spare cats.



 
 
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  #211  
Old July 24th 17, 12:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 569
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

On 07/24/2017 12:40 AM, Diesel wrote:
PeterN news Mon, 24 Jul 2017 00:21:36 GMT in rec.photo.digital, wrote:

On 7/23/2017 3:05 PM, nospam wrote:

snip


five is actually rather generous. most people don't even own five
computers.

Irrelevant.


I don't know where this person comes up with most either.. I know
quite a few people with more than five computers in their homes.
Actual computers in the desktop/tower/laptop sense. More if you
include the cells, tablets, etc.


I have fifteen functional computers here, all hardwire connected to my
network and online. Of those, six are laptops (Dell Latitude E6500),
four are desktops (HP dc5800), and five are older towers (Dell &
others). All are running Ubuntu Linux, and are perfectly capable of
doing whatever task I need done.

By nospam's definition, I am "most people". (nospam: "most people don't
even own five computers." I don't even own five computers, ergo, I am
"most people")



--
Ken Hart

  #212  
Old July 24th 17, 01:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default PeterN Music Tx issue: was Where I keep my spare cats.

In article
XnsA7BC8D73FB7AHT1@5Ey7Y0WLaPuERU0A05uPw88DhkqXmR dYH29POSXNQp8t9iyKPynW.
27RaAms, Diesel wrote:


Please let us know if it works or doesn't for you. I'm suspecting
that the DRM (which is why Apple probably told you no) is going to be
a problem, but, I admit, I could very well be wrong.


you suspect wrong. drm has *nothing* to do with his situation.

if he bought the music from the itunes store, he can re-download it. if
it's music he extracted from cds (or even pirated), then apple has
nothing to do with it.

his first mistake was not having a backup of his music library when he
got rid of his computer.

his second mistake is assuming the music cannot be copied off an ipod.
it can.

your mistake is talking about things you know nothing about.
  #213  
Old July 24th 17, 01:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:


I have fifteen functional computers here, all hardwire connected to my
network and online. Of those, six are laptops (Dell Latitude E6500),
four are desktops (HP dc5800), and five are older towers (Dell &
others). All are running Ubuntu Linux, and are perfectly capable of
doing whatever task I need done.


you're running a business. most people don't have anywhere close to
that in their homes and businesses don't normally buy music for their
employees.

five is more than enough for nearly every situation and since there's
no longer drm, it doesn't actually matter anymore.
  #214  
Old July 24th 17, 02:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

In article
XnsA7BC8D6E5FD1HT1@5Ey7Y0WLaPuERU0A05uPw88DhkqXmR dYH29POSXNQp8t9iyKPynW.
27RaAms, Diesel wrote:

Realistically, the restrictions creates a problem. Several years
ago my daughter gave me an iPod, about half filled with some of my
favorite music. The source for the music was my music collection,
consisting of some irreplaceable recordings, including original
Louis Armstrong, Toscanini, Caruso, Lanza, three different
versions of Wagner's first, etc. The original computer that she
used is long gone. I would like to transfer the music to my
iPhone, and add new music. Apple has told me that it can't be
done. I'm sure there is a way. The suggestions on some of the
Internet forums has not been very helpful. Realistically, the
reality is that you don't know what the hell you are talking
about. Don't give me that bull about "most." There are many others
who have needs similar to mine.


Indeed. DRM is a real ****er isn't it. No decryption key, no tunes.
Praise be to Apple for screwing you and countless others like you
over, two ways from sunday. /sarcasm off. I meant no offense to you
Peter, you've called him out and that brings a smile to my face.


drm isn't the issue and no decryption keys needed. you can't see past
your hate to understand the actual problem.

he didn't back up his music when he got rid of the computer.

despite that, he can easily copy the music off the ipod. apple doesn't
prevent that.


five is actually rather generous. most people don't even own five
computers.

Irrelevant.


I don't know where this person comes up with most either.. I know
quite a few people with more than five computers in their homes.
Actual computers in the desktop/tower/laptop sense. More if you
include the cells, tablets, etc.


*very* few have that many computers and cellphones and tablets do not
count, along with ipods.
  #215  
Old July 24th 17, 02:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 569
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

On 07/24/2017 08:46 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Hart
wrote:


I have fifteen functional computers here, all hardwire connected to my
network and online. Of those, six are laptops (Dell Latitude E6500),
four are desktops (HP dc5800), and five are older towers (Dell &
others). All are running Ubuntu Linux, and are perfectly capable of
doing whatever task I need done.


you're running a business. most people don't have anywhere close to
that in their homes and businesses don't normally buy music for their
employees.


As of 12/31/2014, I am no longer running a business. The laptops and
desktop machines were purchased after closing my business.

Your reply should have perhaps been: "Are you running a business?",
rather than assuming something about which you know nothing.

I am a computer hobbyist: I enjoy learning about Linux and networking,
and rebuilding older machines.

My nephew, OTOH, does run a business, and as a part of his business,
does buy music for his employees. He runs a radio station.


five is more than enough for nearly every situation and since there's
no longer drm, it doesn't actually matter anymore.



--
Ken Hart

  #216  
Old July 24th 17, 03:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:


I have fifteen functional computers here, all hardwire connected to my
network and online. Of those, six are laptops (Dell Latitude E6500),
four are desktops (HP dc5800), and five are older towers (Dell &
others). All are running Ubuntu Linux, and are perfectly capable of
doing whatever task I need done.


you're running a business. most people don't have anywhere close to
that in their homes and businesses don't normally buy music for their
employees.


As of 12/31/2014, I am no longer running a business. The laptops and
desktop machines were purchased after closing my business.

Your reply should have perhaps been: "Are you running a business?",
rather than assuming something about which you know nothing.


it was a reasonable assumption.

I am a computer hobbyist: I enjoy learning about Linux and networking,
and rebuilding older machines.


that's not a typical scenario and you know it.

plus, itunes doesn't run on linux (nor do most mainstream apps) so none
of this affects you in any way.

My nephew, OTOH, does run a business, and as a part of his business,
does buy music for his employees. He runs a radio station.


also not a typical scenario.

meanwhile, millions and millions of users have one or two computers,
not fifteen.

and again, even if someone does have 15 computers, not all of them need
to be authenticated.

it's a non-issue drummed up by haters who haven't used itunes.
  #217  
Old July 24th 17, 04:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 9:38:39 AM UTC-4, Ken Hart wrote:
On 07/24/2017 08:46 AM, nospam wrote:
Ken Hart wrote:

I have fifteen functional computers here, all hardwire connected to my
network and online. Of those, six are laptops (Dell Latitude E6500),
four are desktops (HP dc5800), and five are older towers (Dell &
others). All are running Ubuntu Linux, and are perfectly capable of
doing whatever task I need done.


you're running a business. most people don't have anywhere close to
that in their homes and businesses don't normally buy music for their
employees.


As of 12/31/2014, I am no longer running a business. The laptops and
desktop machines were purchased after closing my business.

Your reply should have perhaps been: "Are you running a business?",
rather than assuming something about which you know nothing.

I am a computer hobbyist: I enjoy learning about Linux and networking,
and rebuilding older machines.


Yes, he worded that poorly, but the basic point still holds that none
of us are probably reasonably representative of the overall population.

(eg, "The Plural of Anecdote is still not Data")


In looking for actual population estimates, the US Census has some
decent data, although not readily in a form to answer the question
which was being posed ... nevertheless, it is reasonably adequate
to address just how common-or-uncommon a "more than 5 home PCs"
style of use case is for the Apple DRM question.

To this end, two cites (neither of which are particularly current):

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/archive/more-than-75-percent-of-american-households-own-computers.pdf

https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p20-569.pdf


From the first, see Table 1 (Average number of computers owned,
Consumer Expenditure Survey, 2000–08), second line: "Mean number
of computers - owners only 1.25 1.26 1.31 1.34 1.36 1.43 1.46 1.50 1.55"

In simple terms, this is saying that as of the latest datapoint in
their report (2008), of households which reported that they had one
or more computers, the average (mean) number of "one or more" that
they had was 1.55 units.

To extrapolate from 2008 to 2017, a KISS linear swag would be a
value of roughly +0.05/year, so an extrapolated expected value
of around (1.55 + 9*0.05 = 2 units). Now there isn't any variance
listed, but it would appear to be pretty self-evident that the
overall percentage who exceeds an expected value of ~2 by 200%
or more (because +200% would b 2+4 = 6) is pretty damn low...
parametrically, probably a +3 sigma event (if not more). Let's
kindly avoid making the tail wag the dog.

Similarly, from the second source, Table 3 on page 7 has some
insight ... the "from multiple devices" and "not from multiple devices"
metric. However, this appears to be conflated by mobile smartphones,
not just desktops/laptops. And while this table is a bit of a
challenge to break down, in simplified distilled form, it says:

No Connectivity = 30% (no PC = 16%, hardware with no connection = 14%)

No home Connectivity, but connectivity elsewhere (3% + 3%) = 6%

Subtracting,
home connectivity with 'something': 100% - 30% - 6% = 64%

Breaking this 64% down:

14% - only at home, without multiple devices
13% - only at home, but with multiple devices
10% - connectivity home & elsewhere, without multiple devices
27% - connectivity home & elsewhere, but with multiple devices

Of these, only the 2nd (13%) & 4th (27%) are categories
that state that there's more than one device ... sums to 40%.

However, as mentioned, the 'more than one' device could quite
readably be a smartphone, which particularly makes sense from
the 27% metric of connectivity including away-from-home. As
such, this should not be readily assumed to be an indicator
of more than one home PC. Nevertheless, this census data does
indicate that at least (14% + 10%) = 24% only have a single
device.

Combining these two sources, it may be able to be implied
that if 24% of owners only possess a single device while the
mean ownership is (1.55 or 2), then the average number of
devices owned by just those who own more than one can be
approximated as:

(.24) + (1-.24)(M) = 2 (or 1.55 if you prefer)

Solving for M,

(.76)(M) = 2 - .24

M = (2 - .24)/(.76)
M = 2.3

M = Expected value of units owned by those who report owning more than one = 2.3

Given that this is less than half of the DRM "limit 5", it again
indicates that a relatively small percentage of all users would
statistically be likely to encounter the limit.

FWIW, what's probably much more likely is that old PCs get
retired off without being properly removed such that over a
course of several years of buying new replacement computers
(and/or a family household) that the "limit 5" gets encountered.
However, since the DRM was later eliminated, this is more of a
footnote to a functionally moot point.


-hh
  #218  
Old July 24th 17, 05:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

On 7/24/2017 12:40 AM, Diesel wrote:
PeterN news Mon, 24 Jul 2017 00:21:36 GMT in rec.photo.digital, wrote:

On 7/23/2017 3:05 PM, nospam wrote:

snip


the only limit was for *computers*.

the reality is that the majority of users only needs to authorize
one computer, the one which hosts their music library and from
which they sync their ipods.


Realistically, the restrictions creates a problem. Several years
ago my daughter gave me an iPod, about half filled with some of my
favorite music. The source for the music was my music collection,
consisting of some irreplaceable recordings, including original
Louis Armstrong, Toscanini, Caruso, Lanza, three different
versions of Wagner's first, etc. The original computer that she
used is long gone. I would like to transfer the music to my
iPhone, and add new music. Apple has told me that it can't be
done. I'm sure there is a way. The suggestions on some of the
Internet forums has not been very helpful. Realistically, the
reality is that you don't know what the hell you are talking
about. Don't give me that bull about "most." There are many others
who have needs similar to mine.


Indeed. DRM is a real ****er isn't it. No decryption key, no tunes.
Praise be to Apple for screwing you and countless others like you
over, two ways from sunday. /sarcasm off. I meant no offense to you
Peter, you've called him out and that brings a smile to my face.

five is actually rather generous. most people don't even own five
computers.

Irrelevant.


I don't know where this person comes up with most either.. I know
quite a few people with more than five computers in their homes.
Actual computers in the desktop/tower/laptop sense. More if you
include the cells, tablets, etc.






--
PeterN
  #219  
Old July 24th 17, 06:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default PeterN Music Tx issue: was Where I keep my spare cats.

On 7/24/2017 8:41 AM, nospam wrote:
In article
XnsA7BC8D73FB7AHT1@5Ey7Y0WLaPuERU0A05uPw88DhkqXmR dYH29POSXNQp8t9iyKPynW.
27RaAms, Diesel wrote:


Please let us know if it works or doesn't for you. I'm suspecting
that the DRM (which is why Apple probably told you no) is going to be
a problem, but, I admit, I could very well be wrong.


you suspect wrong. drm has *nothing* to do with his situation.

if he bought the music from the itunes store, he can re-download it. if
it's music he extracted from cds (or even pirated), then apple has
nothing to do with it.

his first mistake was not having a backup of his music library when he
got rid of his computer.


Yet again you spout without knowing the facts. But keep on. I need to be
amused.



his second mistake is assuming the music cannot be copied off an ipod.
it can.


Not the issue.

your mistake is talking about things you know nothing about.



--
PeterN
  #220  
Old July 24th 17, 06:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Where I keep my spare cats.

On 7/24/2017 8:46 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Hart
wrote:


I have fifteen functional computers here, all hardwire connected to my
network and online. Of those, six are laptops (Dell Latitude E6500),
four are desktops (HP dc5800), and five are older towers (Dell &
others). All are running Ubuntu Linux, and are perfectly capable of
doing whatever task I need done.


you're running a business. most people don't have anywhere close to
that in their homes and businesses don't normally buy music for their
employees.

five is more than enough for nearly every situation and since there's
no longer drm, it doesn't actually matter anymore.



--
PeterN
 




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