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Told you Sony's 24mp sensor was noisy
In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bruce wrote:
Rich wrote: I noticed it in the NEX-7 results and now, it seems that the SLT-A77 has the issue. However, the camera does show really high resolution. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta77/page14.asp The level of high ISO noise is quite frightening. We had some images from both an NEX-7 and an A77 at a Sony event. The noise levels at high ISOs were extremely high. We were reassured that the cameras were pre-production samples and that the production cameras would be much better. It seems that they aren't. Sony Alpha has a long history of disappointments and this is just one more to add to the list. You would think that Sony would learn from their mistakes, but they just keep on making the same ones, over and over again. The Pentax K5 remains the noise control king of APS. Sony makes some excellent sensors that perform exceptionally well in other brands of camera. But put the same (or similar) sensor in a Sony camera, and the results are very disappointing. The 16 MP sensor in the Pentax K-5 is also used in the Nikon D7000 and several Sony models. In the Pentax and Nikon it delivers excellent image quality with very good noise control - the Pentax just shades the Nikon in this respect. But put the same sensor in a Sony A35 or NEX-C3, and it becomes one of the noisiest sensors on the market. The same was true of the 24 MP full frame A900 (and later A850) whose high ISO noise was desperately bad. Yet the Sony-made 24 MP sensor in the full frame Nikon D3X performed extremely well. However the sensors are not the same, so the conclusions here are less clear, except that if you want low noise at high ISOs, don't buy Sony. In other words there's nothing wrong with the sensor. Which suggests the problem must be in the processing, i.e. other camera makers have better in-camera jpeg noise reduction, and possibly put a bit of NR in between the sensor and the supposedly unprocessed RAW image file. In recent years we've seen a number of new much improved noise reduction methods available as stand-alone programs or editor plug-ins which not surprisingly give better results than in-camera noise reduction. So the interesting question is whether when these improved noise reducers are applied to Sony RAW images you get noise reduction at least comparable to that offered by other camera makers. You certainly get an amazing improvement over what Sony's own in-camera jpeg noise reduction offers. But how does it then compare to what you can get from Nikon and Canon with similar processing? -- Chris Malcolm |
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Told you Sony's 24mp sensor was noisy
On 27 Oct 2011 18:10:13 GMT, Chris Malcolm wrote:
: In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bruce wrote: : Rich wrote: : I noticed it in the NEX-7 results and now, it seems that the SLT-A77 has : the issue. However, the camera does show really high resolution. : : http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta77/page14.asp : : The level of high ISO noise is quite frightening. We had some images : from both an NEX-7 and an A77 at a Sony event. The noise levels at : high ISOs were extremely high. We were reassured that the cameras : were pre-production samples and that the production cameras would be : much better. It seems that they aren't. : : Sony Alpha has a long history of disappointments and this is just one : more to add to the list. You would think that Sony would learn from : their mistakes, but they just keep on making the same ones, over and : over again. : : The Pentax K5 remains the noise control king of APS. : : Sony makes some excellent sensors that perform exceptionally well in : other brands of camera. But put the same (or similar) sensor in a : Sony camera, and the results are very disappointing. : : The 16 MP sensor in the Pentax K-5 is also used in the Nikon D7000 and : several Sony models. In the Pentax and Nikon it delivers excellent : image quality with very good noise control - the Pentax just shades : the Nikon in this respect. But put the same sensor in a Sony A35 or : NEX-C3, and it becomes one of the noisiest sensors on the market. : : The same was true of the 24 MP full frame A900 (and later A850) whose : high ISO noise was desperately bad. Yet the Sony-made 24 MP sensor in : the full frame Nikon D3X performed extremely well. However the : sensors are not the same, so the conclusions here are less clear, : except that if you want low noise at high ISOs, don't buy Sony. : : In other words there's nothing wrong with the sensor. Which suggests : the problem must be in the processing, i.e. other camera makers have : better in-camera jpeg noise reduction, and possibly put a bit of NR in : between the sensor and the supposedly unprocessed RAW image file. In : recent years we've seen a number of new much improved noise reduction : methods available as stand-alone programs or editor plug-ins which not : surprisingly give better results than in-camera noise reduction. : : So the interesting question is whether when these improved noise : reducers are applied to Sony RAW images you get noise reduction at : least comparable to that offered by other camera makers. You certainly : get an amazing improvement over what Sony's own in-camera jpeg noise : reduction offers. : : But how does it then compare to what you can get from Nikon and Canon : with similar processing? By default, Canon estimates the amount of noise reduction you need and applies it to the RAW file. But no information is lost; and if you don't want the NR, you can easily reverse it in the photo editor. Occasionally I'll decide that an image needs more NR and tweak it upwards in PP. It makes the image a bit blurrier, but usually the overall effect is improved. I'm not sure this is an answer to the question you posed, but maybe it helps define the context. Bob |
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Told you Sony's 24mp sensor was noisy
On 10/28/2011 8:52 AM, Robert Coe wrote:
On 27 Oct 2011 18:10:13 GMT, Chris wrote: : In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems wrote: : wrote: :I noticed it in the NEX-7 results and now, it seems that the SLT-A77 has :the issue. However, the camera does show really high resolution. : :http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta77/page14.asp : : The level of high ISO noise is quite frightening. We had some images : from both an NEX-7 and an A77 at a Sony event. The noise levels at : high ISOs were extremely high. We were reassured that the cameras : were pre-production samples and that the production cameras would be : much better. It seems that they aren't. : : Sony Alpha has a long history of disappointments and this is just one : more to add to the list. You would think that Sony would learn from : their mistakes, but they just keep on making the same ones, over and : over again. : :The Pentax K5 remains the noise control king of APS. : : Sony makes some excellent sensors that perform exceptionally well in : other brands of camera. But put the same (or similar) sensor in a : Sony camera, and the results are very disappointing. : : The 16 MP sensor in the Pentax K-5 is also used in the Nikon D7000 and : several Sony models. In the Pentax and Nikon it delivers excellent : image quality with very good noise control - the Pentax just shades : the Nikon in this respect. But put the same sensor in a Sony A35 or : NEX-C3, and it becomes one of the noisiest sensors on the market. : : The same was true of the 24 MP full frame A900 (and later A850) whose : high ISO noise was desperately bad. Yet the Sony-made 24 MP sensor in : the full frame Nikon D3X performed extremely well. However the : sensors are not the same, so the conclusions here are less clear, : except that if you want low noise at high ISOs, don't buy Sony. : : In other words there's nothing wrong with the sensor. Which suggests : the problem must be in the processing, i.e. other camera makers have : better in-camera jpeg noise reduction, and possibly put a bit of NR in : between the sensor and the supposedly unprocessed RAW image file. In : recent years we've seen a number of new much improved noise reduction : methods available as stand-alone programs or editor plug-ins which not : surprisingly give better results than in-camera noise reduction. : : So the interesting question is whether when these improved noise : reducers are applied to Sony RAW images you get noise reduction at : least comparable to that offered by other camera makers. You certainly : get an amazing improvement over what Sony's own in-camera jpeg noise : reduction offers. : : But how does it then compare to what you can get from Nikon and Canon : with similar processing? By default, Canon estimates the amount of noise reduction you need and applies it to the RAW file. But no information is lost; and if you don't want the NR, you can easily reverse it in the photo editor. Occasionally I'll decide that an image needs more NR and tweak it upwards in PP. It makes the image a bit blurrier, but usually the overall effect is improved. I'm not sure this is an answer to the question you posed, but maybe it helps define the context. AFAIK NR is usually accomplished by color blurring. -- Peter |
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