Opinions Wanted

On 2014-05-23 23:14:50 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 5/23/14 PDT, 8:52 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-23 15:23:22 +0000, John McWilliams said:

I also like the B+W better.

Yup! B&W can do a nice job when it comes to landscapes, Adams convinced
me of that.

Here is a little something from Sequoia NP.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...dit-Edit-1.jpg

Nice!
Did you consider 'burning in' the top of the foreground tree? I know
you know that term, and many others can 'figger it out'.....

It could be something to consider, but at an almost 7,000 foot altitude
on that particular day, you might say it had its head in the clouds.
Anyway here is a bit of a subtle *burn*.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...dit-Edit-2.jpg

here is another glimpse of the sort of day it was up there in the Sierras.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...884-Edit-1.jpg

That one would probably have been a bit easier to *burn in*.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...884-Edit-2.jpg
--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:23:22 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:

On 5/23/14 PDT, 5:54 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-23 12:42:13 +0000, Savageduck
said:

On 2014-05-23 11:29:25 +0000, Savageduck
said:

Snipped bits out

OK! First the ACR adjustments.
This time I used *Camera Neutral* instead of *Camera Standard*
Then I fixed the spots.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Next the CA adjustment.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_710.jpg

Now the basic adjustments including black & white point setting.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_711.jpg

Then a further adjustment to the foreground using the adjustment brush.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_712.jpg

Finally in ACR some sharpening. Note the settings with a fairly heavy
handed on the masking to exclude the areas where sharpening is not
wanted.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_709.jpg

Only resizing and crop was done in PS CC, and the final version added
to the DB folder with the other two. No additional sharpening.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project


BTW:

Here was my crop POV.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_714.jpg

For my taste, foreground is too crunchy, diverts attention.

As to cropping, I'd like to see more open space- a gap in the flora- on
the left side, showing a bit of open ocean.

I also like the B+W better.

How about:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2014-05-23 23:20:45 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 05:42:13 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 11:29:25 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2014-05-23 09:24:30 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 00:18:51 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 06:15:22 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2014-05-23 04:31:01 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:51:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.

Even at full magnification in ACR the fringes are barely visible. The
very prononounced fringes in the files in Dropbox are due to my
efforts to enlarge the image size and to sharpen the result. I first
worked separately upon the greenery by cutting it out with a layer
mask which included the various flax stalks, branches and twigs
protruding into the sea and the hills behind.

The original image size was 3008 x 2000. After cropping I increased
the size to 8419 x 5953. After allowing for the cropping I estimate
that was about a 16 times increase in the number of pixels (4 times
increase on each side). Smart sharpen was then not working for me and
I sharpened the image with multiple passes of unsharp mask at 5, 4, 3,
2 and 1 pixel. That last pixel produced fringing all over the place so
I reversed it with ctrl+z. I suspect I should have undone the 2
pixel sharpen also.

The purple colour can be explained in part by the fact that the flax
stalks are deep purple.

You can find the original NEF file at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3/_DSC1370.NEF

I will play with that.

OK!
Without second guessing your intentions and actual adjustments I took a
quick look at it and did the following:
Opened in ACR, set camera profile to camera standard, set the 18-70mm
lens profile, and activated the CA correction moving the purple slider
slightly to the right.
In the Basic panel I set the black & white points, opened up the
shadows, checked highlights, & added some clarity.
In the Details panel I set the sharpening to 124% with a 1.4 radius, &
applied a mask to take the overcast out of the sharpening equation.
I then checked for spots, and guess what you have a bunch of dustspots
up in the broad expanse of the overcast. I fixed those.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Opened into PS CC, in ProPhoto RGB 3008x2000 @ 360 ppi:

I went to *Image Size* and set to your 8419x5953 @360 ppi.
Selected crop tool, and set that to 8419x5953 @360 ppi, then did what I
could to come closest to your #2 crop.
For a different crop version I selected a 16:9 ratio which comes out at
8419x4736 @360.

I did no other molestation.

So here are those two crop versions with the CA taken care of:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project

Interesting.

You

brought

up the greenery in the foreground from out of
the depths of darkness but you did likewise with the hills in the
background. It was that very problem that caused me to separate the
foreground from the background with a layer mask. The two regions
require quite different treatment.

As I said, I was doing a quick down and dirty treatment looking at
three things:
ACR NEF processing where I dealt with basics, including CF correction,
sharpening, etc.
Resizing and two crops to final dimensions similar to yours. My primary
concern was fixing the CF issue.
I didn't consider any other treatment including your method of resizing
and sharpening with either Smart Sharpen or multiple passes of USM. I
thought that this was an image which could suffer from a heavy hand
with sharpening.

Just my opinion.

What I will do a third, more deliberate version which I will add to
that DB folder later today.

OK! First the ACR adjustments.
This time I used *Camera Neutral* instead of *Camera Standard*
Then I fixed the spots.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

'Spots'? Those wuz seegulls!

Definitely dust spots. I also own a D70 and I know what a dust magnet
it can be. Just look at the structure of those spots prior to
correction. Them's not gulls.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_717.jpg

Next the CA adjustment.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_710.jpg

Now the basic adjustments including black & white point setting.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_711.jpg

Then a further adjustment to the foreground using the adjustment brush.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_712.jpg

Finally in ACR some sharpening. Note the settings with a fairly heavy
handed on the masking to exclude the areas where sharpening is not
wanted.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_709.jpg

Only resizing and crop was done in PS CC, and the final version added
to the DB folder with the other two. No additional sharpening.

I did the sharpening after resizing.

....and you might have done that a bit too much, resulting in some of
the sharpening artifacts on those bare branches which appear as halo
like fringing. That is an image which can survive without too much
sharpening.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project


The

hills are good but the greenery should not be as light as in
image 3.

Artistic license. ;-)

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:47:50 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 15:23:22 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 5/23/14 PDT, 5:54 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-23 12:42:13 +0000, Savageduck
said:

On 2014-05-23 11:29:25 +0000, Savageduck
said:

Snipped bits out

OK! First the ACR adjustments.
This time I used *Camera Neutral* instead of *Camera Standard*
Then I fixed the spots.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Next the CA adjustment.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_710.jpg

Now the basic adjustments including black & white point setting.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_711.jpg

Then a further adjustment to the foreground using the adjustment brush.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_712.jpg

Finally in ACR some sharpening. Note the settings with a fairly heavy
handed on the masking to exclude the areas where sharpening is not
wanted.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_709.jpg

Only resizing and crop was done in PS CC, and the final version added
to the DB folder with the other two. No additional sharpening.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project


BTW:

Here

was my crop POV.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_714.jpg

For my taste, foreground is too crunchy, diverts attention.

That is fixable.

As to cropping, I'd like to see more open space- a gap in the flora- on
the left side, showing a bit of open ocean.

That is easier said than done. If you take a look at mt crop POV in
screenshot 714 above, you will see that the flora pretty much take up
the foreground all the way to the left.

I also like the B+W better.

Yup! I threw that in there because I felt a B&W rendition would work.

I don't think a simple B&W rendition would work as a large print which
is going to be viewed at a realtively short range. I've now included
my version as number 2 in the dropbox album at
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

1. I flattened the original image.
2. I then made a second layer as a copy.
3. I converted the background (bottom) layer to B&W.
4. After a certain amount of experimenting I converted to overlay
mode with 25% transparency of the upper layer.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2014-05-23 23:29:49 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 05:54:51 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Le Snip
Here was my crop POV.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_714.jpg

Interesting. Just a little more than I used and I don't think it
suffers for it. Did you have the eventual size of print in mind when
you did it?

I was always working back to your final size. So I set the crop tool to
8419x5953 @ 360, and then did a second crop using a 16:9 ratio which
just took some off the top and bottom to bring the image w/o matte, to
8419x4736 @360.

Having gone back to mine while looking at yours I think I prefer my
treatment of the hills: they are darker and more clear cut. That's
what I was aiming at when I took the picture.

I guess I was thinking in terms of the etherial mist shrouded hills.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-05-24 00:07:42 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:47:50 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 15:23:22 +0000, John McWilliams said:

Le Snip

I also like the B+W better.

Yup! I threw that in there because I felt a B&W rendition would work.

I don't think a simple B&W rendition would work as a large print which
is going to be viewed at a realtively short range. I've now included
my version as number 2 in the dropbox album at
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

1. I flattened the original image.
2. I then made a second layer as a copy.
3. I converted the background (bottom) layer to B&W.
4. After a certain amount of experimenting I converted to overlay
mode with 25% transparency of the upper layer.

How did you make your B&W conversion?

I used NIK Silver Efex Pro 2 which automatically works on a separate layer.
I didn't use a preset.
I started out with a *green* filter. Then made manual adjustments to
brightness in highlights, mid-tones, & shadows. Followed by similar
contrast & structure adjustments.
I finished with a very light *selenium* tone.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:07:42 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:47:50 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 15:23:22 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 5/23/14 PDT, 5:54 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-23 12:42:13 +0000, Savageduck
said:

On 2014-05-23 11:29:25 +0000, Savageduck
said:

Snipped bits out

OK! First the ACR adjustments.
This time I used *Camera Neutral* instead of *Camera Standard*
Then I fixed the spots.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Next the CA adjustment.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_710.jpg

Now the basic adjustments including black & white point setting.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_711.jpg

Then a further adjustment to the foreground using the adjustment brush.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_712.jpg

Finally in ACR some sharpening. Note the settings with a fairly heavy
handed on the masking to exclude the areas where sharpening is not
wanted.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_709.jpg

Only resizing and crop was done in PS CC, and the final version added
to the DB folder with the other two. No additional sharpening.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project


BTW:

Here

was my crop POV.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_714.jpg

For my taste, foreground is too crunchy, diverts attention.

That is fixable.

As to cropping, I'd like to see more open space- a gap in the flora- on
the left side, showing a bit of open ocean.

That is easier said than done. If you take a look at mt crop POV in
screenshot 714 above, you will see that the flora pretty much take up
the foreground all the way to the left.

I also like the B+W better.

Yup! I threw that in there because I felt a B&W rendition would work.

I don't think a simple B&W rendition would work as a large print which
is going to be viewed at a realtively short range. I've now included
my version as number 2 in the dropbox album at
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

1. I flattened the original image.
2. I then made a second layer as a copy.
3. I converted the background (bottom) layer to B&W.
4. After a certain amount of experimenting I converted to overlay
mode with 25% transparency of the upper layer.

That's interesting. Now it's:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...s0Am5pTwRtDQva
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 23 May 2014 17:24:21 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-24 00:07:42 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:47:50 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 15:23:22 +0000, John McWilliams said:

Le Snip

I also like the B+W better.

Yup! I threw that in there because I felt a B&W rendition would work.

I don't think a simple B&W rendition would work as a large print which
is going to be viewed at a realtively short range. I've now included
my version as number 2 in the dropbox album at
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

1. I flattened the original image.
2. I then made a second layer as a copy.
3. I converted the background (bottom) layer to B&W.
4. After a certain amount of experimenting I converted to overlay
mode with 25% transparency of the upper layer.

How did you make your B&W conversion?

Photoshop - Image Adjustments Black and white.

I used NIK Silver Efex Pro 2 which automatically works on a separate layer.
I didn't use a preset.
I started out with a *green* filter. Then made manual adjustments to
brightness in highlights, mid-tones, & shadows. Followed by similar
contrast & structure adjustments.
I finished with a very light *selenium* tone.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:00:25 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 08:23:22 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:

On 5/23/14 PDT, 5:54 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-23 12:42:13 +0000, Savageduck
said:

On 2014-05-23 11:29:25 +0000, Savageduck
said:

Snipped bits out

OK! First the ACR adjustments.
This time I used *Camera Neutral* instead of *Camera Standard*
Then I fixed the spots.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Next the CA adjustment.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_710.jpg

Now the basic adjustments including black & white point setting.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_711.jpg

Then a further adjustment to the foreground using the adjustment brush.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_712.jpg

Finally in ACR some sharpening. Note the settings with a fairly heavy
handed on the masking to exclude the areas where sharpening is not
wanted.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_709.jpg

Only resizing and crop was done in PS CC, and the final version added
to the DB folder with the other two. No additional sharpening.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project


BTW:

Here was my crop POV.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_714.jpg

For my taste, foreground is too crunchy, diverts attention.

As to cropping, I'd like to see more open space- a gap in the flora- on
the left side, showing a bit of open ocean.

I also like the B+W better.

How about:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

Now it's
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...s0Am5pTwRtDQva
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 23 May 2014 17:14:32 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 23:29:49 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Fri, 23 May 2014 05:54:51 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Le Snip
Here was my crop POV.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_714.jpg

Interesting. Just a little more than I used and I don't think it
suffers for it. Did you have the eventual size of print in mind when
you did it?

I was always working back to your final size. So I set the crop tool to
8419x5953 @ 360, and then did a second crop using a 16:9 ratio which
just took some off the top and bottom to bring the image w/o matte, to
8419x4736 @360.

Having gone back to mine while looking at yours I think I prefer my
treatment of the hills: they are darker and more clear cut. That's
what I was aiming at when I took the picture.

I guess I was thinking in terms of the etherial mist shrouded hills.

I was thinking of the silhouettes.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens