Opinions Wanted

On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:16:52 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:46:16 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
: coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
: a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
: suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.
:
: My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
: idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
: made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
: three different sets of strong opinions.
:
: I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
: prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
: anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
: a JPG of each version in:
:
: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

No. 2, cropped to an 8:5 aspect ratio by trimming the top. Both 1 (especially)
and 3 show too much of the featureless ocean and sky. The center of interest
is correctly placed on the rock outcroppings along the shore.

Recscuba has also suggested cropping to increase the aspect ratio. As
I explained to him, dimensions and proportions are already constrained
by the need to match another print.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:
-hh wrote:

Yeah, having some pains figuring out how to make dropbox share openly....
Let's try this one:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yitcoaec5a3kges/AAAhK_5adg_Z_bsLWCYutSh_a

(that one worked)

In any case, I hope it inspires some expression. My thought process was that
with the piece's title being "Bay", the context of the open water on the left is
a necessary element. Similarly, I believe that you have more interest in the
hills/cliffs than in the grasses, so this was adjusted accordingly (max/min)

That's good, but I have some constraints on proportions that I haven't
previously mentioned. It has to match an existing print.

Of course. There's always more constraints. Plus there's then also the color of
the room, lighting, etc ... and what she prefers for the matt & frame. You're the
first guy who's ever had this problem ;-)


However, it could well be used to match

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ion%20Rock.jpg

.... if I want matched prints of those proportions.

Agreed - those two probably could be tweaked into matching proportions
for a nice pairing. And of course, there's also then:

"Lion Rock Left & Woodpecker Bay right" -vs- "Woodpecker left & Lion right"?
g


-hh

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.

--
I was born a 1%er - I'm just more equal than the rest.

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-05-23 02:51:08 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

BTW: in the *Camera RAW* filter in Lens Correction, You will not be
able to set a lens profile, but CA correction is still available, as is
the *Upright* filter.


The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:51:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.

Even at full magnification in ACR the fringes are barely visible. The
very prononounced fringes in the files in Dropbox are due to my
efforts to enlarge the image size and to sharpen the result. I first
worked separately upon the greenery by cutting it out with a layer
mask which included the various flax stalks, branches and twigs
protruding into the sea and the hills behind.

The original image size was 3008 x 2000. After cropping I increased
the size to 8419 x 5953. After allowing for the cropping I estimate
that was about a 16 times increase in the number of pixels (4 times
increase on each side). Smart sharpen was then not working for me and
I sharpened the image with multiple passes of unsharp mask at 5, 4, 3,
2 and 1 pixel. That last pixel produced fringing all over the place so
I reversed it with ctrl+z. I suspect I should have undone the 2
pixel sharpen also.

The purple colour can be explained in part by the fact that the flax
stalks are deep purple.

You can find the original NEF file at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3/_DSC1370.NEF
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2014-05-23 04:31:01 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:51:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.

Even at full magnification in ACR the fringes are barely visible. The
very prononounced fringes in the files in Dropbox are due to my
efforts to enlarge the image size and to sharpen the result. I first
worked separately upon the greenery by cutting it out with a layer
mask which included the various flax stalks, branches and twigs
protruding into the sea and the hills behind.

The original image size was 3008 x 2000. After cropping I increased
the size to 8419 x 5953. After allowing for the cropping I estimate
that was about a 16 times increase in the number of pixels (4 times
increase on each side). Smart sharpen was then not working for me and
I sharpened the image with multiple passes of unsharp mask at 5, 4, 3,
2 and 1 pixel. That last pixel produced fringing all over the place so
I reversed it with ctrl+z. I suspect I should have undone the 2
pixel sharpen also.

The purple colour can be explained in part by the fact that the flax
stalks are deep purple.

You can find the original NEF file at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3/_DSC1370.NEF

I will play with that.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-05-23 06:15:22 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2014-05-23 04:31:01 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:51:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.

Even at full magnification in ACR the fringes are barely visible. The
very prononounced fringes in the files in Dropbox are due to my
efforts to enlarge the image size and to sharpen the result. I first
worked separately upon the greenery by cutting it out with a layer
mask which included the various flax stalks, branches and twigs
protruding into the sea and the hills behind.

The original image size was 3008 x 2000. After cropping I increased
the size to 8419 x 5953. After allowing for the cropping I estimate
that was about a 16 times increase in the number of pixels (4 times
increase on each side). Smart sharpen was then not working for me and
I sharpened the image with multiple passes of unsharp mask at 5, 4, 3,
2 and 1 pixel. That last pixel produced fringing all over the place so
I reversed it with ctrl+z. I suspect I should have undone the 2
pixel sharpen also.

The purple colour can be explained in part by the fact that the flax
stalks are deep purple.

You can find the original NEF file at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3/_DSC1370.NEF

I will play with that.

OK!
Without second guessing your intentions and actual adjustments I took a
quick look at it and did the following:
Opened in ACR, set camera profile to camera standard, set the 18-70mm
lens profile, and activated the CA correction moving the purple slider
slightly to the right.
In the Basic panel I set the black & white points, opened up the
shadows, checked highlights, & added some clarity.
In the Details panel I set the sharpening to 124% with a 1.4 radius, &
applied a mask to take the overcast out of the sharpening equation.
I then checked for spots, and guess what you have a bunch of dustspots
up in the broad expanse of the overcast. I fixed those.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Opened into PS CC, in ProPhoto RGB 3008x2000 @ 360 ppi:

I went to *Image Size* and set to your 8419x5953 @360 ppi.
Selected crop tool, and set that to 8419x5953 @360 ppi, then did what I
could to come closest to your #2 crop.
For a different crop version I selected a 16:9 ratio which comes out at
8419x4736 @360.

I did no other molestation.

So here are those two crop versions with the CA taken care of:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Fri, 23 May 2014 00:18:51 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 06:15:22 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2014-05-23 04:31:01 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:51:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-05-23 02:11:36 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:02:00 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2014.05.20, 23:46 , Eric Stevens wrote:
Some years ago I used my trusty D70 to take a photograph of a west
coast bay in rough conditions. Recently I've been trying to arrive at
a composition suitable for printing on matte paper in A2 size and
suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

My present problem is that every member of my family has a different
idea of the best composition and in an attempt to bring peace I have
made three different versions. That hasn't really helped as I now have
three different sets of strong opinions.

I know that computer monitors are not ideal for viewing and proofing
prints of this kind but I am interested in gathering the opinions of
anyone in this newsgroup who is bold enough to state one. You can find
a JPG of each version in:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ok28ebd3p...M2OQuylz7CgFza

I like the basic scene.

I do not see any problem with the amount of dreary sky.

To be sure, a sky full of white is not usually appealing, but there is
subtle shading and blues that makes it work.

If anything I have issues with the thick green plants in the extreme
foreground (images 1 - 3).

And of course the purple/green fringing on the branch is simply not
acceptable (Camera raw can be helpful with that).

Damn! I missed that. I thought I had got rid of all fringes.

If you shot NEFs it is a pretty simple correction in the latest version
of ACR, or in LR5.
Just zoom in to 100% at an obviously affected area. Go to Lens
Correction-Color(check *Remove Chromatic Aberration*)- adjust sliders
to neutralize.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_707.jpg

The high aspect ratio shot ("cropped") that hh posted works the best
overall, IMO - except for the purple fringe issue.

Even at full magnification in ACR the fringes are barely visible. The
very prononounced fringes in the files in Dropbox are due to my
efforts to enlarge the image size and to sharpen the result. I first
worked separately upon the greenery by cutting it out with a layer
mask which included the various flax stalks, branches and twigs
protruding into the sea and the hills behind.

The original image size was 3008 x 2000. After cropping I increased
the size to 8419 x 5953. After allowing for the cropping I estimate
that was about a 16 times increase in the number of pixels (4 times
increase on each side). Smart sharpen was then not working for me and
I sharpened the image with multiple passes of unsharp mask at 5, 4, 3,
2 and 1 pixel. That last pixel produced fringing all over the place so
I reversed it with ctrl+z. I suspect I should have undone the 2
pixel sharpen also.

The purple colour can be explained in part by the fact that the flax
stalks are deep purple.

You can find the original NEF file at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3/_DSC1370.NEF

I will play with that.

OK!
Without second guessing your intentions and actual adjustments I took a
quick look at it and did the following:
Opened in ACR, set camera profile to camera standard, set the 18-70mm
lens profile, and activated the CA correction moving the purple slider
slightly to the right.
In the Basic panel I set the black & white points, opened up the
shadows, checked highlights, & added some clarity.
In the Details panel I set the sharpening to 124% with a 1.4 radius, &
applied a mask to take the overcast out of the sharpening equation.
I then checked for spots, and guess what you have a bunch of dustspots
up in the broad expanse of the overcast. I fixed those.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_708.jpg

Opened into PS CC, in ProPhoto RGB 3008x2000 @ 360 ppi:

I went to *Image Size* and set to your 8419x5953 @360 ppi.
Selected crop tool, and set that to 8419x5953 @360 ppi, then did what I
could to come closest to your #2 crop.
For a different crop version I selected a 16:9 ratio which comes out at
8419x4736 @360.

I did no other molestation.

So here are those two crop versions with the CA taken care of:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/10ne14df8...Eric%20Project

Interesting. You brought up the greenery in the foreground from out of
the depths of darkness but you did likewise with the hills in the
background. It was that very problem that caused me to separate the
foreground from the background with a layer mask. The two regions
require quite different treatment.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens