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HDR and Stepping out a Panorama



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 7th 08, 08:03 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Alienjones[_5_]
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Posts: 13
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

clandestin_écureuil wrote:
Alienjones wrote:
http://www.douglasjames.com.au/examples/HDRatdawn.htm

For the sheep bleating in the background... Baaaaah.



Please don't let me interrupt your squabble with various posters, many
of whom I have found to make considerate, polite and informative posts,
but you have aroused my curiosity. When you refer to a "stepped out"
panorama, you are actually referring to what is usually known as a
linear panorama are you not?

When I did my second photography unit in college we were taught about
linear panoramas as against rotational or pivotal panoramas. I did one
as an assignment for credit in that course, using a mini-tripod clamped
to a luggage carrier mounted on my mountain bike, a device created by my
father. Using the tripod's inbuilt level and the bike's computer I could
move an exact distance before each shot, making the final "assembly"
less arduous and the result more consistent. The only trouble I had
initially, causing me to wait for a clear day, was with constantly
moving clouds. The outcome was pleasing and the project was interesting,
it earned me a Distinction (but not a High Distinction unfortunately).

Why do you choose to re-name a well established procedure? Calling it
"stepped out" sounds clumsy and imprecise to my thinking. Was there a
reason why you did that? Are you actually attempting to do this
hand-held and walking rather than mounted in some form?


Secret Squirrel



When I make linear panoramas I use a trolly on a fold up "rail" that
serves the same purpose as your bicycle mount did.

The "step" thing goes back nearly a year to when I suggested to Troy
Piggins he might find more challenge in making "stepped out" panoramas
than rotational ones. The trolls picked it up and ran with it. Later I
fueled the flames by posting an example I'd taken a mere 6" apart. It
was part of a 50 frame panorama.

Anyway... You are right. They are linear panoramas. I used the "stepped
out" description to separate ones taken using my purpose built rail to
the quick and dirty ones made by walking along a path.

As you probably know, there is quite a lot of work in making one, even
if you use a rail. Even more work when the camera is hand held. The
theme from the gallery of trolls has changed from "it can't be done" to
"it can be done but..." after the fanboi troll actually did some
research ...into the current flame. I didn't do it cleanly enough.

The thing about Usenet that will eventually see it's demise is the way
in which a couple of key individuals can create an environment in a
group that prevents people from engaging in discussion for fear of
attracting the attention of one of them.

Excuse me if I adopt a low tolerance to the noise in the group. No one
is immune from them or insulated from them. The best idea is to ignore
the flak. I'll happily talk to anyone (except the trolls) who has
anything photographic to talk about.
  #13  
Old July 7th 08, 05:08 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Jeff R.
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Posts: 769
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

"Alienjones" wrote in message
...

The "step" thing goes back nearly a year to when I suggested to Troy
Piggins he might find more challenge in making "stepped out" panoramas
than rotational ones. The trolls picked it up and ran with it. Later I
fueled the flames by posting an example I'd taken a mere 6" apart. It was
part of a 50 frame panorama.


Well...

In the above paragraph Douglas *finally* admits that the two Manly photos
were indeed taken from the same spot - not "stepped-out" as he had
previously insisted.

Here is a sample of the explanatory notes which accompanied Doug's post of
these two pix:

"...Either way this is a quick and dirty example of a Panorama (...)
made by walking along the pathway above the road, taking shots
at frequent intervals. Dozens of them!
This is just two images of the final picture ... ...(it's an
unfinished work) because there are another 8 or 9 images
to be stitched into the picture before I'm done with it."


Eight or nine, or dozens, or fifty? The "fifty" reference follows:


" 10 megapixel images x 5 or 6 equals a final 50 or 60
megapixel image..."

Poor Doug.
So easily confused. 50 Megapixels becomes 50 images.
"Stepped-out" becomes 6"

But wait! There's mo

" I shot these images with a Panasonic FZ50 in RAW mode,
setting it's Leica lens to 50mm which equates to about a
medium wide lens in 35mm terms"

That FZ50 of yours must have a h-u-u-u-ge sensor, Doug, for that to be the
case. I guess that would make your Panasonic a "Stepped-out-Panno"?

(...and why bother mentioning "it's (sic) Leica lens"? Who cares what
company owns the franchise? You write like someone who's terminally hung up
on brand-name envy. Nikes or Reebok, Doug?)


Still mo

" And yes! My dual CPU PC with 5 Meg of RAM labors under the
strain of the computations needed as the image grows but... "

Crikey!
My dual CPU PC would surely labour under the strain if it only had 5 Meg of
RAM.


Yes - I'm (we're) picking on you Doug - because you beg for it, with your
supercilious invective and downright dishonesty. Your libellous webpages
and your tiresome hollow threats.

All I ask is that you admit your mistakes (a few of which are mentioned
above) and apologise for being such a rude and ingracious old SOB.

Then - who knows?
We might share a friendly beer or two.
Heaven knows - I've stocked up a few slabs for a (ahem) similar sort of
occasion anyway...


Waiting, but breath not held...

--
Jeff R.




  #15  
Old July 8th 08, 01:10 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Mark Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

Annika1980 wrote:
Contrary to what you keep saying, I have NEVER claimed that your lousy
photo was my own. Yes, I did some work on it after you posted the
original and I posted the new and improved version on my site and
linked to it here. I even offered to send you an improved version if
you sent me the original. **** me for trying to be nice.

But there was never the implication that the photo was taken by me as
you claim. Your gripe at the time was that the photo on my pbase site
originally had no caption or credit or attribution to you, but instead
of asking me to properly credit you you starting yelling that I had
stolen your pic. So after listening to you cry like a bitch for a day
or so I credited it to you on the site. Nobody else (besides you) was
stupid enough to believe that I took that horrible pic because the
only ones that saw it were directed to it from here and they all knew
it was simply an improved version of your lousy photo.


Which is a perfectly accurate summary - I watched this event unfold at
the time, as I'm sure many others here did.

Since then, Mr Obsessed has ranted and raved about this incident as if
it was the end of his life. Can you imagine the sort of person who
would get so upset about an incident that didn't actually cost him
anything except (deserved) embarrassment? The fact that not a single
person has rallied to mII's completely lost (and completely trivial)
complaint would be a hint to most people. The only reason he now
persists, is his ongoing need for 15 minutes of fame, and he *so* needs
to be a 'victim'...

It's a bit late to fix your credibility problem, mII, so maybe just
change your name and try again. And try to understand what most people
seem to get - when you post images to the web, expect them to be
'reused' and reposted, especially if you post them asking for
comment/advice. As long as you are not being ripped off (and you
weren't), consider it publicity (it's all good!), and listen to the
advice. I have no problem with folk altering and reposting my images
for a good cause, and I think you'll find that applies to most here -
except you. I remember the original image well, and believe me, you
should have accepted the good advice offered to you. As it is, I
presume you have learnt nothing except how to waste your existence on
your lame 'crusade'.


But do carry on. You and Dmac seem to have a lot in common, so keep it
to this thread... (O:
  #16  
Old July 8th 08, 01:32 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Mark Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default OT HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

Let me translate the 'Dougspeak'
Alienjones wrote:
All irrelevant rantings removed

Translation:
"I am guilty of all charges, and would rather they were not brought up
again."

Boy... You are one sick puppy. Mark - or is it Charles today?

Translation:
"I like to post personal abuse, and nobody but me is allowed to use more
than identity. You may know me as Ryadia, Alienjones, Cryptopix or
about a hundred others - I am the posterboy for HYPOCRISY."

A happy snapper with a digicam trying to make out in a DSLR forum...
that he somehow has a clue while demonstrating quite the opposite.

Translation:
"I like to claim superiority, even though all my images get slammed. I
am jealous that Mark seems to avoid attracting such criticism when he
posts. I wish I knew why.."

Now why is that?

It's simple, Douglas. I don't make stupid claims. I do what I say I
will do. I don't lie. There's the difference between us.

Now, here's the questions again:

1. Why did you post those Manly pictures from exactly the same location,
pretend they were 'stepped out', promise to post the result, and then
run away?

2. Why won't you describe me, from your alleged security footage?

3. Why won't you post your solicitor's name?

4. Why haven't you posted your legal documents to Jeff?

5. Can you explain exactly what the 'CPPA' is?? You claim on your Ebay
shopfront that you are certified with them, and that the CPPA is an
Industry Association. So who are they?

I'll be repeating these requests every time you post, Doug. You are
still a cowardly liar, and prove it every time you avoid
those questions..

  #17  
Old July 8th 08, 03:49 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
m II
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 592
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

Mark Thomas wrote:
Annika1980 wrote:
Contrary to what you keep saying, I have NEVER claimed that your lousy
photo was my own. Yes, I did some work on it after you posted the
original and I posted the new and improved version on my site and
linked to it here. I even offered to send you an improved version if
you sent me the original. **** me for trying to be nice.

But there was never the implication that the photo was taken by me as
you claim. Your gripe at the time was that the photo on my pbase site
originally had no caption or credit or attribution to you, but instead
of asking me to properly credit you you starting yelling that I had
stolen your pic. So after listening to you cry like a bitch for a day
or so I credited it to you on the site. Nobody else (besides you) was
stupid enough to believe that I took that horrible pic because the
only ones that saw it were directed to it from here and they all knew
it was simply an improved version of your lousy photo.


Which is a perfectly accurate summary - I watched this event unfold at
the time, as I'm sure many others here did.


Ok, Bret.

I asked to get accreditation. You conveniently forget that. Here is my
posting. It's rather polite.

===========================
So..we can now see you in the crib..happy?
As an aside, wouldn't some sort of attribution be in order?

http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/72067191

May lead people to believe the photographer isn't who it actually is.

mike II
===========================


Then Bret proceeded to attribute the picture to "Some asshole"



mike

--
Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage, this filter
blocks all postings from Gmail, Google Mail and Google Groups.

http://improve-usenet.org/
  #18  
Old July 8th 08, 04:23 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
clandestin_écureuil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

wrote:
SS, it's quite dififcult to explain exactly why Douglas gets this
response, if you have not seen his fascinating and lengthy history..
But if interested, read on. Be patient, and make up your own mind
*after* visiting the links - beware of taking anything Doug says on
face value (same for me - judge for yourself!). You'll note that
Doug's answer to you didn't include any references - mine does...

On Jul 7, 4:38 pm, clandestin_écureuil wrote:
Please don't let me interrupt your squabble with various posters, many of
whom I have found to make considerate, polite and informative posts


Thanks! (O:

you have aroused my curiosity. When you refer to a "stepped out" panorama,
you are actually referring to what is usually known as a linear panorama
are you not?


Yes, he is. Here's the original thread:
http://groups.google.com.au/group/au...d1c0259d43619f
Pretty heavy going, and you will see that there has been quite a bit
of ill feeeling surrounding Doug in the past..
Anyway, to stay ontopic - the page he offered up to demonstrate the
concept showed a scene that was a seriously flawed candidate for a
linear panorama (see link below). Further more, his sample 'stepped
out' images were very obviously taken from exactly the same vantage
point, with merely a slight rotation.. The page received a lot of
very negative feedback, and, presumably because of this, Douglas
pulled the page from view. Douglas has a history of this type of
behavior. Ie making extraordinary and often false claims and then
pulling the pages down and running away.

So the evidence was gone... Or so he thought! Because of his
'history', several of us now grab copies of Douglas' pages, just in
case they are withdrawn. And he
http://www.mendosus.com/photography/doug.html
you will find Doug's original 'stepped out panorama' page reposted by
Jeff R (another of those considerate folk you refer to!), along with
copious explanatory notes at left. You'll note Douglas was rather
scathing in his comments about another poster, "Atheist Chaplain".
Yet AC had posted absolutely no such thing - Douglas had confused him
with someone else! But Douglas has refused to apologise. That's the
sort of guy he is....

Note the complex scene that Doug suggests would be a good candidate
for a linear panorama. Note how his two sample images (of the alleged
50) are *not* even taken from different vantage points!! Note the
tone of the page, and finally note that Douglas has *not* returned to
post the promised result. I've even offered to supply real source
images of this very scene, taken to Douglas' specifications, for
anyone who wants to try. No takers, strangely. (O: Do you wish to
have a go? Here are two:
http://www.marktphoto.com/examples/pano_moved.jpg
I have more images if you want, and at larger sizes... but I think it
is patently clear that this sort of scene simply *cannot* be stitched
as a linear. Douglas has not proved otherwise.

Amusingly, some time after that initial thread, Douglas posted this:
http://www.douglasjames.com.au/examples/4theidiots.htm
to 'prove' he could do a linear panorama and show us 'idiots' a thing
or two... As you can see, he avoided the original scene. And when
you look closely, that one is.. oh.. a little less than
satisfactory...? It is dissected in detail he
http://groups.google.com.au/group/au...35da59cde7a455

When I did my second photography unit in college we were taught about
linear panoramas as against rotational or pivotal panoramas. I did one as
an assignment for credit in that course, using a mini-tripod clamped to a
luggage carrier mounted on my mountain bike, a device created by my father.
Using the tripod's inbuilt level and the bike's computer I could move an
exact distance before each shot, making the final "assembly" less arduous
and the result more consistent. The only trouble I had initially, causing
me to wait for a clear day, was with constantly moving clouds. The outcome
was pleasing and the project was interesting, it earned me a Distinction
(but not a High Distinction unfortunately).


Do you still have it? Why not post it if you do... We are all
actually quite gentle on posters who do not make silly claims about
their work..!


I don't but you an be certain that my parents do. They keep everything. It
wasn't spectacular, rather boring, but a technical challenge. The technique
has no real use, but it does teach in the sense that it makes you very
aware of a number of issues, perspective and lighting (source) being two of
the primary issues.


Why do you choose to re-name a well established procedure? Calling it
"stepped out" sounds clumsy and imprecise to my thinking.


Indeed. We can only presume Douglas had not heard of the correct
name..

Was there a
reason why you did that? Are you actually attempting to do this hand-held
and walking rather than mounted in some form?


He said this "(the photographer) may be better off walking and
snapping shots to stich (sic) than the recent method of using a
rotating head on a tripod". At no time did he refer to the potential
problems caused by perspective changes, nor did he point out the fact
that linear panoramams are generally only useful when there is a
relatively 'linear' or flat scene without a lot of fore-/mid-/back-
ground clutter, depending on the plane of interest.

Don't get me wrong, linears have their place, but Doug's suggestions
were so wide of the mark, it all had to be challenged.

So, we still await Douglas' masterpiece showing all those yachts and
masts.. (O: Perhaps, as he is talking to you, you can convince him
to show us his expertise, as promised..

cheers,

mt


Yes, well having looked at the two images in question I do agree, they were
taken from the same point. If you drop a perpendicular line from the pole
to the white line on the road edge they intersect the line in the same
place. I just dropped those two images into Photoshop and used the line
tool to precisely verify that. There is no way that they were "stepped out"
unless he was using a very long lens and even then they would only be
inches apart.


I wonder why he did it? It isn't hard to do a linear panorama, though not
with that background.

I always wanted to do a panorama of a Carousel, keeping the camera mounted
in one place and rotating the carousel by one horse for each shot. In close
using a long lens with a close-up lens fitted for depth of field etc., or
maybe rig a "blue screen" system with clothesline and bedsheets behind the
horses. It would be an interesting image, all the horses in a straight line.

Secret Squirrel



--

Ingrid Rose

clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com
  #19  
Old July 8th 08, 08:07 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Alienjones[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

Annika1980 wrote:
On Jul 7, 10:02 am, m II wrote:
You have already posted here that you took the picture and put it on
your 'experimental' site. Then you wrote that the link you posted to my
picture on YOUR web site was ok, as in your opinion, there is a limited
viewing audience here. Then you said it wasn't really theft because it
was a very bad picture.

I also have the original name calling you posted when I first asked you
to attribute the picture. Doing one minute of Photoshop work on the
picture did NOT make it yours. You know that.


Contrary to what you keep saying, I have NEVER claimed that your lousy
photo was my own. Yes, I did some work on it after you posted the
original and I posted the new and improved version on my site and
linked to it here. I even offered to send you an improved version if
you sent me the original. **** me for trying to be nice.

But there was never the implication that the photo was taken by me as
you claim. Your gripe at the time was that the photo on my pbase site
originally had no caption or credit or attribution to you, but instead
of asking me to properly credit you you starting yelling that I had
stolen your pic. So after listening to you cry like a bitch for a day
or so I credited it to you on the site. Nobody else (besides you) was
stupid enough to believe that I took that horrible pic because the
only ones that saw it were directed to it from here and they all knew
it was simply an improved version of your lousy photo.

If you want to keep stalking me then that's your right, but that poor
horse was beaten to death years ago. You just make yourself look like
a bigger idiot with each post. Kinda like Rita.


You don't seem to get the point Bret. Copyright. That's the word. The
photographer has a right to say what will and will not be done with his
work ands by whom.

You can't take someone else's photo for any reason without them either
offering them to you or making it known you can have them. Ethics, I
know is something that seems to have variable interpretations amongst
people who never started out with any. It's not too late now to discover
them and in all seriousness Bret, you will be a better liked person if
you have some.

What you need to do to appease Mike, is simply not try and grandstand
your photoshop skills at his expense. Step up to the plate and
apologize. I'm sure he is man enough to accept it.

Then you can start making some inroads with others you've ****ed off
since you learnt to talk. Maybe get some community spirit and put your
name down for Santa a the local Wallmart so all the kids in the
neighborhood can come and **** on you the way you **** on every one you
come in contact with. I'll even send a shoot crew over at my expense to
cover it! ROTFL.

  #20  
Old July 8th 08, 08:27 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Alienjones[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default HDR and Stepping out a Panorama

m II wrote:
Mark Thomas wrote:
Annika1980 wrote:
Contrary to what you keep saying, I have NEVER claimed that your lousy
photo was my own. Yes, I did some work on it after you posted the
original and I posted the new and improved version on my site and
linked to it here. I even offered to send you an improved version if
you sent me the original. **** me for trying to be nice.

But there was never the implication that the photo was taken by me as
you claim. Your gripe at the time was that the photo on my pbase site
originally had no caption or credit or attribution to you, but instead
of asking me to properly credit you you starting yelling that I had
stolen your pic. So after listening to you cry like a bitch for a day
or so I credited it to you on the site. Nobody else (besides you) was
stupid enough to believe that I took that horrible pic because the
only ones that saw it were directed to it from here and they all knew
it was simply an improved version of your lousy photo.

Which is a perfectly accurate summary - I watched this event unfold at
the time, as I'm sure many others here did.


Ok, Bret.

I asked to get accreditation. You conveniently forget that. Here is my
posting. It's rather polite.

===========================
So..we can now see you in the crib..happy?
As an aside, wouldn't some sort of attribution be in order?

http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/72067191

May lead people to believe the photographer isn't who it actually is.

mike II
===========================


Then Bret proceeded to attribute the picture to "Some asshole"



mike


There is in Tennessee a known and identifiable population of people who
are descended from "kissing cousins". I think the term is applied inbred
idiots who think having sex with their cousins is great fun 'cause they
won't get caught.

These idiots take offense at what the rest of the world considers
politeness and correctness. They seem to have formulated some kind of
behavioral pattern that until the Internet gave them access to the rest
of the world, went un-noticed by normal people.

It seems we have a couple or three idiots in Australia with the same
attitude. Not bad I suppose. 4 idiots out of 20 million who read news
groups. It's just their volume is turned up so high to try and blast
everyone else into submission, they are noticed at all. Like Chattanooga
is the center of the universe ROTFL.

In all seriousness Mike... You simply can't expect a jerk like Bret
Douglas to have any principals or morels much less any ethics. It's a
sad fact that when you filter out the idiots, there is little or no
traffic in this and AUS.PHOTO. Do that and neither he nor the trio from
AU will be a bother to you again. It must **** them off big time when I
don't answer... Ha, ha, ha.
 




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