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Does a Contrasty Neg Condemn Me To a Life of Puppetry



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 29th 04, 04:45 AM
Alan Smithee
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Default Does a Contrasty Neg Condemn Me To a Life of Puppetry


"Donald Qualls" wrote in message
news:xc3Yc.84832$mD.72353@attbi_s02...
Alan Smithee wrote:

I'm going to attach the example. I'm not sure if this will show up since
this is not a binary group. The first is roughly what it looks like on

my
monitor (calibrated with OptiCal) and the "b" version is roughly what I

get
in the darkroom.


Would have been better to post a link to a webspace somewhere with those
images -- but...

This looks to me like a fine example of why people consider TMX fussy;
it continues to record detail long past what you can print, so the
negatives look okay to the (uncalibrated) eye, but are very hard to print.

.....
uh, where do I get me one of those eye calibrators you're talking about? ;^j


  #2  
Old August 29th 04, 04:46 AM
Alan Smithee
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Try spilt filtering. You could try burning the clouds in with a low
contrast filter. It won't hurt to try.

I'm going to try split filtering.


  #3  
Old August 29th 04, 04:47 AM
Alan Smithee
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Just burn in the sky. I do this all the time with similar negatives.

You can also try split-filtering. That is, when burning in the sky, use a
lower-grade contrast filter (or more yellow in a dichro head).


I'm using Kodak Polycontrast filters fitted over the lens. I do have a
dichro head as well. Is it better to use the color head to control contrast?


  #4  
Old August 29th 04, 11:28 AM
Claudio Bonavolta
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"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:kuUXc.227988$M95.163578@pd7tw1no...
I'm dumb but I can learn. I was scanning some black and white TMX I shot

in
Glacier Nat. Park on my honeymoon a couple of years ago and noticed that
some of the negs looked quite good on the monitor. One shot in particular
had some dark spruce trees in the foreground with beautiful detail in the
shadows, some grayish mountains at the mid point, and in the background

was
a roiling cloudly sky (but not sunny) with interesting highlights.

"Great,"
I thought "this one will look fantastic on the wall, such drama, what
passion I possess...". Down to my newly minted darkroom to print this baby
up and marvel at my genius....three hours later after fighting with test
strips and finally resorting to crude hand puppetry. I realized that the
foreground looks good with 10 secs. exposure while the sky doesn't start
showing up with any detail until 50 secs. So what now? Monitor good.
Darkroom print bad. Why? I now realize a yellow filter on the original

scene
(to pimp up the clouds a bit) probably wouldn't have hurted. I know I need
to lower the contrast somehow. Low contrast paper? Better masking? Or

should
I have been N-2 or -3 from that start? Could I have done something else
wrong?


Nothing exceptional, you just recorded a particularly wide range of
luminosity ...
You might have used a filter to reduce sky's brightness but unles you can
re-do these pictures easily you have to work with your actual neg.
From what you write, it seems you have the details in the neg, so you *can*
print them !
It's just a matter of technique:
- dodging/burning, maybe at different grades
- flashing
- silver masking
- manual masking (acetate, ...)
- bleaching/intensifying
- ...

I would suggest two books that will help you improve your skills:
- "The Photographer's Master Printing Course" by Tim Rudman (ISBN
0-240-80324-8)
- "Way Beyong Monochrome" by Ralph W. Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse (ISBN
0-86343-354-5)
http://www.darkroomagic.com and http://www.ktphotonics.co.uk have some free
chapters extracted from this book.

"Post Exposure" by Ctein (ISBN 0-240-80299-3) has also a chapter dedicated
to silver masking maily for color work but the principle is very similar in
B/W.
Some links to silver masking:
- http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unsharp/
- http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/fr/photo/masking101.htm
Both are mainly meant for large format, the only difference for 35mm work is
that it is pretty difficult to position the masks and dust is more of a
concern.

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch



  #5  
Old August 29th 04, 12:43 PM
Nick Zentena
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Alan Smithee wrote:


Just burn in the sky. I do this all the time with similar negatives.

You can also try split-filtering. That is, when burning in the sky, use a
lower-grade contrast filter (or more yellow in a dichro head).


I'm using Kodak Polycontrast filters fitted over the lens. I do have a
dichro head as well. Is it better to use the color head to control contrast?



I'd use the head because I find it less painfull. Others seem to find it
the other way. See what works best for you.

Nick
  #6  
Old August 29th 04, 01:53 PM
Claudio Bonavolta
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"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:zlcYc.253854$J06.239049@pd7tw2no...


Just burn in the sky. I do this all the time with similar negatives.

You can also try split-filtering. That is, when burning in the sky, use

a
lower-grade contrast filter (or more yellow in a dichro head).


I'm using Kodak Polycontrast filters fitted over the lens. I do have a
dichro head as well. Is it better to use the color head to control

contrast?

I do prefer to use my color head for several reasons (the major being you
can adapt it to every type of paper) but you have to calibrate it.

The following page gives you an idea:
http://www.butzi.net/articles/vcce.htm
The already mentioned book "Way Beyong Monochrome" by Lambrecht/Woodhouse
has also a chapter on this.
Both use double filtration to keep exposure times similar between grades.

My approach is somewhat different as I use single fltration and a
computer-linked timer that does the exposure change easily:
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/labsoftV3.htm

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch


  #7  
Old August 29th 04, 04:31 PM
Donald Qualls
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Alan Smithee wrote:
....
uh, where do I get me one of those eye calibrators you're talking about? ;^j



You've already got one in your darkroom -- it's more commonly called an
enlarger. You calibrate your eyeball by making a few hundred (or a few
thousand) prints from all kinds of negatives, learning the techniques
and doing what you have to do in order to get good prints from negatives
of important (to you) subjects, even if the negatives aren't perfect
(and many of them won't be, even if your first name is Ansel and your
last name is Adams and you aren't dead).

The real trick, though, with TMX and to a lesser extent TMY is learning
to control exposure and contrast to produce printable negatives, instead
of negatives that record all the detail in the scene but have too much
contrast range to print.

Oh, BTW, it occurred to me, there may be another way to get a good print
from your contrasty negative: if you can make a very faithful (i.e.
identical contrast) enlarged negative, you might find it a very good
negative from which to print with salted paper, platinum, cyanotype,
etc. -- most printing-out processes are "self masking"; that is, the
image density, by appearing during exposure, tends to reduce exposure in
the darkest (shadow) areas of the print in proportion to density, and
thus reduce contrast. That makes a contrasty negative desirable for
these processes, even at a level that would be quite difficult to print
well with silver gelatin on graded or multigrade paper.

Unfortunately, contact printing from 35 mm film gives a print most
people find too small to view comfortably -- hence the need for a
faithful enlarged negative. If you can still find some Kodak Printing
Film (if I've recalled the product name correctly), it's just the ticket
for this; you can handle it in safelight, it has working speed similar
to projection type printing papers, and due to some kind of chemical
magic it develops as a positive (that is, light exposure makes it clear,
it's black if developed without exposure) in normal print developers
like Dektol. Just grain focus, put the stuff in your easel, expose and
develop, and you have an enlarged negative -- and it has the latitude to
record the kind of negative you're working with.

Once you have an 8x10 negative, a contact print on salted paper,
cyanotype, or platinum will give a full gradation on a scene with that
kind of contrast (exposure of those processes requires a few minutes in
direct sunlight or under a high powered UV source, or a long time under
a "normal" fluorescent UV blacklight).

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

  #8  
Old August 30th 04, 12:30 AM
Dan Quinn
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Donald Qualls wrote

I'm not even sure lith film is available any more; all such
work done commercially is digital now.


There is a great variety and huge amounts of litho
films available. For two sources check Freestyle and Valley
Litho Supply.
A Freestyle Arista litho film is recommended for use when
makeing direct negatives; one method I believe you have not yet
expounded upon which can be used to correct for excessive contrast.
An article at www.unblinkingeye.com will explain.
Also, at that site will be found information on SLIMT. SLIMT
is too simple and effective to pass up. The technique is at the
top of my to-master list.
A third method you've not mentioned is the full gray scale
lith printing of the negative. Dan
  #9  
Old August 31st 04, 07:11 PM
Leigh Marrin/KM6JE
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PGG_ wrote:
The only difference between a diffuser and condensor is about a grade of
paper.


And a gallon bit bucket full of redundant ASCII from Mike Scarpitti..
 




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