Do I really need monitor calibration if....

I'm not too critical about color but I'd like my prints to be close to what
the monitor displays. The problem is, only one of my three printers is out
of whack so I suspect monitor calibration is not going to help.

Using a Dell laptop the colors and brightness on my screen are very close
to what my Canon i850 prints (source file is JPEG large from a Canon 1D). I
tried on my wife's Canon i450 and the same thing - a very close match with
my monitor.

But when I send the same file to my brand new Epson 2200, the print is much,
much darker.

Just for tests, I took the same file and boosted the "Brightness" control in
Photoshop CS by a value of 25 and then the Epson was somewhat closer, in
brightness but not color, to what I see on the screen and what the Canon
prints.

So is monitor calibration really going to help? I think instead I need some
sort of curve for my printer, while my monitor is fine. If I did calibrate
the monitor to match the Epson printer, my screen would probably be so dark
it would be hard to see the menus.

Here is my workflow:

For 13x19 print on Epson Professional Media Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
resized image by cropping to 11x17.

From Photoshop CS , boost Brightness by value of 25.

Choose Print with Preview. Click on Page Setup.

Click on Printer and choose Epson 2200 and click OK

Set paper size to Super B (13x19 in), choose Orientation landscape and click
OK.

I set width to 17. inches

Choose Color management: Document sRGB

Print space: Profiles: RGB IEC61966-2.1, Intent: Relative Colormetric

Check box for Use Black Point Compensation

Click Print button

Verify again printer is correct

Color management choose ICM

ICC profile choose 'Applied by printer software', Epson Standard,
Perceptual, SP2200 Premium Glossy_PK

Uncheck Fast printing and edge smoothing

Paper and quality options: Sheet, Premium Glossy Photo Paper, SuperPhoto -
2880dpi, Super B, Landscape, print preview.

On Page Layout tab choose Centered

Click OK to begin printing.

Dave R knows who wrote:
I'm not too critical about color but I'd like my prints to be close to what
the monitor displays. The problem is, only one of my three printers is out
of whack so I suspect monitor calibration is not going to help.
snip
I don't think you need to calibrate the monitor more. You have to set up each printer to match the monitor. The procedure
depends on the image editing software you are printing from. For example, here is a method for Paint Shop Pro:
http://www.campratty.com/1faq/faqpages/b9a.html.

Hi there.

You are correct it is not your Monitor Profile, that is causing the problem,

It is because you are converting twice, once in PS and again in the Printer.
You also seem to be using the wrong profile.

From what I can gather, most people do the following.

In Print with Preview

Source Space - should be Document, and the profile showing should be the
one PS is using as its Work Space, sRGB or Adobe RGB.

Print Space - should be the Epson Printer Profile, specific to the paper you
are about to print on. ( 2200 Premium Glossy)

Intent - Relative Colourimetric or Perceptual according to taste.

Use Black Point.

In the Printer Driver Dialogue.

Set Colour Ink, Orientation as usual.

In Media drop down list - choose the paper you are about to use.

Go to Custom then Advanced and choose "No Colour Management".

Uncheck High Speed, Smooth edges, Finest Detail, etc and select 2880Dpi.

Then click Print.

PS will now do the conversion from its Working Space (sRGB) to the Printer's
Profile, and send that Data to the printer, which will print what PS has
sent without making any colour conversions. This should give as accurate a
Print as is possible.

OR - There is a different way.

In PS Select Document in Working Space as before, but in Print Space select
Colour Management by Printer.

In the Printer dialogue you will then be able to choose any of the Fancy
options, but "Automatic" will probably give you a very reasonable result.

Whatever you do, do not combine both of these ways, because then PS will do
the conversion and when the Printer gets the Data it will apply another
similar set of conversions to that info, and you will get wrong colours.

ICM is Windows version of Colour Management, and you do not need another set
of conversions being applied.

Hope this helps, but CM is a difficult subject, and the obvious choices are
often not the correct ones.

Roy G



"Dave R knows who" wrote in message
...
I'm not too critical about color but I'd like my prints to be close to
what the monitor displays. The problem is, only one of my three printers
is out of whack so I suspect monitor calibration is not going to help.

Using a Dell laptop the colors and brightness on my screen are very close
to what my Canon i850 prints (source file is JPEG large from a Canon 1D).
I tried on my wife's Canon i450 and the same thing - a very close match
with my monitor.

But when I send the same file to my brand new Epson 2200, the print is
much, much darker.

Just for tests, I took the same file and boosted the "Brightness" control
in Photoshop CS by a value of 25 and then the Epson was somewhat closer,
in brightness but not color, to what I see on the screen and what the
Canon prints.

So is monitor calibration really going to help? I think instead I need
some sort of curve for my printer, while my monitor is fine. If I did
calibrate the monitor to match the Epson printer, my screen would probably
be so dark it would be hard to see the menus.

Here is my workflow:

For 13x19 print on Epson Professional Media Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
resized image by cropping to 11x17.

From Photoshop CS , boost Brightness by value of 25.

Choose Print with Preview. Click on Page Setup.

Click on Printer and choose Epson 2200 and click OK

Set paper size to Super B (13x19 in), choose Orientation landscape and
click OK.

I set width to 17. inches

Choose Color management: Document sRGB

Print space: Profiles: RGB IEC61966-2.1, Intent: Relative Colormetric

Check box for Use Black Point Compensation

Click Print button

Verify again printer is correct

Color management choose ICM

ICC profile choose 'Applied by printer software', Epson Standard,
Perceptual, SP2200 Premium Glossy_PK

Uncheck Fast printing and edge smoothing

Paper and quality options: Sheet, Premium Glossy Photo Paper, SuperPhoto -
2880dpi, Super B, Landscape, print preview.

On Page Layout tab choose Centered

Click OK to begin printing.

Awesome, just awesome. I've got great prints now!


"Roy" wrote in message
...
Hi there.

You are correct it is not your Monitor Profile, that is causing the
problem,

It is because you are converting twice, once in PS and again in the
Printer. You also seem to be using the wrong profile.

From what I can gather, most people do the following.

In Print with Preview

Source Space - should be Document, and the profile showing should be the
one PS is using as its Work Space, sRGB or Adobe RGB.

Print Space - should be the Epson Printer Profile, specific to the paper
you are about to print on. ( 2200 Premium Glossy)

Intent - Relative Colourimetric or Perceptual according to taste.

Use Black Point.

In the Printer Driver Dialogue.

Set Colour Ink, Orientation as usual.

In Media drop down list - choose the paper you are about to use.

Go to Custom then Advanced and choose "No Colour Management".

Uncheck High Speed, Smooth edges, Finest Detail, etc and select 2880Dpi.

Then click Print.

PS will now do the conversion from its Working Space (sRGB) to the
Printer's Profile, and send that Data to the printer, which will print
what PS has sent without making any colour conversions. This should give
as accurate a Print as is possible.

OR - There is a different way.

In PS Select Document in Working Space as before, but in Print Space
select Colour Management by Printer.

In the Printer dialogue you will then be able to choose any of the Fancy
options, but "Automatic" will probably give you a very reasonable result.

Whatever you do, do not combine both of these ways, because then PS will
do the conversion and when the Printer gets the Data it will apply another
similar set of conversions to that info, and you will get wrong colours.

ICM is Windows version of Colour Management, and you do not need another
set of conversions being applied.

Hope this helps, but CM is a difficult subject, and the obvious choices
are often not the correct ones.

Roy G



"Dave R knows who" wrote in message
...
I'm not too critical about color but I'd like my prints to be close to
what the monitor displays. The problem is, only one of my three printers
is out of whack so I suspect monitor calibration is not going to help.

Using a Dell laptop the colors and brightness on my screen are very
close to what my Canon i850 prints (source file is JPEG large from a
Canon 1D). I tried on my wife's Canon i450 and the same thing - a very
close match with my monitor.

But when I send the same file to my brand new Epson 2200, the print is
much, much darker.

Just for tests, I took the same file and boosted the "Brightness" control
in Photoshop CS by a value of 25 and then the Epson was somewhat closer,
in brightness but not color, to what I see on the screen and what the
Canon prints.

So is monitor calibration really going to help? I think instead I need
some sort of curve for my printer, while my monitor is fine. If I did
calibrate the monitor to match the Epson printer, my screen would
probably be so dark it would be hard to see the menus.

Here is my workflow:

For 13x19 print on Epson Professional Media Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
resized image by cropping to 11x17.

From Photoshop CS , boost Brightness by value of 25.

Choose Print with Preview. Click on Page Setup.

Click on Printer and choose Epson 2200 and click OK

Set paper size to Super B (13x19 in), choose Orientation landscape and
click OK.

I set width to 17. inches

Choose Color management: Document sRGB

Print space: Profiles: RGB IEC61966-2.1, Intent: Relative Colormetric

Check box for Use Black Point Compensation

Click Print button

Verify again printer is correct

Color management choose ICM

ICC profile choose 'Applied by printer software', Epson Standard,
Perceptual, SP2200 Premium Glossy_PK

Uncheck Fast printing and edge smoothing

Paper and quality options: Sheet, Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
SuperPhoto - 2880dpi, Super B, Landscape, print preview.

On Page Layout tab choose Centered

Click OK to begin printing.

THANK YOU!

Good. Glad I could help.

Have you tried making these prints at 1440? That is what I use most of the
time, it does speed up the process and saves on Ink. Some people I know,
never use any more than 720 for big Prints. I should add that I don't have a
2200, only a 1290, but they are both very good printers, and the CM
principles are the same for all Printers.

Perhaps you should now take a look at your workflow for your other Printers,
you may have been applying similar errors, but might just have been lucky
enough to have them cancel one another out.

Roy G


"Dave R knows who" wrote in message
...
THANK YOU!

"Roy" wrote in message
...
Good. Glad I could help.

Have you tried making these prints at 1440? That is what I use most of
the time, it does speed up the process and saves on Ink. Some people I
know, never use any more than 720 for big Prints. I should add that I
don't have a 2200, only a 1290, but they are both very good printers, and
the CM principles are the same for all Printers.

Perhaps you should now take a look at your workflow for your other
Printers, you may have been applying similar errors, but might just have
been lucky enough to have them cancel one another out.

Roy G


I did try the 1440 previously with good results (doing the old dumb workflow
with +25 on the brightness), but last night I needed them to be 'the best
they could be' for a sale so I stuck with 2880. Shipping the prints today.
If you got a paypal address I'll send you $5 for your help!

Thanks Dave, but a few helpful words does not cost anything.

We Photographers are usually quite generous, often too generous, with our
advice on "How to do it Better"

One of our local Pubs has an engraved mirror behind the bar. It says " A
Good Pint - Good Food - and a few Kind Words". A visitor to the area went
in, ordered a Pint and a Meat Pie. He started on his Pint and remarked to
the Barmaid - "I've got the Pint and the Food, all I need is the Kind Words"
Her reply was "Dinnae eat the Pie"

You might be able to help me out some time.

Roy G.


"Dave R knows who" wrote in message
news

"Roy" wrote in message
...
Good. Glad I could help.

Have you tried making these prints at 1440? That is what I use most of
the time, it does speed up the process and saves on Ink. Some people I
know, never use any more than 720 for big Prints. I should add that I
don't have a 2200, only a 1290, but they are both very good printers, and
the CM principles are the same for all Printers.

Perhaps you should now take a look at your workflow for your other
Printers, you may have been applying similar errors, but might just have
been lucky enough to have them cancel one another out.

Roy G


I did try the 1440 previously with good results (doing the old dumb
workflow with +25 on the brightness), but last night I needed them to be
'the best they could be' for a sale so I stuck with 2880. Shipping the
prints today. If you got a paypal address I'll send you $5 for your help!

Dave R knows who wrote:

I'm not too critical about color but I'd like my prints to be close to what
the monitor displays. The problem is, only one of my three printers is out
of whack so I suspect monitor calibration is not going to help.

Using a Dell laptop the colors and brightness on my screen are very close
to what my Canon i850 prints (source file is JPEG large from a Canon 1D). I
tried on my wife's Canon i450 and the same thing - a very close match with
my monitor.

But when I send the same file to my brand new Epson 2200, the print is much,
much darker.

Just for tests, I took the same file and boosted the "Brightness" control in
Photoshop CS by a value of 25 and then the Epson was somewhat closer, in
brightness but not color, to what I see on the screen and what the Canon
prints.

So is monitor calibration really going to help? I think instead I need some
sort of curve for my printer, while my monitor is fine. If I did calibrate
the monitor to match the Epson printer, my screen would probably be so dark
it would be hard to see the menus.

Doesn't sound like a monitor calibration issue, there are some more
settings in the epson driver.

Here's a couple great pages:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_1.htm
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7..._print_mac.htm

In particular, that second one shows exactly how to configure an epson
printer.



Here is my workflow:

For 13x19 print on Epson Professional Media Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
resized image by cropping to 11x17.

From Photoshop CS , boost Brightness by value of 25.

Choose Print with Preview. Click on Page Setup.

Click on Printer and choose Epson 2200 and click OK

Set paper size to Super B (13x19 in), choose Orientation landscape and click
OK.

I set width to 17. inches

Choose Color management: Document sRGB

Print space: Profiles: RGB IEC61966-2.1, Intent: Relative Colormetric


Should be sRGB rather than the IEC thing?



Check box for Use Black Point Compensation

Click Print button

Verify again printer is correct

Color management choose ICM

ICC profile choose 'Applied by printer software', Epson Standard,
Perceptual, SP2200 Premium Glossy_PK

Sounds like you got the correct Epson profile but maybe need to download
a closer match? I'm not seeing these options where you say but in the
print-with-preview (show more options checked):

Source: sRGB

Print Space: Epson [your model] premium glossy

What I do see from the print button properties advanced... is the
Color Controls versus No Color Adjustment and supposedly if I have set
up my printer profile I shouldn't need color controls but when I choose
that option, it's too dark as yours is so I've gone back to Color
Controls. Perhaps the Gamma 1.8 is not correct because the monitor
should be set to 2.2, hmm but that is only available using Color
Controls which looks pretty close anyways.

After running a print with that setting, I'm pretty happy with this
setup, it has more saturation (closer to the monitor) and is about the
right darkness. Now I'm just about out of yellow & cyan ink after all
these tests though grin.


Uncheck Fast printing and edge smoothing

Paper and quality options: Sheet, Premium Glossy Photo Paper, SuperPhoto -
2880dpi, Super B, Landscape, print preview.


Yeah I had no idea there was the option to print slower (better
presumably) & at twice the dpi hidden in the custom advanced button!
I've just got a cheap little C80 & hadn't bothered finding these
settings till today or color management on the printer end. It wasn't
too bad to figure out though & things look much better.


On Page Layout tab choose Centered

Click OK to begin printing.

Hi Paul.

My first reply to Dave gave the Workflow most people use, and he seems to
agree with me that it does work. I can make good quality prints first time,
and only ever need to reprint to correct faults (very rarely colour balance)
I did not notice while I was editing.

It is VERY IMPORTANT to select No Colour Management in the Epson Advanced
Print Dialogue, otherwise the conversions will happen twice. (Once in PS and
again in the Printer)

The second option shown stops PS making the conversions, and allows the
Printer to do them, so you can then Play with the fancy settings.

It is also advisable to setup Proof in PS View Proof Set Up to the
Printer/Paper Profile, so that you will be able to get an impression of how
the Picture will look after it has been printed. Only do the setting up when
no Image is open in PS.

For Print work, it is advisable to select Adobe RGB as the Work Space for
Photoshop, (see PS Edit Colour Settings), as Adobe RGB has a Gamut more
suited to Inkjets. The colour in sRGB is a bit more restricted, and is
really only suited for Electronic Display. Some people nowadays are using
Pro-Photo RGB because it has an ever wider Gamut, and suits the newer Ink
sets available, (Epson Ultra Chrome, etc).

The pages you supplied on Ian Lyons Site are very good for learning about
Colour Management, and I do advise using them, but they are very detailed,
and it is a bit difficult to extract a simple workflow.

Give my workflow a try, and see what you think.

Roy G


"paul" wrote in message
...
Dave R knows who wrote:

I'm not too critical about color but I'd like my prints to be close to
what the monitor displays. The problem is, only one of my three printers
is out of whack so I suspect monitor calibration is not going to help.
--------- snip----------
settings in the epson driver.

Here's a couple great pages:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_1.htm
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7..._print_mac.htm

In particular, that second one shows exactly how to configure an epson
printer.



Here is my workflow:

For 13x19 print on Epson Professional Media Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
resized image by cropping to 11x17.
-----------------snip----------------------

Print space: Profiles: RGB IEC61966-2.1, Intent: Relative Colormetric


Should be sRGB rather than the IEC thing?



Check box for Use Black Point Compensation

-----------------snip-----------------------
ICC profile choose 'Applied by printer software', Epson Standard,
Perceptual, SP2200 Premium Glossy_PK

Sounds like you got the correct Epson profile but maybe need to download a
closer match? I'm not seeing these options where you say but in the
print-with-preview (show more options checked):

Source: sRGB

Print Space: Epson [your model] premium glossy

What I do see from the print button properties advanced... is the
Color Controls versus No Color Adjustment and supposedly if I have set up
my printer profile I shouldn't need color controls but when I choose that
option, it's too dark as yours is so I've gone back to Color Controls.
Perhaps the Gamma 1.8 is not correct because the monitor should be set to
2.2, hmm but that is only available using Color Controls which looks
pretty close anyways.

After running a print with that setting, I'm pretty happy with this setup,
it has more saturation (closer to the monitor) and is about the right
darkness. Now I'm just about out of yellow & cyan ink after all these
tests though grin.


Uncheck Fast printing and edge smoothing

Paper and quality options: Sheet, Premium Glossy Photo Paper,
SuperPhoto - 2880dpi, Super B, Landscape, print preview.


Yeah I had no idea there was the option to print slower (better
presumably) & at twice the dpi hidden in the custom advanced button! I've
just got a cheap little C80 & hadn't bothered finding these settings till
today or color management on the printer end. It wasn't too bad to figure
out though & things look much better.


On Page Layout tab choose Centered

Click OK to begin printing.