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  #11  
Old November 13th 17, 10:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,650
Default Cheap Apple

On 2017-11-13 10:41, PeterN wrote:
On 11/13/2017 2:56 AM, android wrote:


Lots of folks are curious in what step Apple will take next with Mac
hard and software. If you are interested in the current family of
systems it might be a good idea to take a step back and see where they
are heading. Will there be separate mac- and i- OSs or will they merge?
Will the hardware merge so that we will see ARM processors on Macs? That
will be sorted out then the new Mac Pro system arrives. Until then the
serious hobbyist with other obligations and limited resources could be
wise to wait and see if Apples new offerings due in a year or so just
see if is that is that they want. They do charge for the gear, you know!


Good advice


No. It's crappy advice. Apple will not merge iOS and MacOS despite
greater and greater integration and interoperability between them
(across apps via iCloud and local comms services such as handover).

What they will do (and almost certainly have running in the back room)
is move Macs from intel to ARM processors. But this will be very
transparent to users and more so than during the past quite smooth
transition from PowerPC to intel.

Those developers who completely adopted XCode/Cocoa will be able to
distribute their code to the new ARM world with nary a change to their
code - so no impact on late intel adopters, contrary to the nonsense
above. This will be even smoother than the Rosetta supported PPC/intel
transition.

The main difference is that iOS is mainly a "consumption and capture"
device whereas a Mac is a mainly "workstation and creation" device.
There is overlap (when isn't there?). But they will remain very
separate for many years to come.

That said, the higher end iPads are becoming desktop class devices in
computing and graphics power. But they are hampered to a degree where
storage and peripherals are concerned.

If one operates several Macs, iPhones and iPads as I do at home and at
work, one is very grateful for the interoperability provided in a near
seamless manner between iOS and Mac OS. There's no need to merge them -
indeed "under the hood" they have had a ton of commonality since the
iPhone (or even iPod).

--
"My Twitter has become so powerful that
I can actually make my enemies tell the truth."
...Donald Trump
  #12  
Old November 13th 17, 10:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,650
Default Cheap Apple

On 2017-11-13 11:24, Savageduck wrote:

Should we start labelling you a Window-pain?


!

--
"My Twitter has become so powerful that
I can actually make my enemies tell the truth."
...Donald Trump
  #13  
Old November 13th 17, 10:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20,959
Default Cheap Apple

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

Lots of folks are curious in what step Apple will take next with Mac
hard and software. If you are interested in the current family of
systems it might be a good idea to take a step back and see where they
are heading. Will there be separate mac- and i- OSs or will they merge?
Will the hardware merge so that we will see ARM processors on Macs? That
will be sorted out then the new Mac Pro system arrives. Until then the
serious hobbyist with other obligations and limited resources could be
wise to wait and see if Apples new offerings due in a year or so just
see if is that is that they want. They do charge for the gear, you know!


Good advice


No. It's crappy advice. Apple will not merge iOS and MacOS despite
greater and greater integration and interoperability between them
(across apps via iCloud and local comms services such as handover).


it depends what you call merge.

under the hood, they're already merged, since both are os x, but with a
different user interface layer and minor other differences.

What they will do (and almost certainly have running in the back room)
is move Macs from intel to ARM processors. But this will be very
transparent to users and more so than during the past quite smooth
transition from PowerPC to intel.


and even smoother transition from 68k to powerpc.

Those developers who completely adopted XCode/Cocoa will be able to
distribute their code to the new ARM world with nary a change to their
code - so no impact on late intel adopters, contrary to the nonsense
above. This will be even smoother than the Rosetta supported PPC/intel
transition.


more accurately, apps submitted to the app store can be recompiled to
arm code on the fly.

The main difference is that iOS is mainly a "consumption and capture"
device whereas a Mac is a mainly "workstation and creation" device.
There is overlap (when isn't there?). But they will remain very
separate for many years to come.


that's a myth.

both platforms serve both purposes, depending on the user and tasks.

That said, the higher end iPads are becoming desktop class devices in
computing and graphics power.


they already are and have been for a while.

the a11 chip benchmarks faster than recent macbook pros.

But they are hampered to a degree where
storage and peripherals are concerned.


not really.

If one operates several Macs, iPhones and iPads as I do at home and at
work, one is very grateful for the interoperability provided in a near
seamless manner between iOS and Mac OS. There's no need to merge them -
indeed "under the hood" they have had a ton of commonality since the
iPhone (or even iPod).


interoperability is yet another thing the apple haters do not 'get'.
  #14  
Old November 13th 17, 10:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20,959
Default Cheap Apple

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

I'm tempted to pick up one of those MacBooks at $149 just to see what
the Mac thing is like, but I probably won't. Dunno what I'd do with a
second laptop.

That is a pretty good price for a refurbished MacBook, (note; Macbook,
not
MacBookPro) and could make for a budget on-the-road machine. It could do
with
a bit more RAM, and perhaps an SSD upgrade. So spend another $200 and you
would have your budget Mac.

considering how old it is, it's not a pretty good price at all.

although adding memory and ssd would help (and very easy to do), it's
wasted money for something that old.

Perhaps $150 is a bit steep in that market.


very steep for something that old.

But the laptop will still
be fine for most general use that isn't CPU intensive. That includes
photo editing, office apps, mail, web, video watching, etc.


small photos and videos, perhaps, but for 1080p and/or h.265, it's
going to fall flat.


No issue for 1080 - used to do that with my SO's prior MBA w/o issue and
it was slow.


there absolutely is an issue with 1080p.

both my '08 and '09 macbook pros drop frames with 1080p, and the latter
has an ssd.

no issue on more recent macs.

h.265 is rare in most respects.


nope. it's actually rather common, and that's even before it became the
default format for iphones.

I sold an iMac (late 2007 v.) with a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo with 6 GB of
RAM. The family that bought it still use it daily and w/o complaint.
I'm not sure what OS it is at. I sold it to them with Mavericks installed.


it's probably still on mavericks, and also quite a bit faster than the
macbook.


Not really. The iMac was a 2007 model. If the Macbook quoted is
2009/2010 then it has a pretty good processor.


a core 2 duo of unspecified speed, which can be anywhere from 2-2.4
ghz.

more than likely it's on the slower end, otherwise the store would have
listed the cpu speed as well as jacked their price even more. the
macbook also has a slow laptop drive.

your 2007 imac had 2.8 ghz core 2 duo processor (already faster), more
memory, a much faster desktop drive and a faster gpu.

so yes, it was faster.

If I were to invest in improving that laptop at all it would be for the
SSD first and the RAM only possibly depending on the configuration as sold.


at which point, it becomes not such a good deal.


It's more than fine for someone who is "Mac curious".


it's not representative of what a modern mac can do. for example,
there's no handoff & continuity. the display is also not very good as
well as being pre-retina.

buying something cheap, only to spend money on it to make it less sucky
is not a good idea.
  #15  
Old November 13th 17, 10:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20,959
Default Cheap Apple

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

If I were to invest in improving that laptop at all it would be for the
SSD first and the RAM only possibly depending on the configuration as
sold.

at which point, it becomes not such a good deal.


It's more than fine for someone who is "Mac curious".


As the original poster of this thread...the *only* reason I'd buy one
of those Macs is out of curiosity.


it's the wrong mac to buy just for curiosity.

I have a perfectly fine Windows
desktop and laptop that have never caused me a problem, and see no
reason to switch to a Mac.


yet another reason not to bother.
  #16  
Old November 13th 17, 10:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,650
Default Cheap Apple

On 2017-11-13 16:16, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:50:28 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2017-11-12 20:12, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:


[1] TC's original post:
I'm tempted to pick up one of those MacBooks at $149 just to see what
the Mac thing is like, but I probably won't.


It's more than fine for someone who is "Mac curious".


As the original poster of this thread...the *only* reason I'd buy one
of those Macs is out of curiosity. I have a perfectly fine Windows
desktop and laptop that have never caused me a problem, and see no
reason to switch to a Mac.


My replies have only been in the context of such a Mac for someone who
is "Mac curious". What you do with your time and money is your affair.

--
"My Twitter has become so powerful that
I can actually make my enemies tell the truth."
...Donald Trump
  #17  
Old November 13th 17, 10:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,352
Default Cheap Apple

In article ,
Alan Browne wrote:

No. It's crappy advice. Apple will not merge iOS and MacOS despite
greater and greater integration and interoperability between them


Good to know!

[---]

What they will do (and almost certainly have running in the back room)
is move Macs from intel to ARM processors. But this will be very
transparent to users and more so than during the past quite smooth
transition from PowerPC to intel.


Good to know too!
--
teleportation kills
  #18  
Old November 13th 17, 10:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,352
Default Cheap Apple

In article ,
Tony Cooper wrote:

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:50:28 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2017-11-12 20:12, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

I'm tempted to pick up one of those MacBooks at $149 just to see what
the Mac thing is like, but I probably won't. Dunno what I'd do with a
second laptop.

That is a pretty good price for a refurbished MacBook, (note; Macbook,
not
MacBookPro) and could make for a budget on-the-road machine. It could
do
with
a bit more RAM, and perhaps an SSD upgrade. So spend another $200 and
you
would have your budget Mac.

considering how old it is, it's not a pretty good price at all.

although adding memory and ssd would help (and very easy to do), it's
wasted money for something that old.

Perhaps $150 is a bit steep in that market.

very steep for something that old.

But the laptop will still
be fine for most general use that isn't CPU intensive. That includes
photo editing, office apps, mail, web, video watching, etc.

small photos and videos, perhaps, but for 1080p and/or h.265, it's
going to fall flat.


No issue for 1080 - used to do that with my SO's prior MBA w/o issue and
it was slow.

h.265 is rare in most respects.

I sold an iMac (late 2007 v.) with a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo with 6 GB of
RAM. The family that bought it still use it daily and w/o complaint.
I'm not sure what OS it is at. I sold it to them with Mavericks
installed.

it's probably still on mavericks, and also quite a bit faster than the
macbook.


Not really. The iMac was a 2007 model. If the Macbook quoted is
2009/2010 then it has a pretty good processor.


If I were to invest in improving that laptop at all it would be for the
SSD first and the RAM only possibly depending on the configuration as
sold.

at which point, it becomes not such a good deal.


It's more than fine for someone who is "Mac curious".


As the original poster of this thread...the *only* reason I'd buy one
of those Macs is out of curiosity. I have a perfectly fine Windows
desktop and laptop that have never caused me a problem, and see no
reason to switch to a Mac.


Treat yourself to an old Mac then. I guess that your life is like an
empty void that have to be filled with the 15 year old buzz about that
what the OSX was...
--
teleportation kills
  #19  
Old November 13th 17, 10:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,650
Default Cheap Apple

On 2017-11-13 16:39, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

Lots of folks are curious in what step Apple will take next with Mac
hard and software. If you are interested in the current family of
systems it might be a good idea to take a step back and see where they
are heading. Will there be separate mac- and i- OSs or will they merge?
Will the hardware merge so that we will see ARM processors on Macs? That
will be sorted out then the new Mac Pro system arrives. Until then the
serious hobbyist with other obligations and limited resources could be
wise to wait and see if Apples new offerings due in a year or so just
see if is that is that they want. They do charge for the gear, you know!


Good advice


No. It's crappy advice. Apple will not merge iOS and MacOS despite
greater and greater integration and interoperability between them
(across apps via iCloud and local comms services such as handover).


it depends what you call merge.

under the hood, they're already merged, since both are os x, but with a
different user interface layer and minor other differences.


It's not OS X. It has a lot of OS X components but its behaviour, most
notably in the user relationship to the file system is completely
different. Likewise wrt to the gammut of i/o for MacOS v the thin world
of iOS.

What they will do (and almost certainly have running in the back room)
is move Macs from intel to ARM processors. But this will be very
transparent to users and more so than during the past quite smooth
transition from PowerPC to intel.


and even smoother transition from 68k to powerpc.

Those developers who completely adopted XCode/Cocoa will be able to
distribute their code to the new ARM world with nary a change to their
code - so no impact on late intel adopters, contrary to the nonsense
above. This will be even smoother than the Rosetta supported PPC/intel
transition.


more accurately, apps submitted to the app store can be recompiled to
arm code on the fly.

The main difference is that iOS is mainly a "consumption and capture"
device whereas a Mac is a mainly "workstation and creation" device.
There is overlap (when isn't there?). But they will remain very
separate for many years to come.


that's a myth.

both platforms serve both purposes, depending on the user and tasks.


Wow - what contradiction in one phrase.


That said, the higher end iPads are becoming desktop class devices in
computing and graphics power.


they already are and have been for a while.

the a11 chip benchmarks faster than recent macbook pros.

But they are hampered to a degree where
storage and peripherals are concerned.


not really.


Really. Don't see many Thunderbolt class peripherals running at full
tilt in an iOS environment. Try printing a 4 colour separation from iOS
.... etc. Indeed using iOS where a lot of files are in use is pretty
lame all around. It's just not oriented to that.

iOS / iDevices are thinly interfaced. Which is fine for what they do.

--
"My Twitter has become so powerful that
I can actually make my enemies tell the truth."
...Donald Trump
  #20  
Old November 13th 17, 10:58 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,650
Default Cheap Apple

On 2017-11-13 16:39, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

I'm tempted to pick up one of those MacBooks at $149 just to see what
the Mac thing is like, but I probably won't. Dunno what I'd do with a
second laptop.

That is a pretty good price for a refurbished MacBook, (note; Macbook,
not
MacBookPro) and could make for a budget on-the-road machine. It could do
with
a bit more RAM, and perhaps an SSD upgrade. So spend another $200 and you
would have your budget Mac.

considering how old it is, it's not a pretty good price at all.

although adding memory and ssd would help (and very easy to do), it's
wasted money for something that old.

Perhaps $150 is a bit steep in that market.

very steep for something that old.

But the laptop will still
be fine for most general use that isn't CPU intensive. That includes
photo editing, office apps, mail, web, video watching, etc.

small photos and videos, perhaps, but for 1080p and/or h.265, it's
going to fall flat.


No issue for 1080 - used to do that with my SO's prior MBA w/o issue and
it was slow.


there absolutely is an issue with 1080p.

both my '08 and '09 macbook pros drop frames with 1080p, and the latter
has an ssd.


Sucks to be you - did same with aforementioned MBA w/o issue. SSD is
irrelevant since the HD has way more that enough BW to deliver the content.

no issue on more recent macs.

h.265 is rare in most respects.


nope. it's actually rather common, and that's even before it became the
default format for iphones.


And yet one has no issue finding most content in 264 on the web and
elsewhere. Default * required. I haven't to date been unable to view a
video because it was .265. True non issue.

I sold an iMac (late 2007 v.) with a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo with 6 GB of
RAM. The family that bought it still use it daily and w/o complaint.
I'm not sure what OS it is at. I sold it to them with Mavericks installed.

it's probably still on mavericks, and also quite a bit faster than the
macbook.


Not really. The iMac was a 2007 model. If the Macbook quoted is
2009/2010 then it has a pretty good processor.


a core 2 duo of unspecified speed, which can be anywhere from 2-2.4
ghz.


Yep, fine for general use. 2010 is 2.4 actually.


more than likely it's on the slower end, otherwise the store would have
listed the cpu speed as well as jacked their price even more. the
macbook also has a slow laptop drive.

your 2007 imac had 2.8 ghz core 2 duo processor (already faster), more
memory, a much faster desktop drive and a faster gpu.

so yes, it was faster.


Not enough to matter for general purpose use.

The notebook mentioned is 4 GB. My iMac had 6 (at the end - started at 2).

If I were to invest in improving that laptop at all it would be for the
SSD first and the RAM only possibly depending on the configuration as sold.

at which point, it becomes not such a good deal.


It's more than fine for someone who is "Mac curious".


it's not representative of what a modern mac can do. for example,


It doesn't have to be for someone who simply wants to see what OS X is
all about. If one likes that experience then sell it off and get the
real thing.

there's no handoff & continuity. the display is also not very good as
well as being pre-retina.


So what? My 2012 iMac (this one) is not retina either. Doesn't stop me
from doing anything I need to do.


buying something cheap, only to spend money on it to make it less sucky
is not a good idea.


No need to spend more on it. Those are just possibilities if one wanted
to keep the thing.

--
"My Twitter has become so powerful that
I can actually make my enemies tell the truth."
...Donald Trump
 




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