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#71
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2011-01-11 17:13:09 -0800, John Turco said:
Savageduck wrote: On 2010-12-22 19:16:49 -0800, Eric Stevens said: heavily edited for brevity So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. They needed them anyway. Yup! I guess the got them. Well, from what I recall reading, the Allison engine's real drawback was its lack of a supercharger. The P-51's manufacturer (North American) had built the plane to British specifications, and the latter had originally intended the aircraft as a low-level "rhubarb fighter." Hence, North American decided against the supercharger; such an omission severely crippled the Allison's high-altitude performance, unfortunately. Not quite right. The Allison V-1710 always had a single stage supercharger, it just didn't perform well above 15,000 ft. The English variant "Mustang" MkI, MkII, MkIII were powered by the same single stage supercharged Allison V-1710 used in the Bell P-39, P-40, and the English P-38, the "Lightning" MkI & MkII. All had performance issues above 15,000 ft. The US Lockheed P-38, was powered by 12 cylinder Allison V-1710 engines fitted with top secret turbo-superchargers to supplied with the English order. The variant of P-38 exported for RAF use was fitted with non-Turbo-supercharged "right-side" single stage supercharged Allison V-1710's and was ultimately rejected by the RAF. By specifying their order for the "Lightning" MkI & MkII, with "right-side" engines, they lost the benefit of counter rotating props. The reason for using the "right side" Allison V-1710 was, that was the engine, with single stage supercharger, used in the UK lend-lease P-40's, & "Mustang" MkI, II, & III -- Regards, Savageduck |
#72
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2011-01-11 17:11:41 -0800, John Turco said:
peter wrote: On 12/20/2010 4:40 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 07:42:19 -0800, Savageduck wrote: heavily edited for brevity The English motorcycle industry was locked into their post war "Golden age" of the late 40's-early 50's using pre-war 1930's manufacturing technology and design. That was the real problem. The British motorcycle industry was stuck with what were basically pre-war designs because they were stuck with pre-war machine tools and manufacturing methods. To some extent the continuance of obsolete designs could be blamed on the government of the time which would not allow new models to be introduced until after 1949. How do you explain the mechanical issues with the Jag. I know about 10 people who had them and all have had mechanical issues. The car was great when it ran, but IIRC required frequent servicing. How does one "explain" the embarrassing reliability records of Land Rover, Mercedes and other prestigious European automotive marques? Conversely, the Ford Focus - a humble American economy model - is a splendid, little vehicle. People don't always "get what they pay for," alas. Sad to say, the Ford Focus is a Euro-Ford, just as the new Buick Regal is an Opel. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#73
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:12:20 -0600, John Turco wrote:
My late father once told me a story, along similar lines. An American manufacturer tried to impress one of its lordly German counterparts, by shipping samples of extrordinarily-tiny drill bits. Those same items were soon returned -- with holes in them! (Probably apocryphal, but, just sayin'.) When I heard the story (in the early 60's it was the engineeering dept. of a couple of universities. One sent the other a microscopically small bolt, the second returned the bolt with nut attached which was returned with holes drilled through the corners for a locking wire. -- Neil Linux counter 335851 delete ‘l’ and reverse ‘r’ and’a’ |
#74
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
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#76
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:15:29 -0600, John Turco
wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 14:32:32 -0800, Savageduck wrote: edited for brevity But the British-made Merlins were considerably more oil-tight than their trans-Atlantic brethren. I don't know how much that was due to quality of machined surfaces vs joint sealant technology. Eric Stevens Where did that piece of information come from? Sounds apocryphal to me. Royal New Zealand Airforce, which at one time operated both P-51s and Mosquitos. I have no direct knowledge of my own. From my days of owning a Triumph motorcycle, I do know the miraculous properties of Rolls Royce Gasket Cement - a sticky rubbery brew specially developed to help keep the oil inside the Merlin. Eric Stevens In other words, "apocryphal" -- just as "Savageduck" said! A bit better than that. An airforce pilot was a fellow student in the final years of my engineering degree and I knew two aircraft engineers who worked on various Merlins. When it came to me the information was first hand. Eric Stevens |
#77
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:13:09 -0600, John Turco
wrote: Savageduck wrote: On 2010-12-22 19:16:49 -0800, Eric Stevens said: heavily edited for brevity So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. They needed them anyway. Yup! I guess the got them. Well, from what I recall reading, the Allison engine's real drawback was its lack of a supercharger. The P-51's manufacturer (North American) had built the plane to British specifications, and the latter had originally intended the aircraft as a low-level "rhubarb fighter." I've never heard that before and in fact I doubt if it is correct. I don't quite know what you mean by a 'rhubarb fighter'. The early versions were only used at lower altitudes because that it is all they were good for. http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/p51.html does a good job of setting out how the P-51 came about and it is clear that the aircraft came out of an already established proposal using the Allison engine. It was the high altitude deficiencies of the Allison which caused the design to later be modified to take the Merlin. Hence, North American decided against the supercharger; such an omission severely crippled the Allison's high-altitude performance, unfortunately. Decisions about superchargers were not North American's to make. They had to make do with whatever the engine manufacturer provided them. The only way they could get a decent high altitude supercharger was by fitting a different engine. Eric Stevens |
#78
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:13:33 -0800, Savageduck
wrote: On 2011-01-11 17:13:09 -0800, John Turco said: Savageduck wrote: On 2010-12-22 19:16:49 -0800, Eric Stevens said: heavily edited for brevity So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. They needed them anyway. Yup! I guess the got them. Well, from what I recall reading, the Allison engine's real drawback was its lack of a supercharger. The P-51's manufacturer (North American) had built the plane to British specifications, and the latter had originally intended the aircraft as a low-level "rhubarb fighter." Hence, North American decided against the supercharger; such an omission severely crippled the Allison's high-altitude performance, unfortunately. Not quite right. The Allison V-1710 always had a single stage supercharger, it just didn't perform well above 15,000 ft. The English variant "Mustang" MkI, MkII, MkIII were powered by the same single stage supercharged Allison V-1710 used in the Bell P-39, P-40, and the English P-38, the "Lightning" MkI & MkII. All had performance issues above 15,000 ft. The US Lockheed P-38, was powered by 12 cylinder Allison V-1710 engines fitted with top secret turbo-superchargers to supplied with the English order. The variant of P-38 exported for RAF use was fitted with non-Turbo-supercharged "right-side" single stage supercharged Allison V-1710's and was ultimately rejected by the RAF. By specifying their order for the "Lightning" MkI & MkII, with "right-side" engines, they lost the benefit of counter rotating props. The reason for using the "right side" Allison V-1710 was, that was the engine, with single stage supercharger, used in the UK lend-lease P-40's, & "Mustang" MkI, II, & III I've always understood that at the stage of the war the US would not allow turbocharged engines to be sold to any foreign government. hence the British were forced to take the unturbocharged engines which, as you say, turned the Lightning into rather a dog. Eric Stevens |
#79
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:11:17 -0600, John Turco
wrote: David J Taylor wrote: "Rich" wrote in message ... [] Because their quality control is lacking? I don't care if the Japanese camp-out in the factories, you don't get the same result as Made in Japan. You obviously do not remember when "Made in Japan" was a warning of a bad-quality rip-off. Now it seems you revere such items.... Times change. I know what you mean, David. During my childhood, in the 1960's (U.S.A.), I remember dismantling Japanese toy cars...and was shocked to see that they were constructed from soup cans! More likely they were made from tin-plate sheet printed for use in soup cans but never actually used. i.e. _cheap_ left-over steel. As for "RichA" -- he's made in Canada. 'Nuff said. Eric Stevens |
#80
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Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2011-01-12 12:50:59 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:13:33 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On 2011-01-11 17:13:09 -0800, John Turco said: Savageduck wrote: On 2010-12-22 19:16:49 -0800, Eric Stevens said: heavily edited for brevity So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. They needed them anyway. Yup! I guess the got them. Well, from what I recall reading, the Allison engine's real drawback was its lack of a supercharger. The P-51's manufacturer (North American) had built the plane to British specifications, and the latter had originally intended the aircraft as a low-level "rhubarb fighter." Hence, North American decided against the supercharger; such an omission severely crippled the Allison's high-altitude performance, unfortunately. Not quite right. The Allison V-1710 always had a single stage supercharger, it just didn't perform well above 15,000 ft. The English variant "Mustang" MkI, MkII, MkIII were powered by the same single stage supercharged Allison V-1710 used in the Bell P-39, P-40, and the English P-38, the "Lightning" MkI & MkII. All had performance issues above 15,000 ft. The US Lockheed P-38, was powered by 12 cylinder Allison V-1710 engines fitted with top secret turbo-superchargers to supplied with the English order. The variant of P-38 exported for RAF use was fitted with non-Turbo-supercharged "right-side" single stage supercharged Allison V-1710's and was ultimately rejected by the RAF. By specifying their order for the "Lightning" MkI & MkII, with "right-side" engines, they lost the benefit of counter rotating props. The reason for using the "right side" Allison V-1710 was, that was the engine, with single stage supercharger, used in the UK lend-lease P-40's, & "Mustang" MkI, II, & III I've always understood that at the stage of the war the US would not allow turbocharged engines to be sold to any foreign government. hence the British were forced to take the unturbocharged engines which, as you say, turned the Lightning into rather a dog. Eric Stevens Correct with regard to the Turbo-supercharger, but the UK "Lightning" MkI had the single stage supercharger and Allison V-1710-39. It was the turbo-superchargers fitted to the US P-38, which was powered the Allison V-1710-111, and the P-47 which were on the prohibited list. The Allison V-1710-37/39 as fitted to the P-39, The Commonwealth P-40B & P-40C, UK "Mustang" MkI, MkII, & MkIII, and the UK "Lightning" MkI & MkII, all had the single stage supercharger which worked reasonably up to 15,000-16,500 ft, any higher and they were asthmatic dogs. They mostly ended up as ground attack fighters, though the Russians were pretty successful with the P-39 as fighter. The "Mustang" MkI & MkII never got P-51 designation. They were designated USAAF A-36 Apache/Invader. Later the RAF, Australians, NZ, South Africans in the Desert Air Force got 330 of the P-40F's fitted with the Packard Merlin V-1650 as fitted to the P-51, Lancaster, & Mosquito. The Russians got the P-39's as is and never got the P-63 KingCobra with the turbo-supercharged V-1710-117. -- Regards, Savageduck |
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