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#71
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
On 10-08-18 18:34 , Walter Banks wrote:
Savageduck wrote: On 2010-08-18 14:13:21 -0700, Alan Browne said: On 10-08-18 15:31 , Savageduck wrote: On 2010-08-18 09:41:11 -0700, Alan Browne Here is one of those cars, worth several million$$$$, being raced quite hard on Sunday. http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/_DNC4253w.jpg Is that a turbocharger? Looks like two turbines, back to back with a single compressor. Or am I completely wrong? Twin Roots Superchargers, 8 cylinder, 215 bhp, dry weight 1545 lbs. New meaning into blown straight eight. Nice car. Not really a straight eight but two fours back to back. -- gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam. |
#72
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
On 10-08-19 9:18 , Peter wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... The only rental co. I really avoid if I can is Alamo. They usually have their lots way, way, way off the large airports. On one rental occasion I had to return three different cans, because of mechanical defects. the third was because the brakes failed. IMHO all rental companies suck in that they have no realistic provision for roadside assistance. We were on a vacation and the rented Prius wouldn't lock. It took 45 minutes of listening to how important I was to them, before they told me to bring it to their nearest location, about an hour away. I simply told them: the location of the car for the night; it was their car' and I would not be responsible if it got stolen. Given the hundreds of cars I've rented over the years I cannot at all fault Hertz or Budget in any instance. The few times there has been something wrong (including me locking keys in the car in LA) I have had on site help within an hour. Once I dropped a car at a different location because of a bad vibration and I had a second car and out the lot within 5 minutes of pulling in. Europcar have been good as well - and that includes upgrades to a Benz on many occasions. Only problem in Europe is that if you need a large vehicle for whatever reason (lots of gear or needing to move a lot of people) the daily rates are exorbitant compared to N. America. -- gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam. |
#73
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
On 10-08-19 22:23 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-08-19 15:24:50 -0700, Alan Browne said: On 10-08-18 18:19 , Savageduck wrote: On 2010-08-18 15:00:38 -0700, Alan Browne said: On 10-08-18 17:34 , Savageduck wrote: On 2010-08-18 14:13:21 -0700, Alan Browne said: On 10-08-18 15:31 , Savageduck wrote: On 2010-08-18 09:41:11 -0700, Alan Browne Here is one of those cars, worth several million$$$$, being raced quite hard on Sunday. http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/_DNC4253w.jpg Is that a turbocharger? Looks like two turbines, back to back with a single compressor. Or am I completely wrong? Twin Roots Superchargers, 8 cylinder, 215 bhp, dry weight 1545 lbs. Ouch. Fuel consumption must have been horrible. At least with turbo the wastegate is open most of the time. Still, one hell of a power/weight ratio for the day. It has two inline banks of 4 cylinders, which is why the twin blowers, one for each bank, are positioned where they are. That was plain enough, but has little to do with the number of blowers, it's more about volume and pressure. eg: a larger blower could have had a split output to each "engine". I am glad that was plain enough.Those motors were on the outer edge of the development envelope, and they were beyond "state of the art" for the day. Twin turbos are more common on V-8's (V-n's) as the exhaust and intake manifolds make it an easier ducting job. So? This is how the Alfa engineers did it then. Today AUDI/VW's engineers have taken the same concept into mating motors to created larger multicylinder motors. for example those found in the Lamborgini, Bentley and Rolls Royce V12's (all developed from 2xVW V6's) Bugatti Veyron, a V16 from 2 W8 V8's and quad-turbo chargers producing 1,1845 bhp @ 1200psi. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...swagen_W16.jpg The VW engineers are working on both ends of the problem for the exotics and for the fuel economy minded. You mind consider seeing if they are in anyway interested in some of your ideas. I'm not claiming special knowledge. However when most people hear "turbo" in the automobile world, economic fuel consumption is far from their interest - it is instead to get high output at the expense of consumption. In today's world such vanity is a silly waste. I'm sure that VW know (as they have shown it) that the only time a turbo helps fuel _economy_ is when it is used with the smallest practical engine for a given car (regardless of the size of the car). When it is used with "muscle" engines it can only increase power far beyond practical locomotive needs of the vehicle and hence economy will suffer. This is why engines such as the smaller TDI's render such good economics (turbo / diesel). There is no magic in the "diesel" part except that the engine is very robust and hence can operate at peak efficiency (with turbo) over long periods. A standard small gasoline engine cannot survive such a punishing load for very long. (I assume a "robust" small gasoline engine could be built, but there is a small leverage effect for diesel due to the stoichiometric ratio and the higher energy content of diesel.) The _entire_ notion of a fuel economical turbo engine is to extract work from the exhaust gases _as much as possible at all times_. The "muscle car" use of turbo does not do that - it only uses the turbo for high output needs, eg: at the drivers whim for acceleration. During cruise the turbo is unused and the exhaust energy is wasted. As to my ideas, I had the idea of a turbo generator over 10 years ago but it was highly impractical with the generators/alternators of the day. Now it is practical due to advances in generator design. (See "thingap turbo generator)"). My application was to offload the engine of all the "draggy" accessories (parasites). Thingap are there - I'd expect to see their system in production cars within 5 years. With such, a car "needing" a 150 hp engine could get by with a 125 hp engine without loss of "performance" (where performance="zip"). That means a lighter engine, lighter drive train, lighter wheels, etc all contributing to lower fuel consumption for acceleration. It's all about compounding effect. Still it got a top speed of 140mph, and won the first time it was raced, beating AutoUnion & Mercedes. As far as fuel consumption goes? ...that's what pit stops are for. My interest in auto energy is to reduce consumption, not use pit stops. Sorry. Can't help you. Back then they were looking for power, to translate to speed. These were racing machines, not new econo-boxes. As I said when I started the thread, if you are in anyway "green" this stuff might not be for you. Different times, different goals. This is not an "econo-box" only solution set. In larger vehicles the losses due to having oversized engines wasting energy (not using the turbo, excessive parasitic load, etc.) could be significantly shaved resulting in a smaller displacement engine (less weight) with little or no loss in "thrill" - though that's not an objective IMO. My notions of turbo chargers come from aircraft engines where the use is especially to maintain manifold pressure with changes in altitude. This adds to the fuel economy of aircraft engines (in a round about way). Today's rules, F1 cars have to finish the race with the fuel they have on board at the start. No refueling pit stops are permitted. So much of the development research is going into fuel economy vs power vs weight. True enough. But such technology would be better invested at the "common" end of the car market where fuel economy comes from minimizing weight and maximizing fuel load without pushing for acceleration and speed. -- gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam. |
#74
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
On 10-08-20 20:35 , Walter Banks wrote:
Peter wrote: I had planned to go to the Rhinebeck Aerodrome to see a WW I re-enactment. We passed right by it last weekend, but had other plans on Saturday and Sunday it rained. So all depends on the weather. So far I am leaning towards Rhinebeck. Dealing with the Hampton crowds on Saturday are not worth it. My vote is Rhinebeck. It has been a while but it was nothing short of amazing when Cole Palen was still alive. I was there one weekend when a J-3 was cutting a streamer out of a roll of toilet paper. The paper went into the J3 air intake and shut it down just as it disappeared behind the trees. It landed in a field out of sight, pilot pulled out toilet paper and propped it from behind, reappeared about 5 minutes later. WWI can do and it can happen. How do you cool a WWI radial engine. Hang onto the crank shaft and let the engine turn. Again gyroscopic forces had quite an effect on the small/light/shortcoupled aircraft that such engines were attached to. -- gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam. |
#75
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
Alan Browne wrote: How do you cool a WWI radial engine. Hang onto the crank shaft and let the engine turn. Again gyroscopic forces had quite an effect on the small/light/shortcoupled aircraft that such engines were attached to. Cole Palen had ax handles on the lower wings of the DR1 to take the brunt of the force when it dropped a wing on landing (almost a ground loop) Cole Palen described a landing with the DR1 when he ground looped recovered and then ground looped the other way. The ax handles were added after the first few ground loops. The DR1 was fundamentally unstable. The stab on it was lifting as well as the mains unlike most modern AC where the stab has negative lift. It was short coupled and nasty to fly. But beautiful w.. |
#76
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
Charles E Hardwidge wrote:
"Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I remember how I loved the "E" type Jag back in the 50's I couldn't wait until I started working and had some cash to buy one....By the time I did, Jaguar had stopped making them....did they stop making the huge upside down bathtubs that the American manufacturers were making? Hell no they didn't!! They dropped the only beautiful thing they had left.....The XKE! Whatever disease that all the American car manufacturers had caught had traveled across the Atlantic and infected the British car makers...... There was a burst of management types trying to emulate modern America around that time and it percolated into city planning as well. The problem is it wasn't thought through or followed through properly. Big fail all round. My guess is cars got snarled up in that wave as well. Not sure what era you are talking about exactly but the recent decade's Jaguars look incredibly astoundingly bland! Ditto for most Mercedes. |
#77
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
Paul Furman wrote: Charles E Hardwidge wrote: "Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I remember how I loved the "E" type Jag back in the 50's I couldn't wait until I started working and had some cash to buy one....By the time I did, Jaguar had stopped making them....did they stop making the huge upside down bathtubs that the American manufacturers were making? Hell no they didn't!! They dropped the only beautiful thing they had left.....The XKE! Whatever disease that all the American car manufacturers had caught had traveled across the Atlantic and infected the British car makers...... There was a burst of management types trying to emulate modern America around that time and it percolated into city planning as well. The problem is it wasn't thought through or followed through properly. Big fail all round. My guess is cars got snarled up in that wave as well. Not sure what era you are talking about exactly but the recent decade's Jaguars look incredibly astoundingly bland! Ditto for most Mercedes. Seems to me the E-type was a 1960s car. There were some real bloopers in the 1950s and 60s, all over the world. Some 1970s and 80s cars were pretty good. I'm not very excited about many cars since then. Remember when we were kids and could recognize and call out the make and model of every car on the road? Design choices having to do with weight, wind resistance, and fear of making an ugly mistake have resulted in cars that are essentially indistinguishable, one brand from another. There is enough about the Forduars to recognize them sometimes, and for some reason the Mini looks to me like an Austin-Healey 3000 when first spotted head-on at a distance. Otherwise, plenty of newly introduced cars - last three or four years, anyway - seem to be designed to appeal to cartoon-watchers. Look at the high beltlines and pillbox windows on Magnums, Camaros, and Challengers. Ick. -- Frank ess |
#78
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
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#79
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
On 2010-08-23 11:36:49 -0700, "Frank ess" said:
Paul Furman wrote: Charles E Hardwidge wrote: "Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I remember how I loved the "E" type Jag back in the 50's I couldn't wait until I started working and had some cash to buy one....By the time I did, Jaguar had stopped making them....did they stop making the huge upside down bathtubs that the American manufacturers were making? Hell no they didn't!! They dropped the only beautiful thing they had left.....The XKE! Whatever disease that all the American car manufacturers had caught had traveled across the Atlantic and infected the British car makers...... There was a burst of management types trying to emulate modern America around that time and it percolated into city planning as well. The problem is it wasn't thought through or followed through properly. Big fail all round. My guess is cars got snarled up in that wave as well. Not sure what era you are talking about exactly but the recent decade's Jaguars look incredibly astoundingly bland! Ditto for most Mercedes. Seems to me the E-type was a 1960s car. Correct. First produced in 1961, the Jag E-Type was a 1960's road going development of the 1954-57 pure racing car, the Jag D-Type. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_D-Type There were some real bloopers in the 1950s and 60s, all over the world. Some 1970s and 80s cars were pretty good. I'm not very excited about many cars since then. Remember when we were kids and could recognize and call out the make and model of every car on the road? Design choices having to do with weight, wind resistance, and fear of making an ugly mistake have resulted in cars that are essentially indistinguishable, one brand from another. There is enough about the Forduars to recognize them sometimes, and for some reason the Mini looks to me like an Austin-Healey 3000 when first spotted head-on at a distance. You mix up a Mini and an A-H 3000 head-on? ....and in my opinion one of the best looking, and functioning cars to come out of the 70's & 80's were the Mercedes 230/250/280/380SL, all with the same basic body lines, with subtle tweeks from year to year. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...3_380sl_us.jpg Otherwise, plenty of newly introduced cars - last three or four years, anyway - seem to be designed to appeal to cartoon-watchers. Look at the high beltlines and pillbox windows on Magnums, Camaros, and Challengers. Ick. The tragedy of the influence of the "street designers" from the custom & hotrod school of fashion, without the 30's sense of Art Nuveau sleek. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#80
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Sunday at Laguna Seca
Savageduck wrote: On 2010-08-23 11:36:49 -0700, "Frank ess" said: and for some reason the Mini looks to me like an Austin-Healey 3000 when first spotted head-on at a distance. You mix up a Mini and an A-H 3000 head-on? Ayuh. http://www.fototime.com/6C52FB892D1072C/orig.gif |
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