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Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 1st 06, 06:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Protoncek \(ex.SleeperMan\)
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Posts: 198
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens


"Bill" wrote in message
.. .
"Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan)" wrote in message
...

"RichA" wrote in message
And the contenders are (in no specific order):

1. Canon 17-85 IS
2. Canon 17-40 L

I have a Canon 17-40 L and it is sharp as a tack, it is my stay on the
camera lens.

Not on the edge, unless you really stop it down.
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/57631694


that's what i meant...people (who own it) just like to exagerrate a
bit...


It's not an exaggeration at all. The lense is well known to be that good,
and my own experience with it agrees with the general consensus. You're
free to believe what you want, but believing RichA is like believing that
Superman is real - it's all in a fantasy world.

For some background - Rich is well known in these groups as a troll and a
questionable source of information and/or facts. He doesn't own the
equipment he claims to have "tested" nor is there any evidence that he
even owns a camera, let alone a DSLR.

Now for the facts - the image Rich posted is of questionable origin. The
reason it's questioned is three-fold:

1 - The image sucks for a 17-40 which I know performs much better.

2 - The image size is wrong for the 30D - original size is 4368x2912 which
is the 5D file size at 12.7 megapixels (30D is 3504x2336 8.2mp).

3 - There is no exif data and we have no idea if the image was processed
or not.

And finally, here's a link to a comparison of the 17-40 and 16-35 lenses
from Canon. The results agree with my own personal experience:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...on-17-40.shtml

You may wish to do yourself a favour and question anything Rich has to
say. Personally, I filter his posts so I don't have to see his trolling
drivel.

ok...as i said, surely lens must be better, since first, it's L, and second,
it's expensive... just leave me some benefits as long i have a cheaper
one... :-))
BTW...i hope that by the time i'll have cash for better lens they'll put out
something in similar range like 17-85. I love this range...it's wide, and on
the other hand has quite a zoom. having two lenses instead of one can be
annoying, as come the time when i would have to change very often... Ok, one
option is 24-105, but it lacks some wide end, though...maybe some 10-22
would be needed in this case...
what would you say about 24-105 lens ? It's an L lens, and have IS, which i
found very usefull.


  #12  
Old October 1st 06, 07:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 435
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens

"Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan)" wrote in
message ...

ok...as i said, surely lens must be better, since first, it's L, and
second, it's expensive... just leave me some benefits as long i have
a cheaper one... :-))


Like I said before, it does have the benefit of a wide zoom range and
image stabilization which makes it a convenient lense for walking
around. I would like it better if it was sharper.

BTW...i hope that by the time i'll have cash for better lens they'll
put out something in similar range like 17-85. I love this
range...it's wide, and on the other hand has quite a zoom. having
two lenses instead of one can be annoying, as come the time when i
would have to change very often... Ok, one option is 24-105, but it
lacks some wide end, though...maybe some 10-22 would be needed in
this case...
what would you say about 24-105 lens ? It's an L lens, and have IS,
which i found very usefull.


The 24-105 is another well regarded lense and should perform well, but
I don't have much experience with it. And it's not my first choice as
it's not wide enough for a cropped FOV camera. Canon doesn't currently
make a good 18-70 or similar lense like the Nikon, and that's a shame.
The 24-105 also has IS which unfortunately pushes the price up into
the 24-70 f/2.8 range which is faster and better (although heavier).

This is just my opinion, but Canon needs to make a good consumer "kit"
lense that performs well for a reasonable price. That means something
without IS and covers a decent walk around range like the 17-85. Nikon
just came out with a new 18-135 that looks like it'll be a good
performer for a lot less than the Canon. Add the 18-200 VR and 18-70
into the mix and that's three Nikon lenses that blow away what Canon
offers. Canon needs to catch up...I think they've been spending too
much time on the bodies and not enough with the lenses. But then
perhaps that's their design criteria.

If I was a consumer buying from scratch, I'd go with Nikon without
hesitation. They have the better body and better "kit" lenses. But
that's just me.


  #13  
Old October 1st 06, 08:58 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Protoncek \(ex.SleeperMan\)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens


"Bill" wrote in message
.. .
"Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan)" wrote in message
...

ok...as i said, surely lens must be better, since first, it's L, and
second, it's expensive... just leave me some benefits as long i have a
cheaper one... :-))


Like I said before, it does have the benefit of a wide zoom range and
image stabilization which makes it a convenient lense for walking around.
I would like it better if it was sharper.

BTW...i hope that by the time i'll have cash for better lens they'll put
out something in similar range like 17-85. I love this range...it's wide,
and on the other hand has quite a zoom. having two lenses instead of one
can be annoying, as come the time when i would have to change very
often... Ok, one option is 24-105, but it lacks some wide end,
though...maybe some 10-22 would be needed in this case...
what would you say about 24-105 lens ? It's an L lens, and have IS, which
i found very usefull.


The 24-105 is another well regarded lense and should perform well, but I
don't have much experience with it. And it's not my first choice as it's
not wide enough for a cropped FOV camera. Canon doesn't currently make a
good 18-70 or similar lense like the Nikon, and that's a shame. The 24-105
also has IS which unfortunately pushes the price up into the 24-70 f/2.8
range which is faster and better (although heavier).

This is just my opinion, but Canon needs to make a good consumer "kit"
lense that performs well for a reasonable price. That means something
without IS and covers a decent walk around range like the 17-85. Nikon
just came out with a new 18-135 that looks like it'll be a good performer
for a lot less than the Canon. Add the 18-200 VR and 18-70 into the mix
and that's three Nikon lenses that blow away what Canon offers. Canon
needs to catch up...I think they've been spending too much time on the
bodies and not enough with the lenses. But then perhaps that's their
design criteria.

If I was a consumer buying from scratch, I'd go with Nikon without
hesitation. They have the better body and better "kit" lenses. But that's
just me.

I only hope that in time they will make some other models... Or maybe i'll
look into sigma or tokina range...at last, in that range i guess i could
live without IS...


  #14  
Old October 2nd 06, 03:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
AaronW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens

Bill wrote:
This is just my opinion, but Canon needs to make a good consumer "kit"
lense that performs well for a reasonable price. That means something
without IS and covers a decent walk around range like the 17-85. Nikon
just came out with a new 18-135 that looks like it'll be a good
performer for a lot less than the Canon. Add the 18-200 VR and 18-70
into the mix and that's three Nikon lenses that blow away what Canon
offers. Canon needs to catch up...


Maybe Canon is planning to switch to full frame soon and is not
investing in EF-S, while Nikon plans to stay with DX for a long time.
For EF, Canon has a lot of variable aperture normal zooms:
28-135/3.5-5.6 IS
24-85/3.5-4.5
28-105/3.5-4.5
....

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr

  #15  
Old October 2nd 06, 03:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
AaronW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens

Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan) wrote:
Ok, one
option is 24-105, but it lacks some wide end, though...maybe some 10-22
would be needed in this case...
what would you say about 24-105 lens ? It's an L lens, and have IS, which i
found very usefull.


You can try 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS first, and then 24-70/2.8.

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr

  #16  
Old October 2nd 06, 03:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens


Bill wrote:
"Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan)" wrote in
message ...

"RichA" wrote in message
And the contenders are (in no specific order):

1. Canon 17-85 IS
2. Canon 17-40 L

I have a Canon 17-40 L and it is sharp as a tack, it is my stay on
the
camera lens.

Not on the edge, unless you really stop it down.
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/57631694


that's what i meant...people (who own it) just like to exagerrate a
bit...


It's not an exaggeration at all. The lense is well known to be that
good, and my own experience with it agrees with the general consensus.
You're free to believe what you want, but believing RichA is like
believing that Superman is real - it's all in a fantasy world.

For some background - Rich is well known in these groups as a troll
and a questionable source of information and/or facts. He doesn't own
the equipment he claims to have "tested" nor is there any evidence
that he even owns a camera, let alone a DSLR.

Now for the facts - the image Rich posted is of questionable origin.
The reason it's questioned is three-fold:

1 - The image sucks for a 17-40 which I know performs much better.

2 - The image size is wrong for the 30D - original size is 4368x2912
which is the 5D file size at 12.7 megapixels (30D is 3504x2336 8.2mp).


I shot with a 30D and a Nikon D200 at the same time. First 30D I'd
seen in Toronto.
It wasn't a 5D. No processing other than an increase in brightness.

3 - There is no exif data and we have no idea if the image was
processed or not.




And finally, here's a link to a comparison of the 17-40 and 16-35
lenses from Canon. The results agree with my own personal experience:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...on-17-40.shtml

You may wish to do yourself a favour and question anything Rich has to
say. Personally, I filter his posts so I don't have to see his
trolling drivel.


All I did was post the image. If you'll note the central contrast,
aberration control and sharpness are fine, unlike the edge. The lens
was stopped down but only slightly.

  #17  
Old October 2nd 06, 03:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,544
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens


Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan) wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
.. .
"Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan)" wrote in message
...

"RichA" wrote in message
And the contenders are (in no specific order):

1. Canon 17-85 IS
2. Canon 17-40 L

I have a Canon 17-40 L and it is sharp as a tack, it is my stay on the
camera lens.

Not on the edge, unless you really stop it down.
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/57631694

that's what i meant...people (who own it) just like to exagerrate a
bit...


It's not an exaggeration at all. The lense is well known to be that good,
and my own experience with it agrees with the general consensus. You're
free to believe what you want, but believing RichA is like believing that
Superman is real - it's all in a fantasy world.

For some background - Rich is well known in these groups as a troll and a
questionable source of information and/or facts. He doesn't own the
equipment he claims to have "tested" nor is there any evidence that he
even owns a camera, let alone a DSLR.

Now for the facts - the image Rich posted is of questionable origin. The
reason it's questioned is three-fold:

1 - The image sucks for a 17-40 which I know performs much better.

2 - The image size is wrong for the 30D - original size is 4368x2912 which
is the 5D file size at 12.7 megapixels (30D is 3504x2336 8.2mp).

3 - There is no exif data and we have no idea if the image was processed
or not.

And finally, here's a link to a comparison of the 17-40 and 16-35 lenses
from Canon. The results agree with my own personal experience:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...on-17-40.shtml

You may wish to do yourself a favour and question anything Rich has to
say. Personally, I filter his posts so I don't have to see his trolling
drivel.

ok...as i said, surely lens must be better, since first, it's L, and second,
it's expensive... just leave me some benefits as long i have a cheaper
one... :-))
BTW...i hope that by the time i'll have cash for better lens they'll put out
something in similar range like 17-85. I love this range...it's wide, and on
the other hand has quite a zoom. having two lenses instead of one can be
annoying, as come the time when i would have to change very often... Ok, one
option is 24-105, but it lacks some wide end, though...maybe some 10-22
would be needed in this case...
what would you say about 24-105 lens ? It's an L lens, and have IS, which i
found very usefull.


If these wide, fast zooms were really any good, you wouldn't have Canon
FF owners as the main buyers of high end prime glass, which they are.
The image you saw was on a crop frame 30D. Imagine what it would have
looked like (at the edge) with a 5D.

  #18  
Old October 2nd 06, 03:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
AaronW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens

Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan) wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
.. .
You can't use the 17-85 wide
open, and even when stopped down to improve sharpness, it still lacks
contrast and it has nasty CA at the wide end. The 17-85 is a poor
performer for the price. It has the advantage of IS and a wide zoom range
for convenience, but that's it. Optically it's nothing to get excited
about, and the cheap $100 18-55 kit lense is about as good as the 17-85.


But definitely NOT for pro's. I've read several
reviews, from good to bad, and found out that all bad were compared to pro
lenses, while all good were estimated as "very good for the price" so not as
a comparison with pro lens, but rather a relative conclusion.


Not comparing to more expensive lenses, the cheaper 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS
is better than the more expensive 17-85/4-5.6 IS, plus that covers full
frame.

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr

  #19  
Old October 2nd 06, 04:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Ray Fischer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,136
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens

RichA wrote:
"jean" wrote:
a écrit dans le message de


Ok forget build quality...forget focus luxuries...forget super wide open

apertures.

What is the best IQ standard zoom when stopped down from between f8 to

f16. This includes edge to edge sharpness, contrast and colour. The best
image blown up to large print size. This is all regardless of available
light and wether it's hand held or not. In fact lets say it's on a tripod to
be sure.

Not super wide but lenses that could be regarded as walk arounds.

Lets add bang for buck marks as well.

And the contenders are (in no specific order):

1. Canon 17-85 IS
2. Canon 17-40 L


I have a Canon 17-40 L and it is sharp as a tack, it is my stay on the
camera lens.


Not on the edge, unless you really stop it down.
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/57631694


Yeah, a quick low-light snap in a phot store is supposed to impress
people as being a meaningful test.

Try again, troll. I've actually shot hundreds of pictures with the
lens. It's a good lens.

--
Ray Fischer


  #20  
Old October 2nd 06, 06:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Tom Ross
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Sharpest Canon 1.6 crop lens

On 1 Oct 2006 19:50:10 -0700, "RichA" wrote:


Bill wrote:
"Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan)" wrote in
message ...

"RichA" wrote in message
And the contenders are (in no specific order):

1. Canon 17-85 IS
2. Canon 17-40 L

I have a Canon 17-40 L and it is sharp as a tack, it is my stay on
the
camera lens.

Not on the edge, unless you really stop it down.
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/57631694

that's what i meant...people (who own it) just like to exagerrate a
bit...


It's not an exaggeration at all. The lense is well known to be that
good, and my own experience with it agrees with the general consensus.
You're free to believe what you want, but believing RichA is like
believing that Superman is real - it's all in a fantasy world.

For some background - Rich is well known in these groups as a troll
and a questionable source of information and/or facts. He doesn't own
the equipment he claims to have "tested" nor is there any evidence
that he even owns a camera, let alone a DSLR.

Now for the facts - the image Rich posted is of questionable origin.
The reason it's questioned is three-fold:

1 - The image sucks for a 17-40 which I know performs much better.

2 - The image size is wrong for the 30D - original size is 4368x2912
which is the 5D file size at 12.7 megapixels (30D is 3504x2336 8.2mp).


I shot with a 30D and a Nikon D200 at the same time. First 30D I'd
seen in Toronto.
It wasn't a 5D. No processing other than an increase in brightness.


And yet one post earlier you claimed....

The image you saw was on a crop frame 30D. Imagine what it would have
looked like (at the edge) with a 5D.


You'll be a lot more credible if you pick a story and stick to it.

TR




 




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