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Why no 28-300/18-200 lenses with lower f-stop?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 11, 12:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Michael Benveniste[_2_]
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Posts: 229
Default Why no 28-300/18-200 lenses with lower f-stop?

On 7/13/2011 5:44 PM, Bruce wrote:
Michael wrote:


The fact it was made under contract by Cosina makes it all
the more remarkable.


The 75-150mm is a fine lens, but who actually designed and made the
lens has been controversial for a very long time. It shares some
obvious design "features" with "real" Zoom-Nikkors including the
felt-based, certain-to-wear-out zoom damping present in the 50-135mm
f/3.5, 80-200mm f/4.5 and many other 1-ring Nikkors of the era. You
can't even call it zoom creep -- it's _much_ faster than a creep.

The other issue with the "outsourcing" theory is that the elements of
the 75-150mm Series E used the same NIC multicoating as those of
Nikkors. Even to this day, multicoating recipes are considered closely
guarded secrets -- so it's far more likely that Nikon manufactured the
completed lens elements.

If assembly was outsourced, and Nikon has never admitted this, the
most likely partner was Kiro Optics (Kiron) rather than Cosina.

In the later 70s/early 80s, many professional portrait shooters
lobbied Nikon for a full AIS Nikkor version of the 75-150mm (the
Series E lenses were AIS but lacked the build quality of AIS Nikkors)
but Nikon did not respond.


Since the 75-150mm wasn't released until May 1980, those pros doing the
lobbying in the later 1970's truly had remarkable vision.

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain
  #2  
Old July 14th 11, 06:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Michael Benveniste[_2_]
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Posts: 229
Default Why no 28-300/18-200 lenses with lower f-stop?

On 7/14/2011 10:02 AM, Bruce wrote:

I agree, it is the worst feature of the 75-150mm. However, it doesn't
affect the Nikon 70-210mm f/4 Series E, when it might be expected to.
I have a well-used AI converted 80-200mm f/4.5 Nikkor and the zoom
creep is nowhere near as bad as the 75-150mm E, plus the overall build
quality is in a different league.


The 70-210mm suffers from zoom creep as well, but why Nikon chose to
use the felt strip approach on some lenses and not on others I can't
even begin to speculate. The point is that Nikon _did_ use this
approach for both Nikkors and non-Nikkors, and the competing but similar
portrait zooms from did not.

I can't speak to the non-AI copy you claim to have, but it's irrelevant.
Nikon totally redesigned the lens in 1977, including a new optical
formula, and used felt strips in the new design.

I have a long history of contact
with two Nikon designers, one going back to the 1970s, who have been
clear as to how the Series E project was managed.


Ah yes, the "appeal to anonymous authority" fallacy. How very typical.

Let us not forget that the whole point of Series E was to
produce optically good but inexpensive lenses. Kino Precision was
never a cheap manufacturer, and not a company with which Nikon has had
extensive dealings in any case.


Kino did provably produce lenses for other budget manufacturers,
including Vivitar. Whether Nikon had dealings or not merely assumes
your conclusion, and like Tokina, Kino was founded by former Nikon
engineers.

To quote one Tony Polson from rec.photo.equipment.35mm, "The lens was
made for Nikon by Kino Precision of Japan, who also made some
outstanding optics for Vivitar, as well as their own Kiron range."

The fact that the Series E zooms had full multi-coating (but which was
not fully up to NIC standards) is not in any way relevant to where the
lens elements were manufactured.


The Nikon Compendium and other sources disagree. And to quote one
Tony Polson from rec.photo.equipment.35mm, "The Series E zooms had the
same multi-coating to the full standard (NIC or SIC?) that was applied
to all Nikkors at that time."

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain
  #3  
Old July 14th 11, 11:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Mike[_25_]
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Posts: 146
Default Why no 28-300/18-200 lenses with lower f-stop?

On 14/07/2011 10:02 AM, Bruce wrote:


Anyone who thinks that SMC is 100% Pentax, T* is 100% Carl Zeiss and
NIC/SIC is 100% Nikon is being slightly naive. There are many close
similarities and few dissimilarities. However, Nano is something else
entirely, and all Nano-coated lens elements are currently Nikon-made.

T* and SMC was jointly developed by a Zeiss Pentax partnership, they
worked on several projects including Ophthalmology equipment. Zeiss was
looking in the late 1970s for a OEM maker for the planned RTS, but
Pentax was planning their LX, so they couldn't come up with a agreement.
That left Yashica that was happy to OEM the RTS.

Mike
  #4  
Old July 15th 11, 02:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN
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Posts: 3,039
Default Why no 28-300/18-200 lenses with lower f-stop?

On 7/14/2011 1:03 PM, Michael Benveniste wrote:
On 7/14/2011 10:02 AM, Bruce wrote:

I agree, it is the worst feature of the 75-150mm. However, it doesn't
affect the Nikon 70-210mm f/4 Series E, when it might be expected to.
I have a well-used AI converted 80-200mm f/4.5 Nikkor and the zoom
creep is nowhere near as bad as the 75-150mm E, plus the overall build
quality is in a different league.


The 70-210mm suffers from zoom creep as well, but why Nikon chose to
use the felt strip approach on some lenses and not on others I can't
even begin to speculate. The point is that Nikon _did_ use this
approach for both Nikkors and non-Nikkors, and the competing but similar
portrait zooms from did not.

I can't speak to the non-AI copy you claim to have, but it's irrelevant.
Nikon totally redesigned the lens in 1977, including a new optical
formula, and used felt strips in the new design.

I have a long history of contact
with two Nikon designers, one going back to the 1970s, who have been
clear as to how the Series E project was managed.


Ah yes, the "appeal to anonymous authority" fallacy. How very typical.

Let us not forget that the whole point of Series E was to
produce optically good but inexpensive lenses. Kino Precision was
never a cheap manufacturer, and not a company with which Nikon has had
extensive dealings in any case.


Kino did provably produce lenses for other budget manufacturers,
including Vivitar. Whether Nikon had dealings or not merely assumes
your conclusion, and like Tokina, Kino was founded by former Nikon
engineers.

To quote one Tony Polson from rec.photo.equipment.35mm, "The lens was
made for Nikon by Kino Precision of Japan, who also made some
outstanding optics for Vivitar, as well as their own Kiron range."

Wouldn't cross-examination of witnesses be easy if they were all like
Brucie?


The fact that the Series E zooms had full multi-coating (but which was
not fully up to NIC standards) is not in any way relevant to where the
lens elements were manufactured.


The Nikon Compendium and other sources disagree. And to quote one
Tony Polson from rec.photo.equipment.35mm, "The Series E zooms had the
same multi-coating to the full standard (NIC or SIC?) that was applied
to all Nikkors at that time."



--
Peter
 




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