More computer weirdness

On 3/31/2017 6:42 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-03-31 22:36:46 +0000, PeterN said:

On 3/31/2017 1:34 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I can't even remember if that's happened to me. Technology has been
very unkind to me recently. It's something new, and I don't like
it at
all. Very time consuming.


if you think ti's bad now, wait until Your ISP starts selling tor
personal information. I can hear them know. "I have nothing to hide."
Smart folk are already working on privacy protectors.

that's how google and others make their money.
I\
Irrelevant. Google is not an ISP.
There is no expectoration of privacy with Google. Read the terms of use.

"expectoration of privacy"??? :-)

Sounds like you're now being forced to cough up your data.

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:


What if your ISP offered you a choice of service: Option 1 at $20/month
they track your "metadata"- the websites you visit (not the info you
enter into those webpages) and sell that info to whoever will buy.
Option 2 at $40/month they don't keep any records of where you go. The
two options are otherwise identical.

what if that already happened?

https://arstechnica.com/business/201...ore-for-gigabi
t-fiber-that-doesnt-watch-your-web-browsing/
Just as it did when launching its "GigaPower" service in Austin,
Texas in late 2013, AT&T offers different prices based on how
jealously users guard their privacy. AT&T's $70 per-month pricing for
gigabit service is the same price as Google Fiber, but AT&T charges
an additional $29 a month to customers who opt out of AT&T's
"Internet Preferences" program.

however, it didn't work out quite as well as they had hoped:
https://arstechnica.com/information-...t-to-end-targe
ted-ads-program-give-all-users-lowest-available-price/
AT&T is getting rid of Internet Preferences, the controversial
program that analyzes home Internet customers' Web browsing habits
in order to serve*up targeted ads.

"nospam" wrote

| however, it didn't work out quite as well as they had hoped:
| https://arstechnica.com/information-...t-to-end-targe
| ted-ads-program-give-all-users-lowest-available-price/
| AT&T is getting rid of Internet Preferences, the controversial
| program that analyzes home Internet customers' Web browsing habits
| in order to serve up targeted ads.

That was then. This is now. With the floodgates
opened and no notable risk of lawsuits, they'll probably
all spy. Verizon, AT&T and I think Sprint came out
a couple of days ago and proclaimed they won't sell
customer data. But notice that they didn't say they
won't spy. They don't need to sell customer data.
They use it directly. Promising not to sell customer
data is a very, very narrow promise. So their statement
is essentially a confirmation that they *will* spy.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| however, it didn't work out quite as well as they had hoped:
| https://arstechnica.com/information-...t-to-end-targe
| ted-ads-program-give-all-users-lowest-available-price/
| AT&T is getting rid of Internet Preferences, the controversial
| program that analyzes home Internet customers' Web browsing habits
| in order to serve up targeted ads.

That was then. This is now. With the floodgates
opened and no notable risk of lawsuits, they'll probably
all spy.

first of all, you need to learn the meaning of spy, and second, they've
been able to do that all along. the only difference is that the law
that would have prevented it won't go into effect.

Verizon, AT&T and I think Sprint came out
a couple of days ago and proclaimed they won't sell
customer data.

for now.

But notice that they didn't say they
won't spy. They don't need to sell customer data.
They use it directly. Promising not to sell customer
data is a very, very narrow promise. So their statement
is essentially a confirmation that they *will* spy.

you really need to learn the meaning of spy.

On 04/03/2017 05:44 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Hart
wrote:


What if your ISP offered you a choice of service: Option 1 at $20/month
they track your "metadata"- the websites you visit (not the info you
enter into those webpages) and sell that info to whoever will buy.
Option 2 at $40/month they don't keep any records of where you go. The
two options are otherwise identical.

what if that already happened?

https://arstechnica.com/business/201...ore-for-gigabi
t-fiber-that-doesnt-watch-your-web-browsing/
Just as it did when launching its "GigaPower" service in Austin,
Texas in late 2013, AT&T offers different prices based on how
jealously users guard their privacy. AT&T's $70 per-month pricing for
gigabit service is the same price as Google Fiber, but AT&T charges
an additional $29 a month to customers who opt out of AT&T's
"Internet Preferences" program.

however, it didn't work out quite as well as they had hoped:
https://arstechnica.com/information-...t-to-end-targe
ted-ads-program-give-all-users-lowest-available-price/
AT&T is getting rid of Internet Preferences, the controversial
program that analyzes home Internet customers' Web browsing habits
in order to serve up targeted ads.


Thank you for those cites- the second one (ATT discontinuing the
service) is perhaps interesting. But it is from September of 2016, and a
lot has or may change since then. As the article suggested, ATT might
have been looking at the handwriting on the wall from the FCC, and
decided to drop the plan. Now, it appears that handwriting may be erased.



--
Ken Hart

"nospam" wrote

| they've
| been able to do that all along. the only difference is that the law
| that would have prevented it won't go into effect.
|

Yes, but it hasn't been until now that there's been
a clear statement that it's OK. It's been implicitly made
legal by Congress and the FCC has been blocked from
acting alone in the future. This is their chance to
standardize spying... Yes, spying. When someone
watches what I do in a secretive way I call
that spying. You can call it what you like. I call
it spying specifically to highlight what it is. If it were
on the phone we'd call it wiretapping. It's important
not to normalize such behavior through Google-esque
excuses like, "Oh, they just collect anonymized data
to enhance the fulfillment of your relationships with
brands, for your benefit."

Cheryl Sandberg of Facebook actually said almost
that at one point, saying that Facebook "enables brands
to find their voices. and to have genuine, personal relationships
with their customers" ..."to make marketing truly social".

These companies are being run by a younger generation
who, in many cases, have no ethical center and a glaring
lack of analytical capacity. They recklessly conflate vague
ideals with greed to produce bizarre, nonsensical language.
Sandberg is describing herself as a matchmaker in her
exploitation of Facebook members through spying and
targetted ads.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| they've
| been able to do that all along. the only difference is that the law
| that would have prevented it won't go into effect.
|

Yes, but it hasn't been until now that there's been
a clear statement that it's OK.

yes there has.

It's been implicitly made
legal by Congress and the FCC has been blocked from
acting alone in the future. This is their chance to
standardize spying... Yes, spying. When someone
watches what I do in a secretive way I call
that spying. You can call it what you like. I call
it spying specifically to highlight what it is. If it were
on the phone we'd call it wiretapping.

nope.

there is no wiretapping (outside of a court order).

phone companies do *not* know the *contents* of your calls (or even
with whom you spoke). they only know what number you called, when you
called and for how long. at the end of the month, they send you an
itemized list (or it's available online). it's called metadata and has
been legal to collect for something like 50 years (i don't remember the
specific case offhand).

similarly, isps do *not* know the *contents* of your internet traffic.
they only know the ip address to which you connect and how much data
was transferred, not what you did there. unlike a phone company,
however, they don't send you a monthly log.

It's important
not to normalize such behavior through Google-esque
excuses like, "Oh, they just collect anonymized data
to enhance the fulfillment of your relationships with
brands, for your benefit."

so they spy on you but don't actually spy because the info is all
anonymized. you really need to learn what spying means.

and it is often is for your benefit. some isps use that information to
improve service for their customers, such as locally caching popular
sites.

you must use cash for everything and have a stash of it under the
mattress.

because your bank tracks *every* transaction you make and your credit
card company even more so, knowing not just where & when you shop, but
they often get an itemized list of exactly what items you purchased.

and yes, they're absolutely monetizing that.

Cheryl Sandberg of Facebook actually said almost
that at one point, saying that Facebook "enables brands
to find their voices. and to have genuine, personal relationships
with their customers" ..."to make marketing truly social".

it's called advertising. it's nothing new and if you think it's just
facebook, you're mistaken.

These companies are being run by a younger generation
who, in many cases, have no ethical center and a glaring
lack of analytical capacity. They recklessly conflate vague
ideals with greed to produce bizarre, nonsensical language.
Sandberg is describing herself as a matchmaker in her
exploitation of Facebook members through spying and
targetted ads.

oh, you're having another drug-induced hallucination.

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

What if your ISP offered you a choice of service: Option 1 at $20/month
they track your "metadata"- the websites you visit (not the info you
enter into those webpages) and sell that info to whoever will buy.
Option 2 at $40/month they don't keep any records of where you go. The
two options are otherwise identical.

what if that already happened?

https://arstechnica.com/business/201...ore-for-gigabi
t-fiber-that-doesnt-watch-your-web-browsing/
Just as it did when launching its "GigaPower" service in Austin,
Texas in late 2013, AT&T offers different prices based on how
jealously users guard their privacy. AT&T's $70 per-month pricing for
gigabit service is the same price as Google Fiber, but AT&T charges
an additional $29 a month to customers who opt out of AT&T's
"Internet Preferences" program.

however, it didn't work out quite as well as they had hoped:
https://arstechnica.com/information-...t-to-end-targe
ted-ads-program-give-all-users-lowest-available-price/
AT&T is getting rid of Internet Preferences, the controversial
program that analyzes home Internet customers' Web browsing habits
in order to serve up targeted ads.

Thank you for those cites- the second one (ATT discontinuing the
service) is perhaps interesting. But it is from September of 2016, and a
lot has or may change since then. As the article suggested, ATT might
have been looking at the handwriting on the wall from the FCC, and
decided to drop the plan. Now, it appears that handwriting may be erased.

i think at least part of it was because it didn't turn out to be as
profitable as they thought it would. in other words, too few people
paid the extra fee, so it ended up costing them more to offer the
service than the revenue it generated.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:54:24 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| they've
| been able to do that all along. the only difference is that the law
| that would have prevented it won't go into effect.
|

Yes, but it hasn't been until now that there's been
a clear statement that it's OK.

yes there has.

It's been implicitly made
legal by Congress and the FCC has been blocked from
acting alone in the future. This is their chance to
standardize spying... Yes, spying. When someone
watches what I do in a secretive way I call
that spying. You can call it what you like. I call
it spying specifically to highlight what it is. If it were
on the phone we'd call it wiretapping.

nope.

there is no wiretapping (outside of a court order).

Haw! Bull****.

phone companies do *not* know the *contents* of your calls (or even
with whom you spoke). they only know what number you called, when you
called and for how long. at the end of the month, they send you an
itemized list (or it's available online). it's called metadata and has
been legal to collect for something like 50 years (i don't remember the
specific case offhand).

Wiretapping does not have to be done by a telephone company.

similarly, isps do *not* know the *contents* of your internet traffic.
they only know the ip address to which you connect and how much data
was transferred, not what you did there. unlike a phone company,
however, they don't send you a monthly log.

It's important
not to normalize such behavior through Google-esque
excuses like, "Oh, they just collect anonymized data
to enhance the fulfillment of your relationships with
brands, for your benefit."

so they spy on you but don't actually spy because the info is all
anonymized. you really need to learn what spying means.

and it is often is for your benefit. some isps use that information to
improve service for their customers, such as locally caching popular
sites.

you must use cash for everything and have a stash of it under the
mattress.

because your bank tracks *every* transaction you make and your credit
card company even more so, knowing not just where & when you shop, but
they often get an itemized list of exactly what items you purchased.

and yes, they're absolutely monetizing that.

Cheryl Sandberg of Facebook actually said almost
that at one point, saying that Facebook "enables brands
to find their voices. and to have genuine, personal relationships
with their customers" ..."to make marketing truly social".

it's called advertising. it's nothing new and if you think it's just
facebook, you're mistaken.

These companies are being run by a younger generation
who, in many cases, have no ethical center and a glaring
lack of analytical capacity. They recklessly conflate vague
ideals with greed to produce bizarre, nonsensical language.
Sandberg is describing herself as a matchmaker in her
exploitation of Facebook members through spying and
targetted ads.

oh, you're having another drug-induced hallucination.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 04/04/2017 03:54, nospam wrote:
In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| they've
| been able to do that all along. the only difference is that the law
| that would have prevented it won't go into effect.
|

Yes, but it hasn't been until now that there's been
a clear statement that it's OK.

yes there has.

It's been implicitly made
legal by Congress and the FCC has been blocked from
acting alone in the future. This is their chance to
standardize spying... Yes, spying. When someone
watches what I do in a secretive way I call
that spying. You can call it what you like. I call
it spying specifically to highlight what it is. If it were
on the phone we'd call it wiretapping.

nope.

there is no wiretapping (outside of a court order).

phone companies do *not* know the *contents* of your calls (or even
with whom you spoke). they only know what number you called, when you
called and for how long. at the end of the month, they send you an
itemized list (or it's available online). it's called metadata and has
been legal to collect for something like 50 years (i don't remember the
specific case offhand).

similarly, isps do *not* know the *contents* of your internet traffic.
they only know the ip address to which you connect and how much data
was transferred, not what you did there. unlike a phone company,
however, they don't send you a monthly log.


OOI, does an ISP know the site IP address of a site if using a VPN?


snip
--
Cheers, Rob