Opinions Wanted

On 2014-05-27 22:07:24 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/26/2014 8:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-26 23:59:45 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 5/26/14 PDT, 2:53 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:27:55 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:e RGB gamuts are now
superfluous for most displays.

Pro Photo always has been. Unless you have unusual color management
settings the wide gamut of Pro Photo is squeezed down to that of the
monitor. (Otherwise it is truncated at that of the monitor.) That used
to mean you ended up looking at Pro Photo via sRGB but monitors are
improving. My several-year-old Dell U2410 monitors are very close
(97%) to AdobeRGB.

In any event sRGB is the right one to use for posting on the 'Net......

Not necessarily: only if the recipient's browser is not colour-aware.

So, sRGB is the correct profile to post.

Yup!

Not necessarily. Try it for yourself. Some images can lose a lot with sRGB.

...and some images can appear lifeless if posted online using Adobe RGB,
or ProPhoto RGB, For web publishing or consistent online
sharing/viewing sRGB is the obvious choice, as most folks do npt have
monitors/displays capable of dealing with a profile with a wider gamut.
What you and I use for processing, and what we might see on our
monitors/displays is irrelevant when it comes to online
sharing/viewing. You might see a change when you convert from ProPhoto
RGB or Adobe RGB to sRGB, but for the average online viewer they would
actually see the sRGB as an improved viewing experience to that
presented by the Adobe RGB version.

With my LE5 export to JPEG I convert to sRGB, unless I am exporting to
TIFF, PSD, or DNG, then I will retain ProPhoto RGB, because the
recipient of one of those files might want to play with the wider gamut.

For JPEGs I produce directly from PS, I have an action which converts
from 16-bit to 8-bit, and ProPhoto RGB to sRGB.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 5/26/14 PDT, 6:45 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2014 16:59:45 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:

On 5/26/14 PDT, 2:53 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:27:55 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:e RGB gamuts are now
superfluous for most displays.

Pro Photo always has been. Unless you have unusual color management
settings the wide gamut of Pro Photo is squeezed down to that of the
monitor. (Otherwise it is truncated at that of the monitor.) That used
to mean you ended up looking at Pro Photo via sRGB but monitors are
improving. My several-year-old Dell U2410 monitors are very close
(97%) to AdobeRGB.

In any event sRGB is the right one to use for posting on the 'Net......

Not necessarily: only if the recipient's browser is not colour-aware.

So, sRGB is the correct profile to post.

So what browsers are not colour aware in this day and age?

I say that as a genuine request for information and not a debating
trick.

Not just about the browser! The Duck has written a fine explanation
within the last hour or so.

On 5/27/2014 6:42 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-27 22:07:24 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/26/2014 8:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-26 23:59:45 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 5/26/14 PDT, 2:53 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:27:55 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:e RGB gamuts are now
superfluous for most displays.

Pro Photo always has been. Unless you have unusual color management
settings the wide gamut of Pro Photo is squeezed down to that of the
monitor. (Otherwise it is truncated at that of the monitor.) That
used
to mean you ended up looking at Pro Photo via sRGB but monitors are
improving. My several-year-old Dell U2410 monitors are very close
(97%) to AdobeRGB.

In any event sRGB is the right one to use for posting on the
'Net......

Not necessarily: only if the recipient's browser is not colour-aware.

So, sRGB is the correct profile to post.

Yup!

Not necessarily. Try it for yourself. Some images can lose a lot with
sRGB.

..and some images can appear lifeless if posted online using Adobe RGB,
or ProPhoto RGB, For web publishing or consistent online sharing/viewing
sRGB is the obvious choice, as most folks do npt have monitors/displays
capable of dealing with a profile with a wider gamut.
What you and I use for processing, and what we might see on our
monitors/displays is irrelevant when it comes to online sharing/viewing.
You might see a change when you convert from ProPhoto RGB or Adobe RGB
to sRGB, but for the average online viewer they would actually see the
sRGB as an improved viewing experience to that presented by the Adobe
RGB version.

With my LE5 export to JPEG I convert to sRGB, unless I am exporting to
TIFF, PSD, or DNG, then I will retain ProPhoto RGB, because the
recipient of one of those files might want to play with the wider gamut.

For JPEGs I produce directly from PS, I have an action which converts
from 16-bit to 8-bit, and ProPhoto RGB to sRGB.


Why do you convert to 8 bit. I only convert if there is a filter I want
that only works in 8 bit.
You can also do a save for web.

--
PeterN

On Tue, 27 May 2014 13:45:24 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Mon, 26 May 2014 16:59:45 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:

On 5/26/14 PDT, 2:53 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:27:55 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:e RGB gamuts are now
superfluous for most displays.

Pro Photo always has been. Unless you have unusual color management
settings the wide gamut of Pro Photo is squeezed down to that of the
monitor. (Otherwise it is truncated at that of the monitor.) That used
to mean you ended up looking at Pro Photo via sRGB but monitors are
improving. My several-year-old Dell U2410 monitors are very close
(97%) to AdobeRGB.

In any event sRGB is the right one to use for posting on the 'Net......

Not necessarily: only if the recipient's browser is not colour-aware.

So, sRGB is the correct profile to post.

So what browsers are not colour aware in this day and age?

I say that as a genuine request for information and not a debating
trick.

http://www.gballard.net/firefox/ seems to provide at least some of the
answers. According to that site, Firefox is the only one of the major
browsers which is fully color aware.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2014-05-28 00:36:06 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/27/2014 6:42 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-27 22:07:24 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/26/2014 8:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-26 23:59:45 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 5/26/14 PDT, 2:53 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:27:55 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:e RGB gamuts are now
superfluous for most displays.

Pro Photo always has been. Unless you have unusual color management
settings the wide gamut of Pro Photo is squeezed down to that of the
monitor. (Otherwise it is truncated at that of the monitor.) That
used
to mean you ended up looking at Pro Photo via sRGB but monitors are
improving. My several-year-old Dell U2410 monitors are very close
(97%) to AdobeRGB.

In any event sRGB is the right one to use for posting on the
'Net......

Not necessarily: only if the recipient's browser is not colour-aware.

So, sRGB is the correct profile to post.

Yup!

Not necessarily. Try it for yourself. Some images can lose a lot with
sRGB.

..and some images can appear lifeless if posted online using Adobe RGB,
or ProPhoto RGB, For web publishing or consistent online sharing/viewing
sRGB is the obvious choice, as most folks do npt have monitors/displays
capable of dealing with a profile with a wider gamut.
What you and I use for processing, and what we might see on our
monitors/displays is irrelevant when it comes to online sharing/viewing.
You might see a change when you convert from ProPhoto RGB or Adobe RGB
to sRGB, but for the average online viewer they would actually see the
sRGB as an improved viewing experience to that presented by the Adobe
RGB version.

With my LE5 export to JPEG I convert to sRGB, unless I am exporting to
TIFF, PSD, or DNG, then I will retain ProPhoto RGB, because the
recipient of one of those files might want to play with the wider gamut.

For JPEGs I produce directly from PS, I have an action which converts
from 16-bit to 8-bit, and ProPhoto RGB to sRGB.


Why do you convert to 8 bit.

If you want a JPEG there is only 8-bit. If you use *Save for Web* &
JPEG it will flip to 8-bit.

I only convert if there is a filter I want that only works in 8 bit.

There are not that many of those around these days. The last ones I
encountered were some old OnOne presets which are not included in the
current version of the Perfect Suite. That said if you need a JPEG it
can only be 8-bit.

You can also do a save for web.

These days the only time I save JPEGs is for online sharing. All my
image files in LR5 are original DNG, Virtual copies, external adjusted
TIFFs or PSDs.
If I need a JPEG for online sharing I use the export dialog, and these
days I have the destination set for a folder in Dropbox.

If I am purely in PS when not engaged in a LR5 round trip and I want a
JPEG I will use my *Save as JPEG* action which will convert from
ProPhoto RGB to sRGB, and 16-bit to 8-bit, and then open the *Save as*
dialog. I seldom use *Save for Web* these days.

As you know LR5 is the center of my workflow. So, I either have my
finished LR5 edited/adjusted file in LR5 ready for printing, or
export(it is not a JPEG).
If it has taken the round trip to PS it is saved back to LR5 as a
16-bit TIFF, or PSD(with,or without layers). If I need a JPEG of that
particular file I go to the LR5 export dialog and it does all the work
for me.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 5/27/2014 10:10 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-28 00:36:06 +0000, PeterN said:

snip

For JPEGs I produce directly from PS, I have an action which converts
from 16-bit to 8-bit, and ProPhoto RGB to sRGB.


Why do you convert to 8 bit.

If you want a JPEG there is only 8-bit. If you use *Save for Web* & JPEG
it will flip to 8-bit.

I can save as jpeg from 16 bit. I have not tested the result, though.


I only convert if there is a filter I want that only works in 8 bit.

There are not that many of those around these days. The last ones I
encountered were some old OnOne presets which are not included in the
current version of the Perfect Suite. That said if you need a JPEG it
can only be 8-bit.

You can also do a save for web.

These days the only time I save JPEGs is for online sharing. All my
image files in LR5 are original DNG, Virtual copies, external adjusted
TIFFs or PSDs.
If I need a JPEG for online sharing I use the export dialog, and these
days I have the destination set for a folder in Dropbox.

If I am purely in PS when not engaged in a LR5 round trip and I want a
JPEG I will use my *Save as JPEG* action which will convert from
ProPhoto RGB to sRGB, and 16-bit to 8-bit, and then open the *Save as*
dialog. I seldom use *Save for Web* these days.

why not?
When I save for digital competitions, I don't use save for web, either.
But, outside of habit, what is the downside?


As you know LR5 is the center of my workflow. So, I either have my
finished LR5 edited/adjusted file in LR5 ready for printing, or
export(it is not a JPEG).
If it has taken the round trip to PS it is saved back to LR5 as a 16-bit
TIFF, or PSD(with,or without layers). If I need a JPEG of that
particular file I go to the LR5 export dialog and it does all the work
for me.



--
PeterN

On 2014-05-28 02:26:39 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/27/2014 10:10 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-28 00:36:06 +0000, PeterN said:

snip

For JPEGs I produce directly from PS, I have an action which converts
from 16-bit to 8-bit, and ProPhoto RGB to sRGB.


Why do you convert to 8 bit.

If you want a JPEG there is only 8-bit. If you use *Save for Web* & JPEG
it will flip to 8-bit.

I can save as jpeg from 16 bit. I have not tested the result, though.

....and what exactly does the PS *Save* dialog tell you when you try to do that?
Mine tells me: "File must be saved as a copy with this selection."
The next step in that dialog will give you the following message:
"Preview and file size are only available for 8-bit images, more
previewing options are available in Save For Web."

While there is nothing wrong with that, I prefer to stick with my
method, using my conversion action, or LR5 export. I will twist your
arm no more.

I only convert if there is a filter I want that only works in 8 bit.

There are not that many of those around these days. The last ones I
encountered were some old OnOne presets which are not included in the
current version of the Perfect Suite. That said if you need a JPEG it
can only be 8-bit.

You can also do a save for web.

These days the only time I save JPEGs is for online sharing. All my
image files in LR5 are original DNG, Virtual copies, external adjusted
TIFFs or PSDs.
If I need a JPEG for online sharing I use the export dialog, and these
days I have the destination set for a folder in Dropbox.

If I am purely in PS when not engaged in a LR5 round trip and I want a
JPEG I will use my *Save as JPEG* action which will convert from
ProPhoto RGB to sRGB, and 16-bit to 8-bit, and then open the *Save as*
dialog. I seldom use *Save for Web* these days.

why not?
When I save for digital competitions, I don't use save for web, either.
But, outside of habit, what is the downside?

It's not that I don't use *Save for Web*, I have and I occasionally do,
I am just more comfortable and efficient doing it my way.
....and now LR5 is the hub for my workflow *Save for Web* has become
superfluous as I can do all that *Save for Web* does and more.

As you know LR5 is the center of my workflow. So, I either have my
finished LR5 edited/adjusted file in LR5 ready for printing, or
export(it is not a JPEG).
If it has taken the round trip to PS it is saved back to LR5 as a 16-bit
TIFF, or PSD(with,or without layers). If I need a JPEG of that
particular file I go to the LR5 export dialog and it does all the work
for me.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 5/27/2014 10:53 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-28 02:26:39 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/27/2014 10:10 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-05-28 00:36:06 +0000, PeterN said:

snip

For JPEGs I produce directly from PS, I have an action which converts
from 16-bit to 8-bit, and ProPhoto RGB to sRGB.


Why do you convert to 8 bit.

If you want a JPEG there is only 8-bit. If you use *Save for Web* & JPEG
it will flip to 8-bit.

I can save as jpeg from 16 bit. I have not tested the result, though.

...and what exactly does the PS *Save* dialog tell you when you try to
do that?
Mine tells me: "File must be saved as a copy with this selection."
The next step in that dialog will give you the following message:
"Preview and file size are only available for 8-bit images, more
previewing options are available in Save For Web."

While there is nothing wrong with that, I prefer to stick with my
method, using my conversion action, or LR5 export. I will twist your arm
no more.

That's part of the beauty of PS. There are different ways of doing the
same thing. Work however you feel comfortable.

I tried a save from 16 bit mode. Don't really know if I gained anything,
except saving the step to convert to 8 bit mode.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/the%20cxonference.jpg


I only convert if there is a filter I want that only works in 8 bit.

There are not that many of those around these days. The last ones I
encountered were some old OnOne presets which are not included in the
current version of the Perfect Suite. That said if you need a JPEG it
can only be 8-bit.

You can also do a save for web.

These days the only time I save JPEGs is for online sharing. All my
image files in LR5 are original DNG, Virtual copies, external adjusted
TIFFs or PSDs.
If I need a JPEG for online sharing I use the export dialog, and these
days I have the destination set for a folder in Dropbox.

If I am purely in PS when not engaged in a LR5 round trip and I want a
JPEG I will use my *Save as JPEG* action which will convert from
ProPhoto RGB to sRGB, and 16-bit to 8-bit, and then open the *Save as*
dialog. I seldom use *Save for Web* these days.

why not?
When I save for digital competitions, I don't use save for web,
either. But, outside of habit, what is the downside?

It's not that I don't use *Save for Web*, I have and I occasionally do,
I am just more comfortable and efficient doing it my way.
...and now LR5 is the hub for my workflow *Save for Web* has become
superfluous as I can do all that *Save for Web* does and more.


OK

As you know LR5 is the center of my workflow. So, I either have my
finished LR5 edited/adjusted file in LR5 ready for printing, or
export(it is not a JPEG).
If it has taken the round trip to PS it is saved back to LR5 as a 16-bit
TIFF, or PSD(with,or without layers). If I need a JPEG of that
particular file I go to the LR5 export dialog and it does all the work
for me.




--
PeterN