My three biggest camera mistakes

On 5/15/2014 9:54 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:


What? The first bid may be any amount. It may be at the starting
price or it may be over the starting price.


My wife foreclosed on a Florida condominium. (It was not a homestead.)
The opening bid was one hundred dollars. My wife bid $101. This wen on
in increments of one dollar for several hours. We let the stupid debtor
buy in back at $$28k.

Yes unless the auction rules state otherwise, bids can be in any increment.

--
PeterN

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

what you call a starting price is also called a starting bid by ebay as
well as just about anyone. it is also called an opening bid, initial
bid and minimum bid. they are all interchangeable and only an idiot
would be confused.

this link should really get your head spinning:

http://www.charityauctioneer.com/new...ncrements-for-
silent-benefit-auctions.html
If an opening bid is too high, they won't bid. *Once the evening
progresses, hopefully the excitement of bidding takes over and they
are less concerned with a discount. But we need them to start the
bidding ASAP in the evening, so get the ball rolling and don't scare
them off with an opening bid that's too high.

Who do you think you're fooling? The above has *nothing* to do with
eBay starting prices. At the auctions described in this article, the
seller does not set a starting price. It's about *buyers* placing
bids.

it's true it has nothing to do with ebay and is about what the seller
wants as well as what the buyers do.

more importantly, it shows is that the terms are used interchangeably.

you refuse to acknowledge that.

http://fineart.about.com/od/Glossary_O/g/Opening-Bid.htm
Definition: The opening bid is an auction term referring to the
starting bid or the minimum price requested by the seller of the
artwork.
Also Known As: Starting bid

Yes. Read for meaning. It's there for you. The opening *bid* or
starting *bid* is...well...a bid. The "starting *price* is the amount
the seller has determined to be the minimum amount to be bid.

minimum price requested by the seller is not a bid. it goes by many
names, including opening bid and starting bid.

try reading for meaning.

http://ebay.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestion1/f/faq_reserve.htm
Set your starting bid at or above the minimum price at which you'll
sell. The cleanest and simplest way to ensure that you aren't forced
to sell your item too cheaply is to set a high starting bid.

You aren't reading for meaning. The full statement is "set a high
starting bid". The author is stating that the first bid should be
required to be this amount. He is saying what that *bid* must be.

and that's why it's called a starting bid, as decided by the *seller*.

here's more proof to show that people use the terms interchangeably,
not that additional proof is needed. you won't admit you're wrong no
matter what proof there is.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Take-Advanta.../1000000000279
2188/g.html
Every auction has a minimum bid, a dollar amount shown just above the
Place Bid button on the auction page, as shown in . If the auction
hasn't received any bids, the minimum bid is the same as the starting
bid. Otherwise, the minimum bid is equal to the current price plus a
bid increment.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Bidding...u-list-item-st
arting-bid-at-0-99/qaq-p/11276389
I listed an item starting bid at .99 list Ebay suggested to attract
buyers.

if you don't want to sell something for .99 cents , do not start your
bid at that price , because it can happen that somebody will be the
only bidder at that price.

this person even said starting bid in the title
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Photo-For-Sa...ture-of-a-Cat-
Bidding-at-01-One-Cent-/121341179747
Photo For Sale. Starting Bid .01 Picture of a Cat. Bidding at .01 One
Cent See original listing

Every
item auctioned on eBay is assigned a minimum starting bid by the
seller. The first bidder must bid at least the starting bid amount in
order bid on the auction.

Again, the author is saying what the seller designates (or assigns) as
the amount the first bid must be. The buyer must make a bid at, or
higher than, this amount.

four instances of 'starting bid' in the above paragraph alone!

All of which you have read without understanding what is meant.

i know what is meant. you obviously do not. you confuse easily.

you are insisting that everyone conform to your personal view on word
usage. guess what, they're not going to do that.

here in the real world, the terms are used interchangeably. that's just
how it is.

all you're doing is arguing just for the sake of arguing.

i bet you're the life of the party, correcting everyone's english.

Switching horses in mid-stream? Now it's a low starting price by the
seller, not low initial bids by the buyer.

i'm not switching anything.

this has *always* been about a low starting price by the seller.

Make up your mind. You agreed that I was correct about interpreting
your statement to mean that low *bids* at first result in higher
selling prices because they don't scare off buyers.

Now you're weaseling around and making it about the seller's action:
setting the starting price.

wrong. it was always about the seller's choice. that's all it *can* be.

Are you nuts? There are two choices involved: the choice the seller
makes in setting the minimum amount he will accept, and the choice
each bidder must make in deciding how much he will pay.

The strategy of *bidding* has to do with how much to bid. The bidder
can offer a price just over the last bid in hopes of getting the item
at a low price, or the bidder can offer a price much higher than the
last bid in hopes of scaring off other bidders.

ebay does not work that way.

no matter what someone bids, ebay will only show a bid that is one
increment higher than the current bid, so there's no way anyone can be
scared off by a very high bid because they won't know that there is a
very high bid.

only when they bid themselves will they find out the first bidder had a
proxy bid.

No, it doesn't affect the bids. What it effects is that the first bid
must be above the starting price. It may be the only bid.

wrong on that too.

the first bid is *equal to* the starting price. that's one reason why
it's also called the starting bid.

What? The first bid may be any amount. It may be at the starting
price or it may be over the starting price.

regardless of what the bidder bids, the first bid is always equal to
the starting bid (or what you call price).

higher bids will proxy bid automatically and is almost always a bad
idea for buyers.

I don't blame you for being confused. You have only your own post to
work with, and you don't seem to know if you are talking about buyers
bids or sellers starting prices.

i'm not the least bid confused. i know what i'm talking about and have
been on ebay for nearly 15 years and have been quite successful in
buying and selling there, as well as traditional auctions before that.

I have been buying and selling (mostly selling) on eBay since June,
2000. I have 315 feedbacks. 100% positive. If you have really been
on eBay for a few years, you know that the number of feedbacks one
receives can be a fraction of the number of auctions one has
participated in as a buyer or seller.

i've been on ebay since about the same time, possibly a little before
that. i could go look up the exact date but it doesn't really matter. a
few months one way or the other over 14 years is nothing.

You may have been there a year longer, but - amazingly - have never
learned what a "bid" is.

i know what bid is.

you're just trolling.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

this has *always* been about a low starting price by the seller.

This is pretty much par for the course for you. You make some
statement here that is poorly expressed, you get challenged on it, and
then you start back-filling and claiming it was "*always*" about
something that it was never about according to what you wrote.

It may have been "always about" something in your mind, but you never
expressed it that way. You blame others for not understanding what
you meant but didn't say.

You wrote: "high initial bidding prices", not "high initial starting
prices".

same thing.

Not at all. A starting price is the minimum amount that must be bid
by the first person intending to purchase the item. A bid is the
amount the buyer (or potential buyer) says he/she is willing to pay
for the item. They are not the same thing, and in a successful
auction not the same amount.

here in the real world, they are used interchangeably.

Bidders bid. Sellers set starting prices. Sellers do not bid. The
*initial bids* are the first bids placed by the buyers.

the terms are interchangeable, along with opening bid, minimum bid,
starting price, with links in the other post.

Oh, in your world a "bid" is not something placed by a buyer. A
seller can bid?

Do you really expect anyone to accept this?

the rest of the world already has, when referring to the starting bid.

why won't you?

eBay prohibits sellers bidding on their own item. It's called "shill
bidding".

true, but not relevant.

A "minimum bid" is either the first bid at the starting
price *or* the amount in excess of the previous bid that is required.
It is not "the same" as the starting price once the auction has at
least one bid made.

Even eBay lists an auction as "0 bids" when there is a starting price
but no takers.

an ebay auction says 'starting bid' and the amount that the seller
chose.

You have started a hole with a shovel, but are now using a JCB.

you're the one doing the digging.

You have the option of correcting yourself and saving face. You could
have written "Sorry, I meant 'high initial starting prices'" and not
become entangled in another losing argument.

no need, since they are all synonymous.

are you new to auctions? that could explain your lack of understanding.

I have 315 feedback reports, mostly as a seller, and 100% positive
feedback.

yet you still don't understand the term.

in any event, you are as usual, arguing just to argue and stooping to
your usual idiotic word games.

Just trying to get you, for once, to admit being wrong and to correct
yourself.

when the rest of the world uses the terms as i do, leaving you as the
argumentative nitpicker, then it is not me who needs to admit they're
wrong.

once again, what you are calling starting price is also called by many
other terms, including starting bid, opening bid and minimum bid,
without anyone being confused, other than you.

all your'e doing is trolling.

In article , PeterN
wrote:


In those studies they are talking about initial ASKING price. Your
statement was "...but high initial *bidding prices* usually end up with
lower final sale prices." (emphasis supplied.)
I guess I am picking on words.

yes you are picking on words. it's all you can do.

the terms are interchangeable, but even if they weren't, it's obvious
from context what was meant.

you're trolling.

On 5/15/2014 3:28 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:


In those studies they are talking about initial ASKING price. Your
statement was "...but high initial *bidding prices* usually end up with
lower final sale prices." (emphasis supplied.)
I guess I am picking on words.

yes you are picking on words. it's all you can do.

the terms are interchangeable, but even if they weren't, it's obvious
from context what was meant.

If I had your mind reading ability, I would make a lot of money playing
poker.



you're trolling.



--
PeterN

On Wed, 14 May 2014 16:56:28 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 5/13/2014 11:38 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2014 22:27:51 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

: : Well, it did not sell so it looks like I will still have it as a backup
: : camera, eBay automatically re-listed it and since there is no charge
: : for the listing I might as well try one more time.
:
: You'd think someone would want a used 50D. It's a good camera and
: hasn't gone totally obsolete yet.
:
: its initial price was too high.

Maybe in retrospect, but I didn't think so at the time. But I did end up
buying a lens a didn't need in order to get it a few weeks sooner. :^(

i was talking about his ebay auction, not what you bought.

any ebay item that does not sell has an initial price that's too high.

Not necessarily. The price is too high for the bidders who find the
listing. Re-listing the item at the same price may result in a sale.

and it might not.

if it was priced lower it wouldn't need a second try.

not only that, but high initial bidding prices usually end up with
lower final sale prices.

Is there any subject in which you are not an expert? Or claim to be?


H can't even explain what that statement means, or his factual basis.

I'm not familiar with Ebay but I have sold a lot of stuff on 'Trade
Me', the local equivalent. I do have some control over the magnitude
of the first bid as I can set an 'opening bid' price. I have learned
that A high opening bid scares away would-be bidders with the result
that there are fewer bidders and the price doesn't go so high. A lower
opening bid generally encourages more bidders and the final bidding
frenzy can push the price higher than if I had started with a higher
bid.

What nospam originally wrote was perfectly clear to me and as I have
already said I believe him to be right. I don't know why Tony goes on
thumping him unless it is because he can.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

more importantly, it shows is that the terms are used interchangeably.

That's a lie. It's about the opening bid, not the starting price. The
"seller" (which, in this case, is the charity that has received the
item as a donation) does not set any price.

you still don't get it.

it doesn't matter how the terms *should* be used. what matters is how
they *are* used, that being that starting bid can and does mean
starting price.

that's how it is here in the real world and particularly in auction
circles. you're the only person who is confused and having a hissy fit
over it. everyone else understands what is being said.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I'm not familiar with Ebay but I have sold a lot of stuff on 'Trade
Me', the local equivalent. I do have some control over the magnitude
of the first bid as I can set an 'opening bid' price. I have learned
that A high opening bid scares away would-be bidders with the result
that there are fewer bidders and the price doesn't go so high. A lower
opening bid generally encourages more bidders and the final bidding
frenzy can push the price higher than if I had started with a higher
bid.

exactly, and at least one person gets it.

What nospam originally wrote was perfectly clear to me and as I have
already said I believe him to be right. I don't know why Tony goes on
thumping him unless it is because he can.

because he's an argumentative asshole.

On Fri, 16 May 2014 04:53:14 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 16 May 2014 01:21:54 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:


I'm not familiar with Ebay but I have sold a lot of stuff on 'Trade
Me', the local equivalent. I do have some control over the magnitude
of the first bid as I can set an 'opening bid' price.

I've used ebay and have heard that if you put the item at a lower price then it will sell for a higher price, but I don't actually believe that to be true in most cases. Why people think it's true is because that what teh acttion houses want you to think it's free advertising for them.


I have learned
that A high opening bid scares away would-be bidders

That is true of course when/if the mona lisa goes on sale if the bidding starts at 1 UKP I'll be temepted, if it starts at 1 million then I won't be tempted. So you are right, starting an item off at a higher price would put me off, but I'm not convinved that it would put those people off that are serious about buying the Mona Lisa.

I've never sold the Mona Lisa but I believe it to be true on the basis
of what has happened when I have sold lesser objects e.g:

Anchor Winch
Arcam Tuner
Books
Brass Candle Sticks
Dive Weights
Electrical Crimping Tool
Electrical tools and fittings
Fuel containers
Honda outboard
Patchwork Magazines
Scientific American collection
Sump-sucker for changing oil
Stainless steel fish steaming pot
Christmas Tree (artificial) - 2
Nikon 801s
Nikon FM
Sony 707
Tripod
Bandsaw
Answerphone
Spinning Wheel
Metals Handbook - Volume 11
Sewing Machine - Frister & Rossman
Pelican camera case
Epson Photo R1800 printer
Dinner set, Mikasa
Booklet "The full Story of the Great Earthquake Disaster"
Mooring chain
Biscuit tins - ornamental
Rubber non-skid deck matting
Sailing Dinghy
Computer monitor
Computer, desk top
Television set
Leaded glass ornamental window pane (2)
Canon G12
Cummins Operation/Maintenance manual, B Series
Cummins Operation/Maintenance manual, N14 Automotive
Nikon binocular microscope with camera attachment
Nikon ring flash
Lever-arch file binders
Plastic tool boxes (2)
PBR Vacuum Brake Equipment Service Manual
Sykes-Pickavant heavy-duty puller set
Stainless steel deck ventilator cowls
Ryobi petrol-powered scrub and grass cutter

A disconcertingly long list and still my house and garage is full. You
will see that my views on the relation between opening bid and sale
price has been derived from not entirely trivial experience.


with the result
that there are fewer bidders and the price doesn't go so high.

I do not believe that to be true, and there;'s little real world evidence to show it's true.

I don't have firm data from the sales of the above but I do have a
firm impression. The bidding on Trade Me is published as it progresses
and anyone sufficiently keen could collect and analyse the necessary
data, but I have better things to do.

The recent auction of the Hasselblad "Moon Camera" ptovide that as if they wanted it to reach maxuim price why wasn't the staring bid.
They put a high startign price on it NOT a low one.

http://www.popphoto.com/news/2014/03...900000-auction


That's not a typical item. Besides, it's only the one carefully
selected item.


A lower
opening bid generally encourages more bidders and the final bidding
frenzy can push the price higher than if I had started with a higher
bid.
r
it can, but rarely does.


What nospam originally wrote was perfectly clear to me and as I have
already said I believe him to be right. I don't know why Tony goes on
thumping him unless it is because he can.

It might have been clear but not true in the majority of case, it might even work for very small value items bt I still doubt it.

But if anyone is serious about proving it then you need say two DLSRs
lest say worth about 1,000 of whatever currency, then yuo offer one with a low starting bid and the other with a high one and see which sells for the highest price/bid.

Even that would not have a high statistical validity.

One of the big reasons for using a low starting price on ebay is because ebay charges less for low starting price items.

That isn't the case for Trade Me.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 05/13/2014 08:57 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

Maybe in retrospect, but I didn't think so at the time. But I did end up
buying a lens a didn't need in order to get it a few weeks sooner. :^(

i was talking about his ebay auction, not what you bought.

any ebay item that does not sell has an initial price that's too high.

Not necessarily. The price is too high for the bidders who find the
listing. Re-listing the item at the same price may result in a sale.




The first listing I put the price on the high side.

I reduced it by $50 for the second try


and now on the third try another $50 reduction and it's getting bids.
The auction will end in a few minutes.

If it had not gotten bids this time I was going to just keep the camera
as a spare.