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#21
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Jerk "pro" photographers
"Angela M. Cable" wrote
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ What, no barbwire? You're not really from Wyoming now, are ya? "We don't have much use for reality out here" Wyoming rancher -- Anne Proulx -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ |
#22
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Jerk "pro" photographers
"Angela M. Cable" wrote
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ What, no barbwire? You're not really from Wyoming now, are ya? "We don't have much use for reality out here" Wyoming rancher -- Anne Proulx -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ |
#23
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Jerk "pro" photographers
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
"Angela M. Cable" wrote http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ What, no barbwire? You're not really from Wyoming now, are ya? Are you trying to actively demonstrate that you are composed of 75% water? -- Angela M. Cable Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and mo http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ |
#24
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Jerk "pro" photographers
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
"Angela M. Cable" wrote http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ What, no barbwire? You're not really from Wyoming now, are ya? Are you trying to actively demonstrate that you are composed of 75% water? -- Angela M. Cable Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source: http://www.neocognition.com/ PSP Tutorial Links: http://www.psplinks.com/ 5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and mo http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/ |
#26
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Jerk "pro" photographers
Roger,
I've usually always watch for your posts...I always look forward to reading them since you clearly have a "right mind" perspective if I might say so. Interesting experience and not surprising. I found that when I was active in a few of the "pro" orgs, the orgs were dominated by folks who were quite self-absorbed and only in it for themselves. The type of people who would criticize the aspiring photographer's wonderful work unfairly in a supposed professional portfolio review. All the while I see some of their work of lesser quality published all the time due to the longevity of their relationships and the usual cronyism in the industry. I no longer belong to these "pro" organizations as I have found that one doesn't need them and I have also found that the successful photographers I respect the most have done quite well without these "pro" organizations. My mentor was an exception to this before he and his wife passed away a few years ago. After all...the technical definition of a "Professional" is someone with a PHD...thus I always lower case "pro" when referring to "professional photographers". Just my two cents...which will probably result in a total lambasting up here. But as things go, I was taught by a man who always made these same pro's real angry when he would set them straight in the columns he wrote. Interestingly, I have seen a few mainstreamers up here on this board who spout out their opinions with the same irreverence as the photographer you dealt with. In particular this type of thing happened a while back regarding a startup magazine effort, in which I was accused of being the publisher when I defended the concept (which by the way modeled the exact concept of one of the supposedly "reputable" nature magazines...which happens to be controlled and published by the supposed "Pro's". This startup effort by the way was quite well done on it's first issue and accepted by the largest publishing channel in the country that only a "Pro" would associate themself with. Far as I am concerned there is only one type of photographer...the kind who cares about the world and enjoys photography for the sake of the personal meaning derived from the experience. This is a perspective my mentor taught me prior to his death...something that the "Pro" you ran into was out of touch with. This supposed pro was probably a former Enron executive or some such thing. Regards... On 7/26/04 7:43 AM, in article , "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" wrote: Hi, I need to vent a little. I just returned from Grand Teton National Park and had a wonderful time, spectacular weather (meaning a great storm then clearing clouds to make it interesting). I saw moose every day, along with deer, elk coyotes, bald eagles, osprey, etc. I was imaging with my 4x5 and with digital from wide to long telephoto. Multiple times, other amateurs would generally ask if they were in the way of a shot, or if they were, they all quickly moved when I said something. Everyone was very nice. Except "The Pro." I was at Oxbow Bend the morning after the storm, I with clearing fog and clouds just after sunrise. It was one of the prettiest mornings I've ever seen there, and I've seen dozens. I had the 4x5 set up very close to the bushes, so there is plenty of room all around and there are only a couple of other people there. Two women stop, and approach my area. One is dressed very nice, the other has a camera in here hand (looked like a high-end 35mm body). She points to a spot in front of my camera. I have the dark slide pulled on the 4x5 and am ready to trip the shutter. These two people move into the camera field of view, which was relatively narrow as I was using a 210mm lens. I explained that they were in my field of view and I was about the take a picture. The woman with the camera said: "I am a professional photographer and am getting paid to do a shoot." I said "common courtesy would say you should wait until I am done. There are plenty of spots to photograph here." She responded: "This is a public park and I am a professional, I can go where I want." They proceeded to stay in my field of view while she photographed the other woman. She would not give me her name. I called her a jerk and said no real professional photographer would act this way. I had to wait until they were finished before I could shoot again. Fortunately, the clouds and light were not changing fast, so I got good images, just not one of those I was planning. They continued shooting at other places along Oxbow Bend so it shows that my spot was not the only location, even for the "pro." While I did not let the incident ruin my day, I wonder what I might have done differently. Next time, as soon as there might appear to be a problem, I think I will act interested that they are a pro and get their name and a card before a confrontation starts. Do "pros" shooting models need a license in the park? I would report them to the park service, but I don't think it would do any good. Roger http://www.clarkvision.com |
#27
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Jerk "pro" photographers
I enjoyed reading this post, Roger's points all ring true. The traits
mentioned are probably not confined to the "pro". I am an amateur photographer, and the same sort of behaviour can be found among non "pros". Although my local club are a pretty laid-back bunch and are all in the organisation for fun and enjoyment, I do come across the "would-be" pro from time to time. Having said that, I also come across many exceptional professional photographers who have similar qualities to the chap you describe as your mentor. I have been inspired by their unselfish and unpretentious sharing of knowledge and experience and a willingness to put themselves out to help others, including amateurs, improve their techniques. I could name many, but Laurie Campbell and David Eustace have perhaps made the strongest impression, by being what I consider *true* professionals.... having the knowledge, attitude and manners which impresses others in a positive way. Dennis "Information" wrote in message ... Roger, I've usually always watch for your posts...I always look forward to reading them since you clearly have a "right mind" perspective if I might say so. Interesting experience and not surprising. I found that when I was active in a few of the "pro" orgs, the orgs were dominated by folks who were quite self-absorbed and only in it for themselves. The type of people who would criticize the aspiring photographer's wonderful work unfairly in a supposed professional portfolio review. All the while I see some of their work of lesser quality published all the time due to the longevity of their relationships and the usual cronyism in the industry. I no longer belong to these "pro" organizations as I have found that one doesn't need them and I have also found that the successful photographers I respect the most have done quite well without these "pro" organizations. My mentor was an exception to this before he and his wife passed away a few years ago. After all...the technical definition of a "Professional" is someone with a PHD...thus I always lower case "pro" when referring to "professional photographers". Just my two cents...which will probably result in a total lambasting up here. But as things go, I was taught by a man who always made these same pro's real angry when he would set them straight in the columns he wrote. Interestingly, I have seen a few mainstreamers up here on this board who spout out their opinions with the same irreverence as the photographer you dealt with. In particular this type of thing happened a while back regarding a startup magazine effort, in which I was accused of being the publisher when I defended the concept (which by the way modeled the exact concept of one of the supposedly "reputable" nature magazines...which happens to be controlled and published by the supposed "Pro's". This startup effort by the way was quite well done on it's first issue and accepted by the largest publishing channel in the country that only a "Pro" would associate themself with. Far as I am concerned there is only one type of photographer...the kind who cares about the world and enjoys photography for the sake of the personal meaning derived from the experience. This is a perspective my mentor taught me prior to his death...something that the "Pro" you ran into was out of touch with. This supposed pro was probably a former Enron executive or some such thing. Regards... On 7/26/04 7:43 AM, in article , "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" wrote: Hi, I need to vent a little. I just returned from Grand Teton National Park and had a wonderful time, spectacular weather (meaning a great storm then clearing clouds to make it interesting). I saw moose every day, along with deer, elk coyotes, bald eagles, osprey, etc. I was imaging with my 4x5 and with digital from wide to long telephoto. Multiple times, other amateurs would generally ask if they were in the way of a shot, or if they were, they all quickly moved when I said something. Everyone was very nice. Except "The Pro." I was at Oxbow Bend the morning after the storm, I with clearing fog and clouds just after sunrise. It was one of the prettiest mornings I've ever seen there, and I've seen dozens. I had the 4x5 set up very close to the bushes, so there is plenty of room all around and there are only a couple of other people there. Two women stop, and approach my area. One is dressed very nice, the other has a camera in here hand (looked like a high-end 35mm body). She points to a spot in front of my camera. I have the dark slide pulled on the 4x5 and am ready to trip the shutter. These two people move into the camera field of view, which was relatively narrow as I was using a 210mm lens. I explained that they were in my field of view and I was about the take a picture. The woman with the camera said: "I am a professional photographer and am getting paid to do a shoot." I said "common courtesy would say you should wait until I am done. There are plenty of spots to photograph here." She responded: "This is a public park and I am a professional, I can go where I want." They proceeded to stay in my field of view while she photographed the other woman. She would not give me her name. I called her a jerk and said no real professional photographer would act this way. I had to wait until they were finished before I could shoot again. Fortunately, the clouds and light were not changing fast, so I got good images, just not one of those I was planning. They continued shooting at other places along Oxbow Bend so it shows that my spot was not the only location, even for the "pro." While I did not let the incident ruin my day, I wonder what I might have done differently. Next time, as soon as there might appear to be a problem, I think I will act interested that they are a pro and get their name and a card before a confrontation starts. Do "pros" shooting models need a license in the park? I would report them to the park service, but I don't think it would do any good. Roger http://www.clarkvision.com |
#28
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Jerk "pro" photographers
I enjoyed reading this post, Roger's points all ring true. The traits
mentioned are probably not confined to the "pro". I am an amateur photographer, and the same sort of behaviour can be found among non "pros". Although my local club are a pretty laid-back bunch and are all in the organisation for fun and enjoyment, I do come across the "would-be" pro from time to time. Having said that, I also come across many exceptional professional photographers who have similar qualities to the chap you describe as your mentor. I have been inspired by their unselfish and unpretentious sharing of knowledge and experience and a willingness to put themselves out to help others, including amateurs, improve their techniques. I could name many, but Laurie Campbell and David Eustace have perhaps made the strongest impression, by being what I consider *true* professionals.... having the knowledge, attitude and manners which impresses others in a positive way. Dennis "Information" wrote in message ... Roger, I've usually always watch for your posts...I always look forward to reading them since you clearly have a "right mind" perspective if I might say so. Interesting experience and not surprising. I found that when I was active in a few of the "pro" orgs, the orgs were dominated by folks who were quite self-absorbed and only in it for themselves. The type of people who would criticize the aspiring photographer's wonderful work unfairly in a supposed professional portfolio review. All the while I see some of their work of lesser quality published all the time due to the longevity of their relationships and the usual cronyism in the industry. I no longer belong to these "pro" organizations as I have found that one doesn't need them and I have also found that the successful photographers I respect the most have done quite well without these "pro" organizations. My mentor was an exception to this before he and his wife passed away a few years ago. After all...the technical definition of a "Professional" is someone with a PHD...thus I always lower case "pro" when referring to "professional photographers". Just my two cents...which will probably result in a total lambasting up here. But as things go, I was taught by a man who always made these same pro's real angry when he would set them straight in the columns he wrote. Interestingly, I have seen a few mainstreamers up here on this board who spout out their opinions with the same irreverence as the photographer you dealt with. In particular this type of thing happened a while back regarding a startup magazine effort, in which I was accused of being the publisher when I defended the concept (which by the way modeled the exact concept of one of the supposedly "reputable" nature magazines...which happens to be controlled and published by the supposed "Pro's". This startup effort by the way was quite well done on it's first issue and accepted by the largest publishing channel in the country that only a "Pro" would associate themself with. Far as I am concerned there is only one type of photographer...the kind who cares about the world and enjoys photography for the sake of the personal meaning derived from the experience. This is a perspective my mentor taught me prior to his death...something that the "Pro" you ran into was out of touch with. This supposed pro was probably a former Enron executive or some such thing. Regards... On 7/26/04 7:43 AM, in article , "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" wrote: Hi, I need to vent a little. I just returned from Grand Teton National Park and had a wonderful time, spectacular weather (meaning a great storm then clearing clouds to make it interesting). I saw moose every day, along with deer, elk coyotes, bald eagles, osprey, etc. I was imaging with my 4x5 and with digital from wide to long telephoto. Multiple times, other amateurs would generally ask if they were in the way of a shot, or if they were, they all quickly moved when I said something. Everyone was very nice. Except "The Pro." I was at Oxbow Bend the morning after the storm, I with clearing fog and clouds just after sunrise. It was one of the prettiest mornings I've ever seen there, and I've seen dozens. I had the 4x5 set up very close to the bushes, so there is plenty of room all around and there are only a couple of other people there. Two women stop, and approach my area. One is dressed very nice, the other has a camera in here hand (looked like a high-end 35mm body). She points to a spot in front of my camera. I have the dark slide pulled on the 4x5 and am ready to trip the shutter. These two people move into the camera field of view, which was relatively narrow as I was using a 210mm lens. I explained that they were in my field of view and I was about the take a picture. The woman with the camera said: "I am a professional photographer and am getting paid to do a shoot." I said "common courtesy would say you should wait until I am done. There are plenty of spots to photograph here." She responded: "This is a public park and I am a professional, I can go where I want." They proceeded to stay in my field of view while she photographed the other woman. She would not give me her name. I called her a jerk and said no real professional photographer would act this way. I had to wait until they were finished before I could shoot again. Fortunately, the clouds and light were not changing fast, so I got good images, just not one of those I was planning. They continued shooting at other places along Oxbow Bend so it shows that my spot was not the only location, even for the "pro." While I did not let the incident ruin my day, I wonder what I might have done differently. Next time, as soon as there might appear to be a problem, I think I will act interested that they are a pro and get their name and a card before a confrontation starts. Do "pros" shooting models need a license in the park? I would report them to the park service, but I don't think it would do any good. Roger http://www.clarkvision.com |
#29
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Jerk "pro" photographers
Thanks to all who responded. I do want to clear up any
possible mis perceptions to my post. I have met many photographers in the field, from real pros, to a lot of advanced amateurs, and relative newbies. The vast majority have been very nice and helpful. Most will usually tell about other places they've been and cool places to go, what animals they've seen, and openly talk about equipment. It has been a rare few that are otherwise, probably one or two at most per year out of hundreds I've met in the field. While the real "jerks" a far less than 1%, a slightly larger number are arrogant in my experience, but probably only a percent or two, and not to the level of being real jerks. Than means the rest have all been real nice. I think that really says something about the the people who do photography as a profession or as a hobby, and it is very impressive what a great bunch of people everyone is. This newsgroup too is one of the better groups out there with many helpful people. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples stand out and can give the field a bad impression when so many are nice. Roger Information wrote: Roger, I've usually always watch for your posts...I always look forward to reading them since you clearly have a "right mind" perspective if I might say so. Interesting experience and not surprising. I found that when I was active in a few of the "pro" orgs, the orgs were dominated by folks who were quite self-absorbed and only in it for themselves. The type of people who would criticize the aspiring photographer's wonderful work unfairly in a supposed professional portfolio review. All the while I see some of their work of lesser quality published all the time due to the longevity of their relationships and the usual cronyism in the industry. I no longer belong to these "pro" organizations as I have found that one doesn't need them and I have also found that the successful photographers I respect the most have done quite well without these "pro" organizations. My mentor was an exception to this before he and his wife passed away a few years ago. After all...the technical definition of a "Professional" is someone with a PHD...thus I always lower case "pro" when referring to "professional photographers". Just my two cents...which will probably result in a total lambasting up here. But as things go, I was taught by a man who always made these same pro's real angry when he would set them straight in the columns he wrote. Interestingly, I have seen a few mainstreamers up here on this board who spout out their opinions with the same irreverence as the photographer you dealt with. In particular this type of thing happened a while back regarding a startup magazine effort, in which I was accused of being the publisher when I defended the concept (which by the way modeled the exact concept of one of the supposedly "reputable" nature magazines...which happens to be controlled and published by the supposed "Pro's". This startup effort by the way was quite well done on it's first issue and accepted by the largest publishing channel in the country that only a "Pro" would associate themself with. Far as I am concerned there is only one type of photographer...the kind who cares about the world and enjoys photography for the sake of the personal meaning derived from the experience. This is a perspective my mentor taught me prior to his death...something that the "Pro" you ran into was out of touch with. This supposed pro was probably a former Enron executive or some such thing. Regards... |
#30
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Jerk "pro" photographers
"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" wrote in message ... SNIP It is unfortunate that a few bad apples stand out and can give the field a bad impression when so many are nice. It's a bit like aliasing. The artifacts seem bigger than they actually are! ;-) Bart |
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