Grand Canyon At Thanksgiving

I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving,
this year. This is my second trip to the Grand Canyon and want to thank
many of you for the helpful suggestions that were given the last time I
posted about going to the Grand Canyon. I also have a new dslr and have
some questions about that, as well.

For this trip, I will have 2 sunsets and 3 sunrises. I would like to
make full use of the situation and take photos at each. The last time,
I stayed along the South Rim for all of my shots and did not venture
down any of the trails for photos.

I have two topics for discussion. First, which trails are good for
taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both? How
far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need to
be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more
than 30 minutes down into the Canyon to find the desired location, so
anything long may not be doable. Is this possible?

Second topic of discussion concerns my recent purchase of a Canon
Digital Rebel with an 18-55mm lense. My question is, what types of
lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of
scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why?
If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.

Iam a novice with slr and dslr cameras and want to learn. I would love
any feedback, suggestions, opinions, on the above topics and questions.

Thank you,

Tony D. Graber
Tucson, Arizona

From: Tony Graber

I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving

which trails are good for
taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both?

If you mean trails below the rim then there are only two maintained ones,
Bright Angel and Kaibab (there are also six other non-maintained south rim
trails that were used by miners etc 100 years ago but you shouldn't try those
until you have experience on the basic ones ... I've hiked for three days on
some of these without seeing anyone at all so if you get into trouble on them
you are really in trouble).

Bright Angel is in a drainage with cliffs extending out on two sides blocking
the early and late sun for the first several miles below the rim, so it's not a
good choice for sunrise/sunset shots. This trailhead is near the main complex
of hotels, a couple hundred yards west of El Tovar Lodge.

Kaibab is a few miles to the east. It starts in a drainage but quickly (half a
mile or so) becomes a ridge trail with drop offs on both sides, meaning you can
shoot into the sun or with the sun at your back either early or late. For this
reason Kaibab is by far the best choice for sunrise/sunset shots from a trail.

How far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need
to be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more
than 30 minutes down into the Canyon ... Is this possible?

There are seven steep switchbacks at the head of Kaibab, then the trail
traverses to your right for maybe half a mile as it goes under the cliff face
of Yaki Point. Once you reach the end of this you suddenly have a great view
of the canyon upstream for about 20 miles. This first point is nick-named "Oh
My Gosh!" point and when you reach it you'll understand why. From here on down
you'll have numerous scenic opportunities in all directions, depending on the
light.

If you can extend your 30 minutes a bit to say 45-60 minutes you should be able
to easily make Cedar Ridge, which is an open area about 1.5 miles from the rim
with a pit toilet and hitching post for mule riders. You can hike straight out
the point toward the north rim (off the trail) and shoot on either side. This
is a great area early and late. Here's a photo I took from Mather Point that
shows Cedar Ridge, which is on the main ridge-line running across the frame
about 1/3 the way in from the right edge of the image where the steep part
flattens out a bit ...
http://members.aol.com/canyonimge/ga...ngstorm_gc.htm
....

A pack mule train will start down from the top of the trail at sunrise and if
you're below it and get set up you can often get a nice shot of the pack train
in the foreground with the canyon opening up behind. Also there are typically
two or three mule trains coming UP the canyon with over-night guests from
Phantom Ranch and they reach Cedar Ridge at about 11 AM or so.

One problem is getting to the trailhead early enough to start down early enough
to catch the actual sunrise since the trailhead parking lot is not open unless
you have a camping permit for the inner canyon. The hiker's shuttle bus to
Kaibab and Yaki Point usually gets there an hour before sunrise and you NEED to
be on that first bus to get far enough down the trail for sunrise. Check the
bus schedule when you arrive at the park, you can pick it up at the entrance.
You can also have someone drive you close to the trailhead and walk in earlier
if you're traveling with someone.

Also, if there is an early snow storm the upper section might be icy and
slippery early in the AM so be careful. Check it out the afternoon before.
You can rent step-in crampons at the General Store for the first set of
switchbacks, if need be.

If you're going to Cedar Ridge take food and water and plan on taking twice as
long to hike back up as you took to hike down.

My question is, what types of
lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of
scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why?
If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.

Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer
short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit
features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon
is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle
shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side
of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other
side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only
take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd
make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35.

If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel
would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent
to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly
equivalent to this.

I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.

Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses.

Bill

From: Tony Graber

I am planning a visit to the Grand Canyon the day after Thanksgiving

which trails are good for
taking pictures at sunrise and which are good for sunset, or both?

If you mean trails below the rim then there are only two maintained ones,
Bright Angel and Kaibab (there are also six other non-maintained south rim
trails that were used by miners etc 100 years ago but you shouldn't try those
until you have experience on the basic ones ... I've hiked for three days on
some of these without seeing anyone at all so if you get into trouble on them
you are really in trouble).

Bright Angel is in a drainage with cliffs extending out on two sides blocking
the early and late sun for the first several miles below the rim, so it's not a
good choice for sunrise/sunset shots. This trailhead is near the main complex
of hotels, a couple hundred yards west of El Tovar Lodge.

Kaibab is a few miles to the east. It starts in a drainage but quickly (half a
mile or so) becomes a ridge trail with drop offs on both sides, meaning you can
shoot into the sun or with the sun at your back either early or late. For this
reason Kaibab is by far the best choice for sunrise/sunset shots from a trail.

How far will I have to hike down any of these trails to get where I need
to be for good opportunities for photos? I would prefer not to hike more
than 30 minutes down into the Canyon ... Is this possible?

There are seven steep switchbacks at the head of Kaibab, then the trail
traverses to your right for maybe half a mile as it goes under the cliff face
of Yaki Point. Once you reach the end of this you suddenly have a great view
of the canyon upstream for about 20 miles. This first point is nick-named "Oh
My Gosh!" point and when you reach it you'll understand why. From here on down
you'll have numerous scenic opportunities in all directions, depending on the
light.

If you can extend your 30 minutes a bit to say 45-60 minutes you should be able
to easily make Cedar Ridge, which is an open area about 1.5 miles from the rim
with a pit toilet and hitching post for mule riders. You can hike straight out
the point toward the north rim (off the trail) and shoot on either side. This
is a great area early and late. Here's a photo I took from Mather Point that
shows Cedar Ridge, which is on the main ridge-line running across the frame
about 1/3 the way in from the right edge of the image where the steep part
flattens out a bit ...
http://members.aol.com/canyonimge/ga...ngstorm_gc.htm
....

A pack mule train will start down from the top of the trail at sunrise and if
you're below it and get set up you can often get a nice shot of the pack train
in the foreground with the canyon opening up behind. Also there are typically
two or three mule trains coming UP the canyon with over-night guests from
Phantom Ranch and they reach Cedar Ridge at about 11 AM or so.

One problem is getting to the trailhead early enough to start down early enough
to catch the actual sunrise since the trailhead parking lot is not open unless
you have a camping permit for the inner canyon. The hiker's shuttle bus to
Kaibab and Yaki Point usually gets there an hour before sunrise and you NEED to
be on that first bus to get far enough down the trail for sunrise. Check the
bus schedule when you arrive at the park, you can pick it up at the entrance.
You can also have someone drive you close to the trailhead and walk in earlier
if you're traveling with someone.

Also, if there is an early snow storm the upper section might be icy and
slippery early in the AM so be careful. Check it out the afternoon before.
You can rent step-in crampons at the General Store for the first set of
switchbacks, if need be.

If you're going to Cedar Ridge take food and water and plan on taking twice as
long to hike back up as you took to hike down.

My question is, what types of
lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of
scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why?
If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.

Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer
short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit
features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon
is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle
shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side
of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other
side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only
take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd
make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35.

If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel
would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent
to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly
equivalent to this.

I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.

Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses.

Bill

Bill Hilton wrote:
...

As always a fountain of amazing information Bill. We all thank you for
the time you spend writing really good answers to people.

Martin

Bill Hilton wrote:
...

As always a fountain of amazing information Bill. We all thank you for
the time you spend writing really good answers to people.

Martin

Bill Hilton wrote:
...

As always a fountain of amazing information Bill. We all thank you for
the time you spend writing really good answers to people.

Martin

First, don't forget that the Digital Rebel has a 1.6x multiplier
on focal lengh. So that 28-200 is actually the equivalent of a
44-320 lens.

The EF-S lens with the Digital Rebel (based on my unscientific
tests photographing a brick wall:-), is a a bit funky at the
lowest focal length. From about 22mm or so it's surprisingly
good for an inexpensive lens.

My second lens was a 75-300 IS, and I've added a 28mm f2.8, which
was cheap and is very good for low light/indoor situations.
(That's about a 44mm lens in standard 35mm, close enough to
the standard 55mm that it's good enough for WYSIWYG shots.)

Canon has announced some new lenses to the EF-S line. These
lenses are specifically for Canon digital cameras, and take
advantage of the smaller imager (the same way the EF-S lens
that comes with the camera.) The 75-300 IS lens is a bit 'long
in the tooth', and my guess is that there'll be a replacement
for it soon. But it's a good second lens, and the IS gives you
about 2 stops of added sharpness without a tripod. You do
pay a price in weight and size for the image stabilizer, though.
(I call it my "big honkin' lens" :-)

I have a bit of a gap between 40mm and 75mm (equivalent to 70-120
in a standard 35mm camera), but that's a range that I don't
miss much in outdoor photos.

Don't forget your Grad ND and Polarizer filters! And you might
want to consider a color intensifier filter.

dave

Bill Hilton wrote:
From: Tony Graber
....
My question is, what types of
lenses (and sizes) would be appropriate for taking good photos of
scenary as vast as at the Grand Canyon? If wide angle, how wide? Why?
If zoom, how much is appropriate and why? I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.


Many pros who shoot for Arizona Highways (Dykinga, Ladd, Muench, etc) prefer
short to medium telephotos to compress the distances and isolate well-lit
features. The problem with a wide angle is that the other side of the canyon
is about 12 miles away and there's often a bit of haze, so a lot of wide angle
shots look dull. You can usually get far enough back from objects on THIS side
of the canyon to hold sufficient depth of field to get this side and the other
side in focus with some compression with shorter telephotos. If I could only
take one lens for 35 mm it would probably be a 70-200. If I could take two I'd
make the second one a 17-35 or 28-70, probably the 17-35.

If you really want to shoot wide angle I'd guess your 18-55 with the dRebel
would be fine, especially since the 55mm has a 35 mm field of view equivalent
to 88 mm. The shot I linked to above was taken with a focal length roughly
equivalent to this.


I have been looking at a
Tamron lense 28-200mm and wonder if it might fit my purposes.


Should be fine. You probably don't want to carry more than two lenses.

Bill

In article , David Emery wrote:
So that 28-200 is actually the equivalent of a
44-320 lens.

... on a 35mm film camera, that is.

Roger

In article , David Emery wrote:
So that 28-200 is actually the equivalent of a
44-320 lens.

... on a 35mm film camera, that is.

Roger

In article , David Emery wrote:
So that 28-200 is actually the equivalent of a
44-320 lens.

... on a 35mm film camera, that is.

Roger