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Will need new printer



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 17th 15, 06:05 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Will need new printer

nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

The definition of "perfect" being good enough that no human could tell
the difference.

there are a lot of humans who can tell the difference between a canned
profile and a properly made profile for the printer/ink/paper combo you
are actually using.

however, the difference is usually minor and most people don't care.


It is not a case of "most people don't care" that makes
the difference. What makes a difference is the job.

If you, for example, get a contract with Nikon to
generate an advertisement, which makes more than minimal
use of the color yellow... it won't make a difference
to anyone of the poster stapled to a telephone pole down
the rode from your home is even close to the same color
yellow as is seen in the poster stapled to an alley wall
on the other side of town. Clearly if the two posters
are printed on different machines, using different paper
and different inks, all will be fine even if stock
profiles are used.

Now consider putting an insert into a magazine, between
two pages that also have Nikon's yellow. Two different
types of paper, maybe two different printers and sets of
ink. And stock profiles would probably produce a
product that almost everyone would see as two different
colors of yellow... because they are both right there
next to each other! And Nikon will reject your work,
not pay you, and never talk to you again.


those are not a 'most people' scenario.


You do see where I pointedly said that is NOT the
scenario that matters... Of course what does matter is
therefore a case of "those are not a 'most people'
scenario."

Think before you blabber so much.

the reality is that most people do not care about accurate colour. they
were happy with 1-hour photo-processing and they're happy with whatever
they get from a printer, even *without* any colour management at all,
as long as it's reasonably close.


But the fact is that most people do care. That is why a
company like Nikon is very very careful about having the
yellow exactly the same on two page spread in a
magazine. Not close, not most of the time, but exact the
same every time.

If it isn't, people will notice and people will react
negatively.

to put it another way, grandma isn't going to complain that her
granddaughter susie's dress is not the exact shade of blue it's
supposed to be or if her skin is a bit too yellow. it simply doesn't
matter.


Because she can't compare them. It isn't that she just
doesn't care.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #22  
Old September 17th 15, 06:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Will need new printer

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:32:16 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2015-09-17 03:08:57 +0000, Bill W said:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 18:16:16 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Regarding printing documents and letters with a printer intended for
dedicated photo printing, I have discovered that while printers such as
your R1800 and my R2880 and Eric's R3800 are quite capable when it
comes to printing letters, a less expensive to operate, general purpose
printer such as some of the all-in one printers are better suited to
that job.

I found that it was better to seperate the tasks and I leave my quality
photo printing to my R2880 with its more costly inks. My document
printing from my desktop, printing from my mobile devices (iPhone &
iPad) and more casual photo prints are left to an Epson Artisan WiFi
printer which cost me less than $100 at Staples.
The seperation of the two tasks has saved me considerably when it comes
to ink usage and expenditure.


I think the best option for letters, as long as you don't usually do
any color with them, is a laser printer. No more throwing away mostly
full, but dried up ink tanks from lack of use. And if you really do
need something in color, you always have the photo printer for
occasional work.


Laser printers are very nice where quantities need to be printed, but
they might be over-kill for a low demand home office. We had networked
HP laser printers at work and those were worked hard, but I certainly
don't need that capability at home. (I am a retired old fart after all)

As far as dried up ink cartridges in my Epson Artisan XP-610 goes, it
has proven to be a non-issue. With my low demand on document prints I
can print as needed from my Mac, my iPad, my iPhone, and my
stepdaughter-from-Hell can print from her iPhone, all with the XP-610
not physically connected to anything, all done by WiFi, a great way to
share a home printer. The added bonus is the ability to scan to those
devices via WiFi, all for less than $100.

...and the photo printer doesn't have ink wasted on mundane tasks.


Sure, if the printer actually gets substantial use, then inkjet is
fine, and maybe a better option than laser. For someone like me, who
rarely prints documents anymore, a $50 laser printer is the only way
to go. Even after months of just sitting there, it happily prints
perfectly clear text. That wouldn't work with my all-in-one inkjet,
and I haven't had any ink in it in a couple of years now. I just use
it for scanning these days. The really good news for me was that my
Canon photo printer sat for a few months, and nothing clogged. I was
very surprised. And relieved.
  #23  
Old September 17th 15, 06:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Will need new printer

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

The definition of "perfect" being good enough that no human could tell
the difference.

there are a lot of humans who can tell the difference between a canned
profile and a properly made profile for the printer/ink/paper combo you
are actually using.

however, the difference is usually minor and most people don't care.

It is not a case of "most people don't care" that makes
the difference. What makes a difference is the job.

If you, for example, get a contract with Nikon to
generate an advertisement, which makes more than minimal
use of the color yellow... it won't make a difference
to anyone of the poster stapled to a telephone pole down
the rode from your home is even close to the same color
yellow as is seen in the poster stapled to an alley wall
on the other side of town. Clearly if the two posters
are printed on different machines, using different paper
and different inks, all will be fine even if stock
profiles are used.

Now consider putting an insert into a magazine, between
two pages that also have Nikon's yellow. Two different
types of paper, maybe two different printers and sets of
ink. And stock profiles would probably produce a
product that almost everyone would see as two different
colors of yellow... because they are both right there
next to each other! And Nikon will reject your work,
not pay you, and never talk to you again.


those are not a 'most people' scenario.


You do see where I pointedly said that is NOT the
scenario that matters... Of course what does matter is
therefore a case of "those are not a 'most people'
scenario."

Think before you blabber so much.


i have been.

perhaps you ought to try it.

the reality is that most people do not care about accurate colour. they
were happy with 1-hour photo-processing and they're happy with whatever
they get from a printer, even *without* any colour management at all,
as long as it's reasonably close.


But the fact is that most people do care. That is why a
company like Nikon is very very careful about having the
yellow exactly the same on two page spread in a
magazine. Not close, not most of the time, but exact the
same every time.


*nikon* might care because it's their ad.

If it isn't, people will notice and people will react
negatively.


no they won't. they'll just think it's a bad print run and move on.

to put it another way, grandma isn't going to complain that her
granddaughter susie's dress is not the exact shade of blue it's
supposed to be or if her skin is a bit too yellow. it simply doesn't
matter.


Because she can't compare them. It isn't that she just
doesn't care.


sure she can compare them. the grandkid is right next to her wearing
the very same blue dress she bought for her.

most people are happy if the photo is in focus. they're really not all
that fussy.

photogeeks are fussy, but they're the minority.
  #24  
Old September 17th 15, 06:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Will need new printer

In article , Bill W
wrote:

As far as dried up ink cartridges in my Epson Artisan XP-610 goes, it
has proven to be a non-issue. With my low demand on document prints I
can print as needed from my Mac, my iPad, my iPhone, and my
stepdaughter-from-Hell can print from her iPhone, all with the XP-610
not physically connected to anything, all done by WiFi, a great way to
share a home printer. The added bonus is the ability to scan to those
devices via WiFi, all for less than $100.

...and the photo printer doesn't have ink wasted on mundane tasks.


Sure, if the printer actually gets substantial use, then inkjet is
fine, and maybe a better option than laser. For someone like me, who
rarely prints documents anymore, a $50 laser printer is the only way
to go. Even after months of just sitting there, it happily prints
perfectly clear text. That wouldn't work with my all-in-one inkjet,
and I haven't had any ink in it in a couple of years now. I just use
it for scanning these days. The really good news for me was that my
Canon photo printer sat for a few months, and nothing clogged. I was
very surprised. And relieved.


i print rarely, rarely enough that i think the inks have actually
expired, and my epson printer does not clog.

my old epson from 15 years ago did clog every once in a while but
technology has advanced a lot since then.
  #25  
Old September 17th 15, 07:10 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default Will need new printer

In article ,
nospam wrote:

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

The definition of "perfect" being good enough that no human could tell
the difference.

there are a lot of humans who can tell the difference between a canned
profile and a properly made profile for the printer/ink/paper combo you
are actually using.

however, the difference is usually minor and most people don't care.

It is not a case of "most people don't care" that makes
the difference. What makes a difference is the job.

If you, for example, get a contract with Nikon to
generate an advertisement, which makes more than minimal
use of the color yellow... it won't make a difference
to anyone of the poster stapled to a telephone pole down
the rode from your home is even close to the same color
yellow as is seen in the poster stapled to an alley wall
on the other side of town. Clearly if the two posters
are printed on different machines, using different paper
and different inks, all will be fine even if stock
profiles are used.

Now consider putting an insert into a magazine, between
two pages that also have Nikon's yellow. Two different
types of paper, maybe two different printers and sets of
ink. And stock profiles would probably produce a
product that almost everyone would see as two different
colors of yellow... because they are both right there
next to each other! And Nikon will reject your work,
not pay you, and never talk to you again.

those are not a 'most people' scenario.


You do see where I pointedly said that is NOT the
scenario that matters... Of course what does matter is
therefore a case of "those are not a 'most people'
scenario."

Think before you blabber so much.


i have been.

perhaps you ought to try it.

the reality is that most people do not care about accurate colour. they
were happy with 1-hour photo-processing and they're happy with whatever
they get from a printer, even *without* any colour management at all,
as long as it's reasonably close.


But the fact is that most people do care. That is why a
company like Nikon is very very careful about having the
yellow exactly the same on two page spread in a
magazine. Not close, not most of the time, but exact the
same every time.


*nikon* might care because it's their ad.


Signature colors are considered to be IP these days. Nikon might be
concerned about threespassing on let's say Cat's yellow...

If it isn't, people will notice and people will react
negatively.


no they won't. they'll just think it's a bad print run and move on.

to put it another way, grandma isn't going to complain that her
granddaughter susie's dress is not the exact shade of blue it's
supposed to be or if her skin is a bit too yellow. it simply doesn't
matter.


Because she can't compare them. It isn't that she just
doesn't care.


sure she can compare them. the grandkid is right next to her wearing
the very same blue dress she bought for her.

most people are happy if the photo is in focus. they're really not all
that fussy.

photogeeks are fussy, but they're the minority.

--
teleportation kills
  #26  
Old September 17th 15, 07:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Will need new printer

In article , android
wrote:

the reality is that most people do not care about accurate colour. they
were happy with 1-hour photo-processing and they're happy with whatever
they get from a printer, even *without* any colour management at all,
as long as it's reasonably close.

But the fact is that most people do care. That is why a
company like Nikon is very very careful about having the
yellow exactly the same on two page spread in a
magazine. Not close, not most of the time, but exact the
same every time.


*nikon* might care because it's their ad.


Signature colors are considered to be IP these days. Nikon might be
concerned about threespassing on let's say Cat's yellow...


again, this is not about nikon and a two page ad.

most people don't care if the yellow dress or yellow flower in their
photo is not *exactly* correct.
  #27  
Old September 17th 15, 11:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
philo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default Will need new printer

On 09/16/2015 08:16 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-09-17 00:51:44 +0000, philo said:

On 09/16/2015 05:17 PM, Savageduck wrote:

My credit card billing cycle is closed, printer just ordered


Thank you very much...the $200 rebate this month sure made it easy on
the budget.

Enjoy! I am sure you will be a happy camper. ...er, printer.



Well, my wife will be using the printer. I now have the old one to
play with...it might be good enough for printing out letters...


Regarding printing documents and letters with a printer intended for
dedicated photo printing, I have discovered that while printers such as
your R1800 and my R2880 and Eric's R3800 are quite capable when it comes
to printing letters, a less expensive to operate, general purpose
printer such as some of the all-in one printers are better suited to
that job.

I found that it was better to seperate the tasks and I leave my quality
photo printing to my R2880 with its more costly inks. My document
printing from my desktop, printing from my mobile devices (iPhone &
iPad) and more casual photo prints are left to an Epson Artisan WiFi
printer which cost me less than $100 at Staples.
The seperation of the two tasks has saved me considerably when it comes
to ink usage and expenditure.

...and the new Epson all-in-one printers have WiFi and big ink tanks.


will experiment tomorrow.


Have fun.





I have a cheap laser printer for text...since 95% of what I do is just
printing out crossword puzzles...I'm still using a cartridge which
should otherwise have been replaced.
If we need a decent quality letter printed, the old Epson should be
better than that.

I ran some more tests on it this morning and the color quality is poor,
but for a text printer it's still pretty good...so I think I will keep
it and use it until the last of our old ink is used up.


  #28  
Old September 17th 15, 11:44 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
philo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default Will need new printer

On 09/16/2015 10:08 PM, Bill W wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 18:16:16 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Regarding printing documents and letters with a printer intended for
dedicated photo printing, I have discovered that while printers such as
your R1800 and my R2880 and Eric's R3800 are quite capable when it
comes to printing letters, a less expensive to operate, general purpose
printer such as some of the all-in one printers are better suited to
that job.

I found that it was better to seperate the tasks and I leave my quality
photo printing to my R2880 with its more costly inks. My document
printing from my desktop, printing from my mobile devices (iPhone &
iPad) and more casual photo prints are left to an Epson Artisan WiFi
printer which cost me less than $100 at Staples.
The seperation of the two tasks has saved me considerably when it comes
to ink usage and expenditure.


I think the best option for letters, as long as you don't usually do
any color with them, is a laser printer. No more throwing away mostly
full, but dried up ink tanks from lack of use. And if you really do
need something in color, you always have the photo printer for
occasional work.




I have a Samsung ML-2851ND. It was $99 including toner. The toner
lasted about a year and sure did save me a lot of cash.

Though Samsung toner costs as much as the printer, the much cheaper
refilled cartridges work just fine.


One think I did not even notice when I ordered the printer was that it
was network capable...so any of the main machines in the house can
easily print to it.
  #29  
Old September 17th 15, 03:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Will need new printer

On 9/16/2015 11:42 AM, philo wrote:
When I first started out with digital photography about 15 years ago I
used a Canon printer and it worked fine.

Most of my professional photographer friends told me I should have
gotten and Epson so when the Canon eventually died I got an Epson and
liked it...but soon needed a larger one.

Have been using an Epson R1800 now for possibly ten years and have not
had a single problem. Wife just bought a ton of new ink and we are now
getting the message that the parts inside are at the end of their life.
Apparently the ink pads.


It still works somewaht but we are going to get a new printer when the
ink is used up.

Epson does have a an ink pad reset utility to get rid of the message but
when I tried to run it, it will not run because " the parts inside are
not at the end of their life."


Anyway...now some of the pros I know are switching to Canon.

What's the best printer to get today. We do not need anything larger
than 13" x 19"


FWIIW I know of organization that was given a substantial grant from
Canon. They used the money to purchase Epson 2880 printers.


--
PeterN
  #30  
Old September 17th 15, 03:43 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Will need new printer

On 9/16/2015 3:09 PM, nospam wrote:
In article 2015091611570990974-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

Thanks for the advice. Now that you mention it, I recall my wife
downloading the ICC color profile from Epson. The first test print was
absolutely 100% perfect and we keep it in our living room to show people
what great results we got.

a downloaded profile is only '100% perfect' for the printer/ink/paper
combo used to generate the profile, which is the one in epson's labs
and not the one you bought.


Philo has an Epson printer and I am making the assumption that since
his wife downloaded the profile from Epson, it was probably matched
with his printer & inks, and an Epson paper. So I would guess that it
was pretty close to the one he bought, considering the generic Epson
profiles are contained in the driver.


it's certainly very close, but it only matches the specific printer in
epson's labs, the ink batch they used at the time and the paper they
used.

however it might be close enough.


You would think.


the point is that it's not '100% perfect'.

for '100% perfect' you need to generate a custom profile for *your*
printer with the inks it currently has and the paper you're currently
using. different papers will need different profiles, as will inks but
inks are usually fairly consistent from batch to batch.


That is why I have printer/paper specific ICC profiles for various
Epson papers, Red River Papers, and Ilford papers. I use Epson inks.
If I used a different printer, paper and different inks, well I guess I
would have to download specific matching profiles or generate fresh
ones.


the only true way is to generate a profile yourself for *your*
printer/paper/ink combo (or have someone do it for you).

however, as i said, downloading a canned profile be close enough.


And exactly what practical information have you contributed to this
discussion.

--
PeterN
 




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