My first digital shooting: Canon 50D

I just borrowed a 50D from Canon on Wendesday for evaluation ($1400 at B&H).
As this is my first digital camera, the comparisons are only to my film
camera (Canon 1V), so some of this will not be new to some of you.

There have been some initial problems. It occasionally locks up and I have
to remove the battery to reboot. Also, they have not yet sent me the
software that will allow me to actually view their proprietary RAW files on
the computer. The battery does not seem to last very long. It got used up
in just one day of exploring the camera in my living room, learning
functions. I guess I'll have to bring my DC-AC converter in the car with me
to recharge batteries in the field. The RAW files (".cr2") are 17-28 MB,
so I'll have to have a lot of the 8 GB cf cards.

I am able to use all of my equiupment (lenses, flash, remote cable, angle
finder, etc.) with the new camera. The controls are close to what my 1V
has, so the learning curve for functions is easy. Of course, there are more
functions, so there's still a lot to learn. And then there's the
histograms...

The 50D has the new Digic 4 processor, which allows as fast a frame rate
(just over 6 fps) with these larger files as with the 40D (15.1 vs 10.1 MP).
This is a pretty good speed for shooting active wildlife to catch the peak
of action (neither of their full-frame sensor cameras have a fast frame
rate).

I think I like the 1.6 crop factor for shooting wildlife. But my 17 mm
lens acts like a 28, so it's no good for many scenics.

I'm shooting many icentical shots with slides and digital. When I get the
slides developed and scanned I'll be able to see if the images are as good.
(Later I'll try one of the full-frame sensors and see how large all of them
can be printed). The most important thing that I expect to learn from this
is how the images look printed, compared to my current method of scanning
slides and printing. How large can I print before I can see a difference?
And this has to be done with the same subject shot under identical
conditions. I'll finally get to see for myself if digital is as good as
film, at least under the practical conditions where I use film (4000 dpi
Nikon scanner).

With my 1V I often have to put on my reading glasses to see the LCD panel
(on top of the camera). The 3" monitor on the 50D makes it easier to see
the settings without glasses. And it's nice to have the custom functions
listed right there without having to refer to the manual. I do knock my
cameras around, and it seems that one weak link is the LCD monitor. I'd
probably smash it eventually, or at least scratch it.

I had thought that autofocus would be faster than with the 1V, but it's not,
at least by my initial quick and dirty test. I set up my 600 f/4 with a
1.4x and timed how long it took to refocus on a fixed subject, both far away
starting with a close focus, and vice versa. However, it does not autofocus
with an f/8 lens, as the 1V does. So the 600 with a 2x won't work, nor will
my 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 with a 1.4x. I do use both of those combinations on
occasion. This means that the 1.6x crop factor does not actually extend my
available lens length much with autofocus. As for tracking birds in flight,
I can't think of an objective comparison. I'll just have to get the feel for
it.

This camera will only give 10,000 unique file names for each type
(img_0001 - img_9999.xxx), then starts over. So after a year or two of
shooting I'd have to rename all the new files, or find a new system of
organizing that does not allow old and new images to be stored in files
together. I currently store slides in boxes organized by location, not
date, as I plan to do with files for digital images. (Some folks organize
by subject, but this can be hard to definitively decide for some
multi-subject shots. Only location is unambiguous.) At least the 1D and
1Ds allow customized file names.

Any comments, or suggestions on how to best evaluate this camera in the few
days they'll let me have it, will be welcome.

--
Alan Justice

Alan Justice wrote:

As for tracking birds in flight,
I can't think of an objective comparison. I'll just have to get the feel for
it.

Any comments, or suggestions on how to best evaluate this camera in the few
days they'll let me have it, will be welcome.

To test flying bird tracking, try cars passing on the road.

See what high ISO gets you too.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

In article , Alan
Justice wrote:

I just borrowed a 50D from Canon on Wendesday for evaluation ($1400 at B&H).
As this is my first digital camera, the comparisons are only to my film
camera (Canon 1V), so some of this will not be new to some of you.

There have been some initial problems. It occasionally locks up and I have
to remove the battery to reboot. Also, they have not yet sent me the
software that will allow me to actually view their proprietary RAW files on
the computer.

you may be able to download it from canon's web site. also, there are
free third party tools, including adobe's camera raw and dng converter
which can run standalone (no photoshop required). if you already have
photoshop, all you need to do is update camera raw for 50d support. if
not, there are 30 day free trials of both photoshop and lightroom.

I think I like the 1.6 crop factor for shooting wildlife. But my 17 mm
lens acts like a 28, so it's no good for many scenics.

yep, it's great at the telephoto end, not so much at the wide end.
that's why there's a canon 10-22mm and a few third party alternatives.

I had thought that autofocus would be faster than with the 1V, but it's not,
at least by my initial quick and dirty test. I set up my 600 f/4 with a
1.4x and timed how long it took to refocus on a fixed subject, both far away
starting with a close focus, and vice versa. However, it does not autofocus
with an f/8 lens, as the 1V does.

if i'm not mistaken, starting with the 40d, f/5.6 is the maximum and
taping the contacts to fool it won't work as it did on earlier canon
bodies.

This camera will only give 10,000 unique file names for each type
(img_0001 - img_9999.xxx), then starts over. So after a year or two of
shooting I'd have to rename all the new files, or find a new system of
organizing that does not allow old and new images to be stored in files
together.

do you keep 10,000 files in a single folder?? if not, then the
duplication of file names isn't an issue.

group the files into folders, whether it's by date or subject or even
the file name. use something like lightroom to add keywords so you can
retrieve images based on content (e.g., wedding, football game,
waterfall), or select images based on location, lens used, shutter
speed, etc. you can even do complex queries, combining several
keywords and attributes. the file name no longer matters.

Alan Justice wrote:
I just borrowed a 50D from Canon on Wendesday for evaluation ($1400 at B&H).
As this is my first digital camera, the comparisons are only to my film
camera (Canon 1V), so some of this will not be new to some of you.

There have been some initial problems. It occasionally locks up and I have
to remove the battery to reboot. Also, they have not yet sent me the
software that will allow me to actually view their proprietary RAW files on
the computer. The battery does not seem to last very long. It got used up
in just one day of exploring the camera in my living room, learning
functions. I guess I'll have to bring my DC-AC converter in the car with me
to recharge batteries in the field. The RAW files (".cr2") are 17-28 MB,
so I'll have to have a lot of the 8 GB cf cards.

Most of my batteries last through many hundreds of images over many
days, and virtually all day even if shooting 5-600 or more. I have a
spare battery for both bodies, and I've yet to run out.

As to the RAW files, you could download a 30 day free trial of
Lightroom. It really works well for RAW processing and as an easy to use
database.

I am able to use all of my equiupment (lenses, flash, remote cable, angle
finder, etc.) with the new camera. The controls are close to what my 1V
has, so the learning curve for functions is easy. Of course, there are more
functions, so there's still a lot to learn. And then there's the
histograms...

The 50D has the new Digic 4 processor, which allows as fast a frame rate
(just over 6 fps) with these larger files as with the 40D (15.1 vs 10.1 MP).
This is a pretty good speed for shooting active wildlife to catch the peak
of action (neither of their full-frame sensor cameras have a fast frame
rate).

I think I like the 1.6 crop factor for shooting wildlife. But my 17 mm
lens acts like a 28, so it's no good for many scenics.

I'm shooting many icentical shots with slides and digital. When I get the
slides developed and scanned I'll be able to see if the images are as good.
(Later I'll try one of the full-frame sensors and see how large all of them
can be printed). The most important thing that I expect to learn from this
is how the images look printed, compared to my current method of scanning
slides and printing. How large can I print before I can see a difference?
And this has to be done with the same subject shot under identical
conditions. I'll finally get to see for myself if digital is as good as
film, at least under the practical conditions where I use film (4000 dpi
Nikon scanner).

With my 1V I often have to put on my reading glasses to see the LCD panel
(on top of the camera). The 3" monitor on the 50D makes it easier to see
the settings without glasses. And it's nice to have the custom functions
listed right there without having to refer to the manual. I do knock my
cameras around, and it seems that one weak link is the LCD monitor. I'd
probably smash it eventually, or at least scratch it.

I had thought that autofocus would be faster than with the 1V, but it's not,
at least by my initial quick and dirty test. I set up my 600 f/4 with a
1.4x and timed how long it took to refocus on a fixed subject, both far away
starting with a close focus, and vice versa. However, it does not autofocus
with an f/8 lens, as the 1V does. So the 600 with a 2x won't work, nor will
my 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 with a 1.4x. I do use both of those combinations on
occasion. This means that the 1.6x crop factor does not actually extend my
available lens length much with autofocus. As for tracking birds in flight,
I can't think of an objective comparison. I'll just have to get the feel for
it.

I think you'll be able to use your 600 with the 1.4, and then times that
by the 1.6, so you'll have longer reach than the 600 x 2, but not
majestically longer.

This camera will only give 10,000 unique file names for each type
(img_0001 - img_9999.xxx), then starts over. So after a year or two of
shooting I'd have to rename all the new files, or find a new system of
organizing that does not allow old and new images to be stored in files
together. I currently store slides in boxes organized by location, not
date, as I plan to do with files for digital images. (Some folks organize
by subject, but this can be hard to definitively decide for some
multi-subject shots. Only location is unambiguous.) At least the 1D and
1Ds allow customized file names.

Any comments, or suggestions on how to best evaluate this camera in the few
days they'll let me have it, will be welcome.

Both PS and Lightroom make it easy to rename images and tag them, but
there are a lot of other programs that do that as well. You can use IPTC
data as well as keywords. I never use camera generated file names, and
with keywords, dates and Collections, and searching by lens, body,
location, whatever, it's pretty easy to track down an image.

If you wish, ping me with an E-mail with the notation "Justice" without
the quotes. I'll set up to let it in; perhaps I can help a bit more on
the phone. (I'm in the East Bay). .

Well done, and happy shooting!

--
john mcwilliams

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:59:56 -0800, nospam wrote:
: In article , Alan
: Justice wrote:
:
: I just borrowed a 50D from Canon on Wendesday for evaluation ($1400 at B&H).
: As this is my first digital camera, the comparisons are only to my film
: camera (Canon 1V), so some of this will not be new to some of you.
:
: There have been some initial problems. It occasionally locks up and I have
: to remove the battery to reboot. Also, they have not yet sent me the
: software that will allow me to actually view their proprietary RAW files on
: the computer.
:
: you may be able to download it from canon's web site. also, there are
: free third party tools, including adobe's camera raw and dng converter
: which can run standalone (no photoshop required). if you already have
: photoshop, all you need to do is update camera raw for 50d support. if
: not, there are 30 day free trials of both photoshop and lightroom.

You have to start with their actual EOS CD (or a copy thereof on disk); all
that they post on Web site are "updaters". But all updates are cumulative, and
new versions of all the important utilities have been posted since the 50D
came out. So all you have to do is borrow any version of the CD from somebody
who already has an EOF digital, then apply the latest update to each program.

: I think I like the 1.6 crop factor for shooting wildlife. But my 17 mm
: lens acts like a 28, so it's no good for many scenics.
:
: yep, it's great at the telephoto end, not so much at the wide end.
: that's why there's a canon 10-22mm and a few third party alternatives.
:
: I had thought that autofocus would be faster than with the 1V, but it's not,
: at least by my initial quick and dirty test. I set up my 600 f/4 with a
: 1.4x and timed how long it took to refocus on a fixed subject, both far away
: starting with a close focus, and vice versa. However, it does not autofocus
: with an f/8 lens, as the 1V does.
:
: if i'm not mistaken, starting with the 40d, f/5.6 is the maximum and
: taping the contacts to fool it won't work as it did on earlier canon
: bodies.
:
: This camera will only give 10,000 unique file names for each type
: (img_0001 - img_9999.xxx), then starts over. So after a year or two of
: shooting I'd have to rename all the new files, or find a new system of
: organizing that does not allow old and new images to be stored in files
: together.

That shouldn't be a problem. Both of Canon's picture editors (Digital Photo
Professional and Zoombrowser) make it easy to rename the images, as does the
standalone EOS utility.

Bob

"Scott W" wrote in message
...
On Nov 24, 7:35 am, "Alan Justice" wrote:
I just borrowed a 50D from Canon on Wendesday for evaluation ($1400 at
B&H).
As this is my first digital camera, the comparisons are only to my film
camera (Canon 1V), so some of this will not be new to some of you.

There have been some initial problems. It occasionally locks up and I have
to remove the battery to reboot. Also, they have not yet sent me the
software that will allow me to actually view their proprietary RAW files
on
the computer. The battery does not seem to last very long. It got used up
in just one day of exploring the camera in my living room, learning
functions. I guess I'll have to bring my DC-AC converter in the car with
me
to recharge batteries in the field. The RAW files (".cr2") are 17-28 MB,
so I'll have to have a lot of the 8 GB cf cards.

I am able to use all of my equiupment (lenses, flash, remote cable, angle
finder, etc.) with the new camera. The controls are close to what my 1V
has, so the learning curve for functions is easy. Of course, there are
more
functions, so there's still a lot to learn. And then there's the
histograms...

The 50D has the new Digic 4 processor, which allows as fast a frame rate
(just over 6 fps) with these larger files as with the 40D (15.1 vs 10.1
MP).
This is a pretty good speed for shooting active wildlife to catch the peak
of action (neither of their full-frame sensor cameras have a fast frame
rate).

I think I like the 1.6 crop factor for shooting wildlife. But my 17 mm
lens acts like a 28, so it's no good for many scenics.

I'm shooting many icentical shots with slides and digital. When I get the
slides developed and scanned I'll be able to see if the images are as
good.
(Later I'll try one of the full-frame sensors and see how large all of
them
can be printed). The most important thing that I expect to learn from this
is how the images look printed, compared to my current method of scanning
slides and printing. How large can I print before I can see a difference?
And this has to be done with the same subject shot under identical
conditions. I'll finally get to see for myself if digital is as good as
film, at least under the practical conditions where I use film (4000 dpi
Nikon scanner).

With my 1V I often have to put on my reading glasses to see the LCD panel
(on top of the camera). The 3" monitor on the 50D makes it easier to see
the settings without glasses. And it's nice to have the custom functions
listed right there without having to refer to the manual. I do knock my
cameras around, and it seems that one weak link is the LCD monitor. I'd
probably smash it eventually, or at least scratch it.

I had thought that autofocus would be faster than with the 1V, but it's
not,
at least by my initial quick and dirty test. I set up my 600 f/4 with a
1.4x and timed how long it took to refocus on a fixed subject, both far
away
starting with a close focus, and vice versa. However, it does not
autofocus
with an f/8 lens, as the 1V does. So the 600 with a 2x won't work, nor
will
my 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 with a 1.4x. I do use both of those combinations on
occasion. This means that the 1.6x crop factor does not actually extend my
available lens length much with autofocus. As for tracking birds in
flight,
I can't think of an objective comparison. I'll just have to get the feel
for
it.

This camera will only give 10,000 unique file names for each type
(img_0001 - img_9999.xxx), then starts over. So after a year or two of
shooting I'd have to rename all the new files, or find a new system of
organizing that does not allow old and new images to be stored in files
together. I currently store slides in boxes organized by location, not
date, as I plan to do with files for digital images. (Some folks organize
by subject, but this can be hard to definitively decide for some
multi-subject shots. Only location is unambiguous.) At least the 1D and
1Ds allow customized file names.

Any comments, or suggestions on how to best evaluate this camera in the
few
days they'll let me have it, will be welcome.

--
Alan Justice

I normally get around 1000 photos on one battery charge, using my
350D. I don't use the rear screen very often, I disable the auto
review function, I believe that limiting the amount of time the screen
is on will help with battery life a fair bit.

When it come to comparing film to the 50D it would be good to make
prints that are fairly large, say 12x18 inches.

Have fun,

Scott

=====
The largest I can print is 13x19, so that's my standard. But rather than
print that size, I'll just size the file to 13x19, and select and print a
4x6 section of that in order to evaluate sharpness.

I expect that after I'm comfortable with shooting, I'll turn off auto
review. Thanks.

--
Alan Justice

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
...
Alan Justice wrote:

As for tracking birds in flight,
I can't think of an objective comparison. I'll just have to get the feel
for
it.

Any comments, or suggestions on how to best evaluate this camera in the
few
days they'll let me have it, will be welcome.

To test flying bird tracking, try cars passing on the road.

See what high ISO gets you too.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

I had thought of cars, but they would probably be too easy. Large, or far
away if small. Maybe worth a try.

--
Alan Justice

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan
Justice wrote:

I just borrowed a 50D from Canon on Wendesday for evaluation ($1400 at
B&H).
As this is my first digital camera, the comparisons are only to my film
camera (Canon 1V), so some of this will not be new to some of you.

There have been some initial problems. It occasionally locks up and I
have
to remove the battery to reboot. Also, they have not yet sent me the
software that will allow me to actually view their proprietary RAW files
on
the computer.

you may be able to download it from canon's web site. also, there are
free third party tools, including adobe's camera raw and dng converter
which can run standalone (no photoshop required). if you already have
photoshop, all you need to do is update camera raw for 50d support. if
not, there are 30 day free trials of both photoshop and lightroom.

I think I like the 1.6 crop factor for shooting wildlife. But my 17 mm
lens acts like a 28, so it's no good for many scenics.

yep, it's great at the telephoto end, not so much at the wide end.
that's why there's a canon 10-22mm and a few third party alternatives.

I had thought that autofocus would be faster than with the 1V, but it's
not,
at least by my initial quick and dirty test. I set up my 600 f/4 with a
1.4x and timed how long it took to refocus on a fixed subject, both far
away
starting with a close focus, and vice versa. However, it does not
autofocus
with an f/8 lens, as the 1V does.

if i'm not mistaken, starting with the 40d, f/5.6 is the maximum and
taping the contacts to fool it won't work as it did on earlier canon
bodies.

This camera will only give 10,000 unique file names for each type
(img_0001 - img_9999.xxx), then starts over. So after a year or two of
shooting I'd have to rename all the new files, or find a new system of
organizing that does not allow old and new images to be stored in files
together.

do you keep 10,000 files in a single folder?? if not, then the
duplication of file names isn't an issue.

group the files into folders, whether it's by date or subject or even
the file name. use something like lightroom to add keywords so you can
retrieve images based on content (e.g., wedding, football game,
waterfall), or select images based on location, lens used, shutter
speed, etc. you can even do complex queries, combining several
keywords and attributes. the file name no longer matters.

I have been wondering how I was going to handle keywords. Currently I have
an Excel file for slides. The first four columns are data used to label the
slide (no longer needed). The rest are keywords. But tagging image files
with keywords might be easier, if I can select them based on them. So
Lightroom does that?


--
Alan Justice

In article , Alan
Justice wrote:

group the files into folders, whether it's by date or subject or even
the file name. use something like lightroom to add keywords so you can
retrieve images based on content (e.g., wedding, football game,
waterfall), or select images based on location, lens used, shutter
speed, etc. you can even do complex queries, combining several
keywords and attributes. the file name no longer matters.

I have been wondering how I was going to handle keywords. Currently I have
an Excel file for slides. The first four columns are data used to label the
slide (no longer needed). The rest are keywords. But tagging image files
with keywords might be easier, if I can select them based on them. So
Lightroom does that?

yes it does, as do several other applications. the problem is adding
the keywords after every shoot (it's all too easy to skip that step).

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan
Justice wrote:

group the files into folders, whether it's by date or subject or even
the file name. use something like lightroom to add keywords so you
can
retrieve images based on content (e.g., wedding, football game,
waterfall), or select images based on location, lens used, shutter
speed, etc. you can even do complex queries, combining several
keywords and attributes. the file name no longer matters.

I have been wondering how I was going to handle keywords. Currently I
have
an Excel file for slides. The first four columns are data used to label
the
slide (no longer needed). The rest are keywords. But tagging image
files
with keywords might be easier, if I can select them based on them. So
Lightroom does that?

yes it does, as do several other applications. the problem is adding
the keywords after every shoot (it's all too easy to skip that step).

I do that now with slides. Keywords go in the Excel file. And I print
labels for each one. Very time-consuming. I'm guessing it will be a little
faster with digital. I haven't decided whether to add the info to my slide
database. I expect it will be easier, as I just have to do one search.
--
Alan Justice