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Nikon to announce new products on Sep. 1



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 28th 05, 06:17 AM
Stacey
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Skip M wrote:

Canon even talks about
them being suitable for digital use...


Suitable isn't the same thing as "optimal". Remember, Canon is in the
business of selling people things, They sell you a 17-40, then 4 years
later they come out with a "digitally optimized" version and get to sell
another batch of the same focal length lenses. Watch and see if this
doesn't happen.

--

Stacey
  #42  
Old August 28th 05, 06:19 AM
Stacey
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Jeremy Nixon wrote:

Stacey wrote:

You'll have to wait for a full frame camera to find out. Just look at the
examples from canon's wide zooms to see how poorly a digital FF sensor
can react to use with a "legacy" lens. At least the newer Nikon zooms are
being designed with a longer exit pupil distance so they at least have a
good chance of being FF friendly.


It would be interesting, once the 5D is here, given the poor example Canon
posted, a test with that Canon zoom compared to the Nikon 17-35 mounted on
the 5D via an adapter. I for one would love to see how much of the
problem
can be solved by the lens design.


I for 2 would like to see this done.. I'm tired of having to deal with film,
shooting with my mamiya 645 and would LOVE to see a system that would
replace it. From what I've seen so far, the 5D with canon optics aren't
going to do it.
--

Stacey
  #43  
Old August 28th 05, 06:20 AM
Stacey
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no one wrote:


Canon could make their full frame sensor more compatable with their
existing wide angle lenses, but why would they, since it would make it
harder to motivate you to buy new wide angle lenses for your new FF
digital slr.


Which "new" WA lens are you talking about that would work good with this
camera?

--

Stacey
  #44  
Old August 28th 05, 01:34 PM
Skip M
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"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Skip M wrote:

Canon even talks about
them being suitable for digital use...


Suitable isn't the same thing as "optimal". Remember, Canon is in the
business of selling people things, They sell you a 17-40, then 4 years
later they come out with a "digitally optimized" version and get to sell
another batch of the same focal length lenses. Watch and see if this
doesn't happen.

--

Stacey


Here's what the Canon Camera Museum blurb has to say about the 17-40 L we've
been talking about...
"Featuring a new optical system design, the new lens delivers an expanded
zoom range of 17-40mm, with the wide-angle-end 17mm focal length making it
ideally suited to digital photography." I wonder what their idea of "works
ok, but not great" is...
I know they're talking about focal length, but still...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


  #45  
Old August 28th 05, 01:35 PM
Skip M
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"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Skip M wrote:

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Father Kodak wrote:

Which older Nikon lenses wouldn't do justice to a
full-frame digital sensor?

You'll have to wait for a full frame camera to find out. Just look at
the
examples from canon's wide zooms to see how poorly a digital FF sensor
can react to use with a "legacy" lens. At least the newer Nikon zooms
are
being
designed with a longer exit pupil distance so they at least have a good
chance of being FF friendly.

--

Stacey


Again, Stacey, the 17-40 isn't a "legacy" lens, it postdates the 1D
somewhat.


But they still failed to design it to be digital sensor friendly.


Which doesn't explain the WA shot on Canon's website, I'll
agree. But I still want to know why, if digital res is just equal to
film,
the performance of the WA lenses significantly worse on full frame
digital
than
on film. After all, the sensor size is similar.


Yet the ability for them to deal with off axis light rays isn't even close
to the same.

--

Stacey


As Dimitri explained so eloquently. Finally got an answer...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


  #46  
Old August 28th 05, 02:05 PM
Philip Homburg
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In article ,
Gisle Hannemyr wrote:
(Philip Homburg) writes:
I'm saying that the traditional CoC size for 35mm is a lot bigger
than a single sensor element.


But the sampling theorem tells you that the best resolution you can
hope to resolve is /two times/ the sensor pitch. And in most modern
cameras, there is an AA-filter in front of the sensels that filters
out any signal with a frequency higher than the nyquist limit (= two
times the sampling frequency).


I am going to ignore the AA filter. There is basically no camera with a MTF
of zero at nyquist. Check the resolution targets at dpreview.

At nyquist (actually, slightly below nyquist) you can resolve a complete
cycle: black and white. This means that the CoC should have a frequency that
is double the nyquist frequency. In other words, the CoC has to be smaller
than the sensor element size (however, two times the sensor element size is
good for Bayer pattern sensors).

The CoC-value used for 135-format film was typically 25 µm. Because
the crop factor, the corresponding CoC for a 1.6x crop digital sensor
is 16 µm. As it happens, the sensor diameter in the 6 Mpx DSLRs are
around 8 µm, tow times that is 16 µm, so 16 µm is also the best
resolution this camera can have according to the sampling theorem.


For a full-frame 35mm dSLR, there is no crop factor. The 25 micrometer should
compared to the 7.3 micrometer of the 1Ds mk II.

I don't think your computation makes much sense: for an 1.6 crop sensor,
you have to reduce the CoC with same factor.

The pixel equivalent for full-frame 35mm is easy to compute:
36/0.025 * 24/0.025 = 1382400 or 1.4 Mpixel.

Which makes sense because a CoC of 25 micrometer is already much too big
for good quality enlargements of 35mm film.

This also tells us that neyond 6 Mpx, the megapixel game is yielding
diminshing returns.


Of course not. The CoC has nothing to do with image quality. Image quality
is ultimately limited by diffraction (assuming perfect lenses).

If there is nothing beyond 6 Mpixel, then large format much have been a
complete waste of time for many years.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
  #47  
Old September 2nd 05, 12:48 AM
John McWilliams
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Stacey wrote:
Skip M wrote:
Canon even talks about
them being suitable for digital use...


Suitable isn't the same thing as "optimal". Remember, Canon is in the
business of selling people things, They sell you a 17-40, then 4 years
later they come out with a "digitally optimized" version and get to sell
another batch of the same focal length lenses. Watch and see if this
doesn't happen.


Every company in the world is in the business of selling things, to
people or corporations, goods and/or services.

When one is able to find almost any product now that's "optimized for
digital", such as speaker wire, then it's the marketing guys doing it. I
may have even spotted a rack to hold tapes and CDs that was "digital". (!)

--
John McWilliams
 




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