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A Nikon DSLR story



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 26th 13, 02:54 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Taylor
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Posts: 1,146
Default A Nikon DSLR story

On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote:
[]
That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter
slap vibration problems as a weakness.

[]

I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can
produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with that
and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. Likely no
need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. (No, I don't make large
prints.)
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #12  
Old April 28th 13, 12:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
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Posts: 703
Default A Nikon DSLR story

On 4/27/2013 6:12 PM, RichA wrote:
On Apr 26, 9:32 am, PeterN wrote:
On 4/26/2013 8:32 AM, Chris Malcolm wrote: RichA wrote:

snip











Other than the focus issues of the Nikons and the sensor issues of the
Canon's, what else is a weakness of either brand?


That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter
slap vibration problems as a weakness.


Strengths and weaknesses depend on what kind of photography you do and
how. For example I regard not being able to autofocus a mirror lens as
a weakness, whereas most photographers don't even know or care what a
mirror lens is.


When I bought my mirror lens, that was not a weakness. Autofocus didn't
exist, except in concept.
Actually when I used the term "strengths and weakness" I was referring
to the inherent compromises that each photographer feels can be best for
his shooting preferences.
e.g. While I enjoyed the articulated viewfinder on my old Coolpix, I
became quite impatient with its shutter lag. When I got my new camera, I
had to decide whether being able to shoot at a higher frame rate was
worth the difference in cost. I decided it was not. One of my friends
decided it was. If I did a lot of sports shooting, I would have made the
same decision.

BTW for me one of the great strengths of Nikon, is that I live about ten
minutes from the Nikon repair facility.

--
PeterN


Kind of a back-handed compliment to Nikon.


Nope simply one factor in my decision, with most other things being equal.

--
PeterN
  #13  
Old April 28th 13, 01:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default A Nikon DSLR story

On 2013-04-27 15:11:44 -0700, RichA said:

On Apr 26, 9:54*am, David Taylor david-
wrote:
On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote:
[] That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter
slap vibration problems as a weakness.


[]

I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can
produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with that
and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. *Likely n

o
need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. *(No, I don't make large
prints.)
--
Cheers,
David
Web:http://www.satsignal.eu


It's raw images also look less...manhandled than the D7100 images.


WTF are you talking about?
"Manhandled"!!??

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #14  
Old April 28th 13, 04:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default A Nikon DSLR story


"PeterN" wrote in message
...
BTW for me one of the great strengths of Nikon, is that I live about ten
minutes from the Nikon repair facility.


Kind of a back-handed compliment to Nikon.


Nope simply one factor in my decision, with most other things being equal.


I'd also say not needing the repair facility in the first place would be a
far bigger strength AFAIC.
And the cost, quality, and time taken for repairs would be bigger issues in
any case.

Trevor.


  #15  
Old April 28th 13, 04:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default A Nikon DSLR story


"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote:
That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter
slap vibration problems as a weakness.


I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can
produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with that
and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. Likely no
need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. (No, I don't make large
prints.)



Gee, anyone after the last word in sharpness that they worry about shutter
vibration on *long* exposures (where the vibration is likely to be a minor
part of the complete exposure time and therefore less of an issue) is *NOT*
going to be shooting at ISO 6400 instead IMO!

Frankly for long exposures on a good tripod, possibly with a sandbag as
well, it's often easier to just use a black card and wait for any mirror
slap and shutter vibration to settle. It's shorter exposures that may be a
problem AFAIC.

Trevor.




  #16  
Old April 28th 13, 07:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default A Nikon DSLR story

On 2013-04-27 23:01:27 -0700, RichA said:

On Apr 27, 8:15*pm, Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-04-27 15:11:44 -0700, RichA said:
On Apr 26, 9:54*am, David Taylor david-
wrote:
On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote:
[] That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths y

ou
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutte

r
slap vibration problems as a weakness.


[]


I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can
produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with tha

t
and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. *Likel

y n
o
need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. *(No, I don't make larg

e
prints.)
--
Cheers,
David
Web:http://www.satsignal.eu


It's raw images also look less...manhandled than the D7100 images.


WTF are you talking about?
"Manhandled"!!??

--
Regards,

Savageduck


Manipulated.


....and just what "manipulations" are applied to RAW files, or in this
case NEFs in the camera?
All you are seeing in whatever RAW processor you are using, or on the
camera's LCD is the embedded jpeg, and those might differ camera to
camera.
Typically the RAW file is going to require some adjustment, and NEFs
are notoriously undersaturated & undersharpened.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #17  
Old April 28th 13, 09:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,146
Default A Nikon DSLR story

On 28/04/2013 04:26, Trevor wrote:
[]
Gee, anyone after the last word in sharpness that they worry about shutter
vibration on *long* exposures (where the vibration is likely to be a minor
part of the complete exposure time and therefore less of an issue) is *NOT*
going to be shooting at ISO 6400 instead IMO!

Frankly for long exposures on a good tripod, possibly with a sandbag as
well, it's often easier to just use a black card and wait for any mirror
slap and shutter vibration to settle. It's shorter exposures that may be a
problem AFAIC.

Trevor.


Agreed, but what having the higher ISO capability means is that you may
no longer need to carry around a tripod and associated sandbags! I'm
certainly /not/ after "the last word in sharpness", as the size of
images I present doesn't justify that.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #18  
Old April 28th 13, 09:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Chris Malcolm[_2_]
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Posts: 3,142
Default A Nikon DSLR story

RichA wrote:
On Apr 26, 8:32*am, Chris Malcolm wrote:
RichA wrote:


Other than the focus issues of the Nikons and the sensor issues of the
Canon's, what else is a weakness of either brand?


That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter
slap vibration problems as a weakness.


I've seen shutter slap WITH mirror lock-up blur images.


Me too. With my 500mm mirror lens at shutter speeds of between around
1/300th down to at least large fractions of a sec. Since the lens has
a fixed aperture of f8 that makes it a good light on sunny day lens if
I'm after A3 or bigger print critical sharpness. Feather details on
stationary birds for example.

I'll cheer
the day electronic sensor shutters replace mechanical ones.


You must still be using one of those old-fashioned DSLRs :-)

My Sony A77 has a pellicle mirror that doesn't move, and is switchable
between electronic front shutter curtain and mechanical. One of the
first tests I did with it was to photograph a few business cards at
the far end of the garden with my 500mm mirror lens on my best
tripod. I ran through the gamut of nasty shutter speeds with the
mechanical front curtain. As usual at between 1/300 & 1/200th the
familiar few to several pixels of vertical ghosting and smearing
started to appear.

Then I switched to electronic front curtain. Absolutely rock steady
pin sharp right down to 1/10 sec! At 1/10th sec the gusty light wind
was spoiling too many shots to take the tests down further.

I did't just cheer! I jumped up and down and shrieked with delight!
Now I can stop trying to strengthen my muscles and wallet for that
500mm f4 :-)

--
Chris Malcolm
  #19  
Old April 29th 13, 03:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 874
Default A Nikon DSLR story


"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2013 04:26, Trevor wrote:
Gee, anyone after the last word in sharpness that they worry about
shutter
vibration on *long* exposures (where the vibration is likely to be a
minor
part of the complete exposure time and therefore less of an issue) is
*NOT*
going to be shooting at ISO 6400 instead IMO!

Frankly for long exposures on a good tripod, possibly with a sandbag as
well, it's often easier to just use a black card and wait for any mirror
slap and shutter vibration to settle. It's shorter exposures that may be
a
problem AFAIC.

Agreed, but what having the higher ISO capability means is that you may no
longer need to carry around a tripod and associated sandbags!


No argument there when that is deemed acceptable, but not one in which
"mirror lockup ability" (as originally stated) is probably a requirement
either! :-)

Trevor.




  #20  
Old April 30th 13, 12:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 703
Default A Nikon DSLR story

On 4/30/2013 5:16 AM, RichA wrote:
On Apr 28, 4:40 am, Chris Malcolm wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Apr 26, 8:32 am, Chris Malcolm wrote:
RichA wrote:
Other than the focus issues of the Nikons and the sensor issues of the
Canon's, what else is a weakness of either brand?


That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you
need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the
time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light
of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and
long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very
graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an
SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past
mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter
slap vibration problems as a weakness.
I've seen shutter slap WITH mirror lock-up blur images.


Me too. With my 500mm mirror lens at shutter speeds of between around
1/300th down to at least large fractions of a sec. Since the lens has
a fixed aperture of f8 that makes it a good light on sunny day lens if
I'm after A3 or bigger print critical sharpness. Feather details on
stationary birds for example.

I'll cheer
the day electronic sensor shutters replace mechanical ones.


You must still be using one of those old-fashioned DSLRs :-)

My Sony A77 has a pellicle mirror that doesn't move, and is switchable
between electronic front shutter curtain and mechanical. One of the
first tests I did with it was to photograph a few business cards at
the far end of the garden with my 500mm mirror lens on my best
tripod. I ran through the gamut of nasty shutter speeds with the
mechanical front curtain. As usual at between 1/300 & 1/200th the
familiar few to several pixels of vertical ghosting and smearing
started to appear.

Then I switched to electronic front curtain. Absolutely rock steady
pin sharp right down to 1/10 sec! At 1/10th sec the gusty light wind
was spoiling too many shots to take the tests down further.

I did't just cheer! I jumped up and down and shrieked with delight!
Now I can stop trying to strengthen my muscles and wallet for that
500mm f4 :-)

--
Chris Malcolm


I shot through a 1000mm lens with a Nikon D300 using mirror lock up,
and a Panasonic m4/3rds camera and the Nikon shots blurred at least 2x
as many pixels. Plus, when you consider a lens is automatically going
to show as sharper when using a camera with a larger sensor (see the
lens tests on Dpreview using APS and FF cameras) the blurrier shots
though the D300 illustrate why big DSLR mirrors and big shutters are
bad with long lenses or perhaps even macro lenses.

I have shown this before. Taken from about 100 yds. The first is
uncroped. This image was hand held and one can barely distinguish the
little critter in ff.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_DSC6570.jpg

--
PeterN
 




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