"Print So Fine" paper developer

I was under the impression that paper developers affect all tones
equally, but here is one which enhances the midtones:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/photochemicals.html

Can anybody explain how this might work, please?

TIA - Phil Lamerton

wrote

http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/photochemicals.html
Can anybody explain how this might work, please?

It sounds like a warm-tone 'Selectol Soft'. Warm tone is
often accomplished with lots of P. Bromide. Lowered
contrast may accomplished by lowering the amount
of Hydroquinone.

I was taught to add a dash of P. Bromide to the paper
developer if there was difficulty in keeping highlights
clear, it is a trick that works well.

Patrick Gainer and Richard Knoppow I am sure know more.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

wrote:
I was under the impression that paper developers affect all tones
equally, but here is one which enhances the midtones:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/photochemicals.html

Can anybody explain how this might work, please?

Simple: Omit hydroquinone, add KBr.


TIA - Phil Lamerton

Omit hydroquinone, add KBr.
Lowered contrast may accomplished by lowering the amount
of Hydroquinone. Warm tone is often accomplished with lots of P.
Bromide.


Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally? The
distributor of this new developer says there is an improvement in
mid-tone separation compared to a standard print developer:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...id=00Eymn&tag=
Thanks again - Phil Lamerton

Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally?

The distributor of this new developer says there is an improvement in
mid-tone separation compared to a standard print developer:

'Greater midtone separation is the _definition_ of lower contrast,
it is just a windier way of saying it.

Warming all tones equally is a _benefit_, many toners 'split tone'
where not all tones change color equally - it is not a pretty sight.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally?

The distributor of this new developer says there is an improvement in
mid-tone separation compared to a standard print developer:

'Greater midtone separation is the _definition_ of lower contrast, it is
just a windier way of saying it.

If I wanted greater mid-tone separation, I would want _higher_ contrast,
either in the negative or the paper to separate small differences and make
them appear greater. _Lowering_ the contrast _reduces_ the separation.

With any given paper and viewing conditions, this would probably cause the
shadow and highlight detail to be lost. The only way around that, other than
heroic printing technique, would be to increase the illumination on the
prints but not increase the illumination on the surrounding mat board or
wall. This can be achieved under expensive conditions, but would not
normally be obtained in the average residence. You need precise masked
spotlights.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 07:45:00 up 19 days, 23:13, 4 users, load average: 4.44, 4.33, 4.22

No paper developer is capable of giving 'greater mid-tone separation'.
Films's curves can be manipulated to do that, to a certain extent.
Films like Tri-X and Plus-X have that property, achieved at the expense
of somewhat lowered highlight contrast.

There is so much bull**** in photography it makes me sick....


Jean-David Beyer wrote:
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally?

The distributor of this new developer says there is an improvement in
mid-tone separation compared to a standard print developer:

'Greater midtone separation is the _definition_ of lower contrast, it is
just a windier way of saying it.

If I wanted greater mid-tone separation, I would want _higher_ contrast,
either in the negative or the paper to separate small differences and make
them appear greater. _Lowering_ the contrast _reduces_ the separation.

With any given paper and viewing conditions, this would probably cause the
shadow and highlight detail to be lost. The only way around that, other than
heroic printing technique, would be to increase the illumination on the
prints but not increase the illumination on the surrounding mat board or
wall. This can be achieved under expensive conditions, but would not
normally be obtained in the average residence. You need precise masked
spotlights.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 07:45:00 up 19 days, 23:13, 4 users, load average: 4.44, 4.33, 4.22

"Jean-David Beyer" wrote
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally?

'Greater midtone separation is the _definition_ of lower contrast
If I wanted greater mid-tone separation I would use higher contrast


Hmmmm, as Slick Willy would say: "It depends on what you mean by 'increased
tonal separation". Is increased tonal separation expanding or compressing
the mid tones of the print: are a small band of the scene's midtones
expanded and well separated with higher print contrast; or are a greater
range of the scene's tones brought into the print's tonal range and
more of the scene is well separated in the print with lower print contrast?

I had taken "more midtones" = "more midtone separation".

I think I will change my definition to match J-D's: Increased contrast ==
Increased separation.

Any other thoughts on the matter out there?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote
"Jean-David Beyer" wrote
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Someone wrote:
Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally?
'Greater midtone separation is the _definition_ of lower contrast
If I wanted greater mid-tone separation I would use higher contrast
I had taken "more midtones" = "more midtone separation".
I think I will change my definition to match J-D's: Increased contrast ==
Increased separation.

Humph, I think I will disagree with my agreement with J-D's disagreement with
my original disagreement. (What's Kerry up to these days?)

I don't use the term 'Greater Midtone Separation(GMS), so my understanding
of the term and it's usage comes from prints and what is claimed about
the print.

Prints said to have GMS are low contrast with a long tonal scale taking
in all elements of the scene.

Prints that are 'soot and chalk' [to use the extreme of high contrast]
are not said to have GMS.

I wonder what DigitalTruth, the manufacturer of the developer under
discussion - "Print So Fine" - mean by the term? Forwarded this
post, see what happens.

ref:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/photochemicals.html

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

All films have slopes that vary over the scale of the negative.
'Separation' is just another term for 'steep gradation'.

The slope at any point of a fil'm's curve is an indication of the
contrast in that part of the scale. If the slope in the mid-tones is
low (e.g., TMY) mid-tone separation will suffer. The slope of TMY is
higher in the upper end of the density scale than in the mid-tones.
Theerfore, highlight separation with TMY is greater than mid-tone
separation. With Tri-X, it is just the reverse.

TMY:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...002_0507ac.gif

Tri-X:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...009_0490ac.gif

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote
"Jean-David Beyer" wrote
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Someone wrote:
Won't this lower overall contrast and warm all tones equally?
'Greater midtone separation is the _definition_ of lower contrast
If I wanted greater mid-tone separation I would use higher contrast
I had taken "more midtones" = "more midtone separation".
I think I will change my definition to match J-D's: Increased contrast ==
Increased separation.

Humph, I think I will disagree with my agreement with J-D's disagreement with
my original disagreement. (What's Kerry up to these days?)

I don't use the term 'Greater Midtone Separation(GMS), so my understanding
of the term and it's usage comes from prints and what is claimed about
the print.

Prints said to have GMS are low contrast with a long tonal scale taking
in all elements of the scene.

Prints that are 'soot and chalk' [to use the extreme of high contrast]
are not said to have GMS.

I wonder what DigitalTruth, the manufacturer of the developer under
discussion - "Print So Fine" - mean by the term? Forwarded this
post, see what happens.

ref:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/photochemicals.html

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm